sweetsunray

Agreed. George has been writing villains for decades by the time he invents LF. Some more believable upon the spectrum than others, though still a lot of fun to read. There is an evolution in the realism of characterization of villains in his work: a maturing towards the late eighties, with an exponential jump in aSoIaF even just in aGoT alone already: Viserys, Aerys, Joffrey, Cersei, the Mountain, Tywin, Littlefinger, Varys, Tyrion, ... They cover the whole spectrum of empathy, calousnes to pettiness to outright sadism, calculated cool to uncontrolled impulsive violence, machiavelism to malovelence. Both the variation and the realism of them (within boundaries of being a fiction and a fantasy world) is for me the exponential rise in quality of George's writing them. On top of that he also manages to give each of them a background that (does not excuse it but) makes it understandable why they believe they are heroes in their own stories and justified in doing what they do. This to me suggest that he did his research, not always necessary from the professional sources, but certainly some popular books on it (Snakes in Suits for LF comes to mind) and of course straight from history books. In an environment like the middle ages, conmen and malevolent personalities had their field day to rise to power: roman history, war mongering monarchs in France, Spain and Britain. There are even poems (short and long) where such characters take central stage in those times: Of the Fox Reynaert, or Heer Halewijn (a serial killer knight, but told from the survivor POV who killed him). George also initially was not sure how much magic he was going to incorporate, when he began writing aGoT for real. So, he seemed to be committed to a realistic portrayal of the various villains. I would say he did the first and the latter, but not so much from personal experience, but rather historical figures and 20th century popular books written by experts such as Hare and Cleckley.

Yup, he had nothing for Jon for those 5 years, and too much flashbacks for Cersei (KL) and Dany (Meereen) that outweighed their story in the 5 year gap present. Given that there never was much of KL-knot but there was a Meereenese knot (incuding getting everyone in Meereen around the same time) even after dropping the 5 year gap makes Dany's story very suspect of having been altered a lot in comparison to what he had in mind when he started writing after aSoS. ETA: link to post about this subject on the pinned thread in general:

No. It is a subject I read up on daily from 2011 until 2014, once I realized I had been in a relationshit (no typo) with a psychopath. He is undiagnozed, but my therapist (psychiatrist specialised in trauma) did say I was lucky not to have a child with him. She added she did not say this for custody issues, but me not having to wonder for 18 years what my child would have inherited from his dad in such a case. In other words, she was unofficially confirming it, as it is the sole PD where psychologists admit they cannot improve with therapy. That they cannot is the reason why "psychopathy" is not part of the DSM, which is a manual to diagnoze disorders they believe they tackle with therapy to a degree. ASPD is defined in such a way that it is broader than psychopathy, and thus includes individuals they hope to aid with therapy. That's why ASPD is in the DSM, but psychopathy is not. The reading and lectures I went to (including one of Hare) or experts in docus had as goal understanding the definitions of the various PDs as well as recognizing tells of any type in someone I interact with in order to avoid dramarama rollercoasters. Personally I don't care whether someone is a narcissist, psychopath or borderline, machiavelist, just selfish. I just accept the bell curve statistics behind Hare's psychopathy test: 50% of the population would score between 0-4 out of 40 on Hare's test for psychopathy. If you know that the average in US prisons is 27/40 and 30/40 means "psychopath" diagnosis, then I know that a machiavelist with a score of 15 is in their own way as harmful to me (0-4) as my ex. I don't want them near me. Even a little PTSD and cog-dis can have an impact of close to a decade to recover from. And I still unravel during pique stress moments, losing whatever I'm holding in my hands. So, the lists of "traits" are not abstract to me. I have a lot of incidents and witnessed behavior from him and others as examples. And it always comes down to one basic rule: if actions serially contradict with their words, "run"! As well as: "If you're able to predict how x is going to punish y just by the glint in their eye, you're way in over your head." The latter is why LF's "contriteness after mischief" is a glaring tell for me. It's behavior she knows of him since childhood. Very very bad sign for him. And it's why his bragging about having bed both Tully women while doing an absurd romantic gesture as well as "Only Cat" while murdering Lysa in front of Sansa are another tell for me. He said that to emotionally injure Lysa on top of murdering her, and gets his "I'm a romantic" hooks into Sansa.

Yup and makes most sense in light of Ned's repeated thoughts of Lyanna asking him to promise after he sent Jon to the Wall. If Lyanna was the KotLT, he made a promise to a "tree" (Lyanna). By the time he's inside a black cell he can't keep his promise anymore and knows he broke a vow sworn to a tree.

Another aspect tied to psychopathy and narcissism is the belief that you can control reality by willing it. This leads to what others perceive as irrational and senseless decisions. Example: you get a letter in the mailbox and believe your mind has the power to turn it into a letter telling you won the lottery instead of a bill. That's impossible of course. Once it's sealed, sent and delivered, whatever is inside the envelope is already predetermined and no matter how strong you believe your ego-will to be, it's not going to change it. You could say that his challenge of Brandon displays that type of illusion. I can just will myself to win against Brandon, because I love Cat more than he does. Since that didn't happen, his narcissistic self grandeur belief over reality was shattered. But he was rewarded (he believes he still ended up being Cat's first) which he then brags about for years to a lot of people in King's Landing. That bragging is a sign of the narcissistic injury. It's also why he wasn't crafty by using poison. Yes, he did believe he could win the darn thing. In other words, the "idealism" you perceive is "self grandeur", and him being disillusioned is "narcissistic injury"

Dramarama is a feature of a personality disorder where people have shallow emotions. So they have to "act" and tend to do so for any display of emotion they use as a tool for manipulation: lovebombing, big romantic gestures, but also throwing and destroying furniture around to indimidate. In reality it's calculated and shallow, but it comes misleadingly off as highly emotional. Narcissism is a core feature of a psychopath, and so narcissistic injury is too. They have that fully in common with a narcissist. The fake contriteness after mischief though is less associated with the other personality disorders: this is the charm and criminality component that is associated with psychopathy and anti-social personality disorder. There's just an innate drive to do what you're not supposed to do and then trying to get away with it, like they're stuck in the 2-year-old phase of "don't do xyz" and that just triggers a 2 year old to do exactly that. They are however not by definition sadistic. Sure cruel and callous in revenge, but they don't necessarily enjoy torturing someone emotionally or physically. Sadism is an independent potential component that either a narcissist or a psychopath can have. In that sense a sadistic narcissist can be worse than a psychopath. The real difference thus between a narcissist and a psychopath are: tendency for criminality, and the potential of mitigating the disorder with therapy. There is a genetic component to psychopathy that is not necessary for narcissistic personality disorder, but narcissistic personality disorder develops early in life (before 2)

I didn't propose an offscreen journey to Asshai. The 5 year gap was imo having Dany journey to Asshai after having ruled Meereen for 5 years and in Asshai she would encounter glass candles and learn of the many eggs, the legends etc. At this point she wouldn't do much with it except seeing the beginning disaster unfold at Westeros to come to the rescue. But he had too much flashbacks of Dany ruling Meereen in there that he scrapped the whole thing. He's on record of saying that there were more flahsbacks than present story for some of the adult POVs and it being a huge part of his motivation of scrapping the 5 year gap. I can only conclude this was mostly Dany's story, because apparently Jon's story ruling the NW for 5 years was quiet and peaceful with not much happening. Once he scrapped it, he ended up believing he just needed to write the large flashback as a current story in Meereen. During aFfC he still juggled a lot with that and was heavily focused on glass candle magic another way: via the Citadel... But the issues were not over with, so he rearranged aFfC and aDwD to have POVs according to geography. Once he began to write aDwD, he still ran into the Meereenese knot. Even the huge flashback story he had for Dany that he had started to rework for a prior non-geographical aFfC needed a lot of rewriting and rearranging. So, yeah, Dany's story was a big reason why he ended up dropping the 5 year gap, especially in contrast to Jon's lightweight ruling years.

No. Challenging Brandon to this absurd duel shows the psychopathic tendency for drama, grand lovebombing gestures, combined with dillusion of grandeur. And his complete revenge on Cat, Ned, Lysa, etc reveals huge narcissistic injury.

I don't think so. One of Cat's earliest mentioned memories of him are in the capter in aGoT where he lies about the dagger. She thinks of him as a sly child who got into mischief but then uses his charm to get out from under the consequences. It is a gift, a psychopath's gift. It has nothing to do with "idealism".

Asshai may be related to Dany's end game or ending. But the path to it was always adaptable to George except for some crucial events joining up again. So, going to Asshai before the endgame or thinking of going there to birth an army of dragons at the end would work for George either way. So, I don't disagree with your proposal that it is tied to her endgame since the very beginning. I'm just saying we do have some writing background to argue that the geographical way he wanted Dany to get there may have changed, and it affected how he uses Quaithe and the glass candles since dropping the 5 year gap. And there's no denying that George has struggled with Dany's story in Essos in alignment with Westeros more and more.

Quaithe's cryptic role and motivation issue: I agree with @Frey family reunion 's proposal for the Quaithe of aCoK and aSoS. But then in aDwD she gets the role of someone who's warning Dany from people who are after her dragons. There's a shift in roles. And I think the reason is George and him dropping the 5 year gap. In aGoT he had Dany journey from Pentos to Vaes Dothrak in 3 chapters: meeting Drogo in Pentos, her wedding in Pentos, arrival at the grasslands with a few paragraphs on the journey, and then her arrival at Vaes Dothrak. In the same book, she then journeys from Vaes Dothrak to the Red Waste in 2. In the last chapters of the Red Waste, Jorah urges Dany to go to Asshai twice: before MMD's ritual as Drogo is near death, before Dany stepts into the pyre and hatches dragons. Asshai is mentioned 16 times in aGoT. In aCoK Dany journeys the red waste in 1 chapter and arrives at Qarth by the second (mostly on foot). Jorah is still for Asshai. Then Quaithe adds her voice for Asshai. And by the time they leave Jorah changes his mind - not Asshai but Slaver's Bay. Asshai is discussed or in Dany's mind in a total of 6 times in aCoK. In aSoS, Quaithe repeats her exact same advice on "beneath the shadow". Nobody else mentions or thinks of it anymore. In aDwD, Dany herself repeats Quaithe's sentence about "beneath the shadow" in a yeah-yeah-yeah tone. And Xaro mentions Asshai once in a non-relevant way. I think that originally (when he wrote aGoT) George had some vague intent or idea to let her go to Asshai. And seemed entirely possible given the distance that Dany did in little over a year. In aCoK George has the baton to advocate for Asshai handed over to Quaithe, while Jorah isn't enamoured with it anymore. He worked and spied for Illyrio up until Qarth, but when the cheesemonger sends Selmy and Belwas he moves away from advizing stuff that Illyrio may wish. And he needs to pace Dany in Essos for the other POVs in Westeros. But equally he sends Jorah away from Dany, so that he can't harp about distrusting Quaithe or argue not to go to Asshai when the time comes. According to George a lot of stuff happened in aSoS in a short amount of time that he intended to require a lot more time (like a year) in-world: that one book would have covered a bigger time span with all that happened, but it's not even a year. He inserts Quaithe once so we wouldn't forget about her still being in the picture as is a journey to Asshai eventually. Then comes his attempt at writing aDwD with a 5 year gap. But he has issues with the story for the older POVs not waiting around for the younger POVs to grow up another 5 years, needs to write too many flashbacks, which is a writing tool he just doesn't like to use much. So, he drops the year gap, starts anew and announces aFfC. Once he dropped the 5 year gap, and struggled with the Meereenese knot, I believe he threw any plans for Dany to journey Beyond the Bones to Asshai into the bin, in relation to the events in Westeros. Suddenly he's facing a scenario where Dany gets a lot on her plate to even make it to Westeros at the time he wants her to get there. But he already wrote-in Quaithe and he cannot leave that hanging. He has to give her a new story purpose in relation to Dany's story. He's going to use her as her special guide who warns against people who are after her dragons and to remember who she is (Jorah's initial role too). Now he needs to work out some type of magic with which he can have Quaithe do that, without having to feature her as a person in the story (because that means background, etc). Yes, glass candles were mentioned in Qarth in aCoK, and Quaithe already contacted Dany using those in aSoS. So, it wasn't invented as a thing after aSoS, but it would serve a bigger role than he may have anticipated. So, now it becomes important to him to feature glass candles in aFfC, and since his decision to split aFfC and aDwD geographically, he gets to introduce glass candle magic entirely seperate from Dany in aDwD: in the prologue and Sam's last chapter at the Citadal. And we know that George wrote several drafts for different POVs for aFfC where his main concern were the "glass candles". Quaithe's cryptic messages and her role becoming "meh" is imo related to a dropped voyage to Asshai. First he had to pace Dany and have her stay put, but then that becomes so huge and it deserves a proper narrative to wrap up, and a journey to Asshai where she learns about Azor Ahai, and Yi Ti, and Great Empire of the Dawn, yadayadayada taking her further away from Westeros for legends has no place anymore.

Maybe that's how they once ended up on the Iron Islands: driftwood survivors of a similar "promised kingdoms" voyage?

The Dreadfort's flaying implies to me they envy the skinchanging ability. People are only jealous or envious of something that they don't possess themselves. And they are indeed shown to be envious: first destroying what they can't have, then taking it anyway with a fake bride. But if you can't skinchange, then you never had greenseers, and thus could never be influenced in such a way. And thus hypothesis drops dead in the water. I also don't see the point of magical large tree organism (that can potentially live forever) fight its fellow species organism, not in a continent the size of South America. Especially when at least one of those people worships you and protects your species. If there is any type of manipulation involved (and I say big "if"), it would be towards converting an enemy into worshiping it, which is a manipulation that he has used a few times in earlier writing, but the manipulating entity is always pure "red". Once he tried to criticise naive hobby anthropology belief that cutesy furry tribes living in nature are some golden age of unspoiled peace and innocense. But later in life he moved to beings with everlasting life seeking natural human death and decay in green marshes. George never really went out of his way to portray the cotf as cutesy enlightened pacifist beings to begin with as he does in Seven Times Never Kill a Man. Instead he goes out of his way to portray them as long dead and as hunters (spearheads) who warred with people before reaching a peace (so not pacifist) as well as having had their wars with the giants. Hence, I don't see the "red pyramid" (not a tree) manipulation being applied to weirwoods or cotf here. The "put a red spicy hot parasite/alien" on your head and commit suicide (while young and in love) with a smile of a Song For Lya isn't applicable either for the cotf or Bloodraven. The tree instead reverses this: prolongs BR's life, but not into infinity. BR is like Kleronomas in his green marsh (The Glass Flower) after he becomes the master of the game, towards the end of his life, training the next master of the game before his delayed but longed for death. Unlike Cyrain he's not pomising Bran a fresh new body with working legs either.

I've been looking at those Lands of Ice and Fire Maps for potential other similarities. Basically there seem to be metaphorical geographical clues in those maps on which we can apply Quaithe's advice: look south for the north and east for the west. So, I've been staring at Oldtown and Starfall and I noticed that the "bays" leading into those sites are almost each other's copy, except the bottom corner on the right of the bay to Starfall is missing the piece of rounded land where we find Three Towers for the Whispering Sound. Starfall seems to be on the equivalent spot as Oldtown, but if we look at the Torrentine fork above in comparison to the Honeywine, Starfall is situated "above" Oldtown. It predates it so to speak. The people who settled on Starfall arrived earlier in Westeros than those of Oldtown, where we have the Battle Island with the black fused stone fort which is a hint to dragons. @SaffronLady has proposed that Honeywine could mean golden blood, though I also would include "golden arbor", implicating a "deception" or "lie" in that area (and I think it's the Hightower claims about their history). Anyhow, the Honeywine is more of a delta, while the Torrentine is a torrentious mountain river dropping off a cliff into the sea. But seen from above it compares to the left two forks where we have Honeyholt, which means "Keep/guard the honey" or "halt the liars". The sigil of House Beesbury (bee grave) are 3 beehives and their words are "Beware my sting". Sting of course is a sword in Tolkien's Hobbit and LotR, which is a sword that lights up. And a beehive is ruled by a queen. There are no male bees in a beehive, none. It's just the queen and her female worker bees. The male bees fly out and wait in the air for a new young queen to pass by and get lucky with her. The "lucky" is relative, for if they do get lucky, it is also certain instant death. The moment they ejaculate their abdomen and lower parts are blown off because it's that physically powerful. But that once in a lifetime ejaculation will fertilize all the eggs that the new queen will lay for the rest of her life in her new beehive. Robert Graves has speculated that certain myths and legends refer to patriarchy stealing the honey of the matriarchy. And with certain temples in Greece devoted to goddesses the priestesses were referred to as "bee" (worker bee), such as Demeter and Persephone temples. That's why George picked the name Mel for Melisandre (Melony): Mel = Miel = french for honey. And in Judges a prophetess with clout in pre-monarch times is featured: Deborah (Debora = bee). Wild honey is sometimes associated to oracles and prophecy, because the surroundings from which the bees get their pollen cannot just determine its taste, but can be potentially halucogenic. We have such claims or tales in relation to the Oracle of Delphi for example. So what's Robert Graves' claim about the patriarchy about? There are 2 different myths where a beehive is born out of a carcass. For example, the same Judges in the bible with the prophetess Deborah also features Samson's story: he kills a lion, leaves the carcass, but then passes it again on his way back, and he witnesses a beehive being born out of the carcass. This is a "miracle". This can never happen for real in nature. Robert Graves argues that therefore it represents the "miracle of making honey without a queen". Something similar occurs in the myth of Orpheus and Eurydice. In the myth Eurydice dances on her wedding day in a flower field (bee reference), and gets chased by a sater or Aresteius, son of Apollo. As she flees she gets bitten by a snake and dies - queen bee is dead. After her death the bees have a sickness and start dieing. Aresteius is advized to sacrifice 4 bulls and 4 cows, leave their carcasses for 3 days and then return. He does this and when he returns he discovers beehives being born out of the carcasses, and they never get sick anymore. Hence Aresteius is the patron of beehive keeping. I mentioned his father was Apollo, who is the god of the Oracle at Delphi. Well he wasn't initially. It predates Apollo and used to be a Cretian one, associated with the same goddess that we think is the equivalent of Persephone (and of course in Crete we have the Minotaur guarding a maiden-queen). Whether you believe Robert Graves doesn't matter, but George certainly knows about this. Proof in the pudding for House Beesbury's Honeyholt is the seat of house Bulwer at the bottom of the Whispering Sound, which is Blackcrown (A Black Crown) and a bull's skull on a bloodred field, and the words "Death before Disgrace". Imo George here is applying Robert Graves' bee-myth theory on the legend of the Bloodstone Emperor versus the Amethyst Empress, where the BE (a man) stole the seat of the Empress, and given the location it suggests that the last battle between AE & BE was fought at Battle Isle. With the reference to Sting, and Starfall at a bigger version of the bay, that would add to the idea that Lightbringer = Dawn. Supportive of this impression is the strait that connects both bays: Redwyne Strait, aka "direct red blood relation". And that Honeyholt would be the equivalent of BlackMont on the Torrentine (The Shadow reference?) The house equivalent to Blackcrown's position is Sunhouse: sun victorious over the black crown. But not immediately. On the map of the East (beyond the bones) the outlier of the Mountains of the Morn(ing) seems to be connected to the Bleeding Sea (Red lake reference to Brandon of the Bloody Blade) with the 5 forts. Metaphorically seen from above they make for 5 steps, or 5 generations, before a descendant of the Bloody Blade ends up with a Dayne. The Sunhouse sigil are 6 sunflowers on a blue field, which then would be blue for Others and thus Long Night and the 6th generation after AE winning the Battle for the Dawn. And that 6th generation imo was Brandon the Builder. Now finally I get to the very relevant bit for the trees in the wall concept. I already mentioned that we're missing a bit of land at the Bay for Starfall in order to be a full equivalent for the Whispering Sound: the land of House Costayne, the seat Three Towers. @SaffronLady pointed out that House Costayne backed Queen Rhaenyra during the Dance (hmm another Queen Bee dance versus a honey stealer), which is certainly odd given its proximity to Oldtown, and the Greens were basically Hightowers. Aside from 3 towers not having its equivalency in the bay for Starfall, I noticed how the Arbor acts like a shield in front of Redwyne Strait. An arbor is the name for one of those gates you see in gardens: either made out of vines or from latticework with "climbers". Hmmmm. And on my "The West Map" of the "Lands of Ice and Fire" edition you can see a row of three tiny towers across the Arbor map (no grove but a tower/tree line!). Curiously enough the map doesn't name them. Which is really weird, since every symbol that either represents a town, house or ruin on any of these maps (from beyond the wall all the way to Asshai and Sothoryos) has a name written next to it. In other words, I think 3 towers refer to these 3 towers set in a line on the Arbor (a green gate), which is a shield. And here George uses a spelling game: three towers = tree towers. You won't see these 3 towers in a line on another map alas. But here's a link to an online jpg of it: http://i2.wp.com/www.fantasticmaps.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Westeros.jpg And if "3 towers" refer to the Arbor-shield and towers, implying the Wall/Ward and potentially 3 wildfire dragon-persons (Brandon the Builder in the gate, Bran at the cave and Jon Snow) then it makes sense that there's no equivalent attached to the Starfall bay. I mention Bran, because at the end of his last chapter he sees stuff while looking at flames. This indicates he must have some type of fireblood too. Via Tully? Cat is after all a fire-wight and there's the auburn hair. Which gave me an idea to try and test on the map, and it turns out that it works: if I place a long stick/ruler straight from Starfall to Winterfell, the sole seat that is covered by my stick (right in the middle of it) is Riverrun. So the three Towers/Houses/Bloodlines that are crucial to protect and ward Westeros are: House Dayne, House Tully and House Stark. This would explain why House Tully has the red/blue sigil, split between ice (north) and fire (south). Now of course, logically the 3 towns/sites/seats on the Arbor must be Ryamsport (ram-gate? Black Gate), Vinetown (Riverrun) and Starfish Harbor (Starfall). But I'll leave that for you. I also was reminded of Mel's vision of towers crumbling: Just as the sea is symbolic so are the towers in her vision. It are the tree towers/3 towers: people, houses and weirwood sites. When all three have crumbled or fallen, the ward is finished.

That's because she has a needle in hand. She can sew wherever she wants or needs.

@Evolett Nice potential wordplay for sewers in relation to weaving wards. As for Arya in relation to rape: I'm reminded of Arya's voyage in Braavos to the Gate, and her being asked by the fellow actor whether she's ready for "her rape". If that city walkthrough and the Gate represents her going "home", then this implies Arya's "rape" after getting home. Given that "rape" is also used in Lyanna's case for "abduction"/"elopement" unsanctioned by her guardians it can also be used to imply "stealing". It could just mean her being sexually active as a minor with a man/boy of her choice at an age many readers would regard as too young to consent. Ever since he dropped his 5 year gap, George has given us Arianne and Asha who picked their first lover at the ages of around 13-14. Back to the gate/ward. So, "rape" in relation to a gate or ward, means stealing a ward. For example Arya gets stolen by the Hound (a symbolical rape) while she was a ward of the BwB (a hostage). Samwell steals Gilly (a flower): so he symbolically deflowered her, including giving her his cloak. Jon steals a hostage from Mel and Stannis (Mance's son), but also sends it away: Sam and Gilly have the "ward", and steals Val from Stannis, and Patrek attempts to steal her but is unsuccesful, because he was killed by her "guardian" (a giant). The rape of Dany Flint at the NW, also ties to Dany, not just by the name Dany but also the name Flint, as Widow's Watch that I pointed out in my map post, is a seat of House Flint. If Dany is "stolen" from a guard/guardian/hostage taker, she is "raped". Also good catch on noseless Tyrion not being able to smell in relation to sewers. The stolen ward Jeyne Poole also lost her nose and is on her way to CB.

Perhaps they are several massive organisms. Bit of both? The weirwoods are an initial step. First he'll see via his godswood tree at WF. Then other trees. But eventually he won't even need to see through the eyes of a tree anymore. The eyes/faces are carved into the heart trees to "awaken" the trees. I suspect this is George's idea that when you damaging bark of a tree it will release sap to protect the "wound" and from parasites using it to get inside. In a gardener conceptual sense it would "harden" a tree and gear up its defenses. In the case of weirwoods, it makes them more "watchful" of their surroundings "quicker". Such a tree would be easier for a new greenseer to train with. A master greenseer can see beyond that. Probably roots may suffice, and the roots undoubtedly go deep and wide. And roots of plantlife are known to communicate with one another via nutrients released underground, even across species, etc. Note that BR refers to weirwoods as "them", not "the weirwood". Yes they can. They are each an Alexandrian library so to speak. Each of them "first witnesses". And as a tree does not have a "brain" the memories can be stored most likely in whichever part of the tree, including roots. But in Jaime's case he's not seeing the past or a memory. He dreams about future possibilities. He has what appears to be a "green dream". I suspect he may be a "green dreamer" like Jojen or Ghost of HH. He just never knew it and was never trained. If a new greenseer needs a woken up weirwood (one with eyes/face) to train with, then a new green dreamer needs a weirwood or stump (perhaps even a weirwood bed is enough) to train with initially. Eventually they won't really need that item or stump or a tree anymore to "green dream" (Jojen does not seem to), but being around weirwood or roots may still amplify it. Which may be why Ghost of HH sleeps in the chopped weirwood grove to have "green dreams", why Jojen is certain he won't die in the godswood of the WF the day the wolves threaten him and his sister, but seems to give up once he's at BR's cave. Think of this as with skinchanging: practice makes perfect. The talent is there with Jaime imo, but without awareness of it and without practice it will be underdeveloped. Green dreaming is the talent that is tied to seeing the "future"... BR makes an allusion to a being like a weirwood that basically lives forever, our future, may seem like its present. But future seeing seems only a talent reserved for green dreamers. And since the future is not entirely "set" it requires a different state than "seeing through the eyes of a tree" to access flashes of the potential future. Green dreamers also would not require a tree with eyes to start training, because since they are seeing flashes of the potential future, the root system will suffice, since an acorn can dream of being an oak tree. Something that has such a long lifespan and appears to grow or potentially regrow a new shoot on its surviving root system would rarely "bloom". On top of that seasons aren't annual in this world. Maybe a weirwood blooms only once in its life (like an agave, but agaves die after their one time bloom), or every spring (which might vary between 5 - 20 years, just spitballing). None of the Stark children seemed to have lived long enough to remember a spring well enough, though Jon might. And the Starks would be the sole ones possibly paying attention to it, if it were to bloom. But they also wouldn't know its significance. In short, we haven't seen spring in asoiaf yet. It was late summer in aGoT, fall in the rest of the series, until perhaps the last month of the adwd timeline when winter arrived. We haven't seen any spring, so we wouldn't have seen a weirwood bloom or shed seeds. George uses such a concept when it comes to the CotF: they live longer but reproduce less than humans. I don't think the CotF would be lying, because it's pointless to lie to a greenseer. He'll find out the truth eventually. As you already mentioned: wierwoods have eternal memories. CotF live longer than humans and their life is permeated with this knowledge that trees "see", skinchangers "see" and that greenseers can access information of any given moment of the past wherever they wish. They see no point in lying with an awareness of living surrounded by basically an ever lasting spy network imho. Hence they sing the True Tongue. At worst I can see them lie by ommission (refraining from mentioning something) and by evasion through telling something that is true but not relevant (jingling keys). So, yes, when Leaf tells Bran those are weirwood seeds, I believe her. Yes, cotf greenseers can access the past of the wars before the pact. They can also access wars where people sacrificed their lives beside them against Andals. And times when they lived alongside each other in peace. And they have green dreamers who can see their own species/race's future. They know that the future is for mankind, not themselves. They seemed to have been more and more aware of this after the Andal invasion and Starks were caught up in the War Across the Water. Their choice was to retreat, separate themselves from the drama of the short lives of mankind. To elongate their existence for as long as possible until their knowledge and teachings were required against the Others. They know they are a doomed race, which is why they sing sad songs. There will be a spring for mankind, but not for cotf.

If we expand the "breaking of a wall" to "getting to the other side of a wall", we also have the use of sewers at Slaver's Bay to get people on the other side to rebel against the Master, and using people on the other side to help open the gates or doors (Deepwood Motte) drawing people in the open field, or planting an insider (Tom Sevenstreams at RR).

The sole assertion for this is the World Book. And it's in the same paragraph of the claim of the Blackwoods being the kings of the Wolfswood before the Kings of Winter kicked them out of the North, and at least for the latter we have runic records to support the Blackwoods claim, and having had greenseers for a long time, I trust a greenseer family's claim on this. The "scarlet" on the sigil implies something is not as is claimed or believed, imho. Seems like the Blackwoods were kings of the Wolfswood before the Glovers. And there is another issue with the wooden longhall of the Glovers. Asha proved how easy it was for Ironborn to take it. The Ironborn used Bear Island permanently until the century after Gared the Great to reave the western coastlines of the North. And so I have to believe that in the thousand years of reaving no former petty king Glover ever thought of making a stone keep? Seems to me that the old wooden longhall with wooden pallisade dates back to a time when the Ironborn were kicked out of Bear Island once and for all. The Ironborn lost Bear Island for the first time in the century after Gared the Great (an Andal Lannister). They got it back a few times until the Stark who won it from a Greyjoy with wrestling. It doesn't add up that they never even built a stone wall with watchtowers for six thousand years (at least), with such a constant threat for thousand of years. We know about the constant Blackwood feud with the Brackens, and while their keep is wood, their walls certainly are not. So a lot of question marks behind the World Book's assertion on this. I'm also suspicious about the Dustin claim with regards to them being descendants of the Barrow Kings, especially when a maester says "seems sure enough" about it. A black crown with rusted longaxes (iron) for a sigil and again a wooden longhall for a seat. Though the rusted iron suggests early iron forging. Might have a connection with the Ironborn, and in that way a long connecton (longaxe) with The Axe. They ruled since the last of the Barrow Kings. These were the first kings that the Starks warred with to expand their petty kingdom. But the last Barrow King is not said to have been killed. So instead of Barrow Kings they became House Dustin I guess. Still I'm wondering about the First King's claim. As I see it, the legend of Hugor of the Hill of the Seven promising him and his descendants great kingdoms in a foreign land inspired some of their best warriors to go exploring. They had just acquired some forging knowledge, plate armor of the Rhoynar and met these river people who knew how to sail. We know they were ever quarrelsome. Some didn't want anything to do with boats: they had horses and you can't drink salt water. They would have argued there was more land for the taking now that they had the plate armor as advantage against the Hairy Men to the west. I can see another group arguing that the promised kingdoms lay beyond the sea, rallying other men to join them on this dangerous first sailing voyage to the west. These imo became the Ironborn, but also very likely House Durrandon. We have a reverse gender belief about Storm Gods between Durrandons and Ironborn, and no origin story for Durran "Godsgrief" (just his castle story). The Durrandons and the Ironborn are the sole ones sharing the name Erich, and the Storm Kings are associated with smithing. On top of that Durran appears at a bay called Shipbreaker's Bay, which is famously known for its storms all year round. And we have a story of Patchface ending up on the beach as sole survivor, though he "drowned". On top of that we have some story about Godsgrief and a woman who basically comes down to a Lorelei or siren. Bays and water locations where ships end up on cliffs are typical locations where siren stories arise. So, in Durran, around the time of the Long Night supposedly we have a new arrival. Sounds like his ship got wrecked. And he immediately proclaims himself king, taking the Rainwood from the cotf, despite the Pact. Sounds like someone who didn't know about the Pact. Why did he build in stone then? Well he might have tried wood first, but that got blown away, etc, etc. And if he pronounced himself king there and then, this might be because he believed he had arrived in the promised lands. No need to migrate or conquer beyond the capes the sea had sent him but spit out once more. Meanwhile the Ironborn believe in a Drowned God and a female Storm Goddess who is their enemy. Was Durran Godsgrief one of their God-Kings who inspired them to go on this perilous exploration? Did his ship get separated and did they see it go down at Shipbreaker's Bay? But if one of their men or leaders ended up at Durran's Point, then others might have wrecked far more north too in a region with little to no rivals. Via Davos we also know that the Sisters is a notorious location for wrecking of ships. The Sistermen worshipped the lady of the waves and the Lord of the Skies. Bingo! And they cast dwarfs into the sea as an offering. Sounds familiar. And they went into the Bite and the Shivering Sea. The sea around Skagos is also notorious for wrecking pirate ships. And both the Bite and the Neck a location of easy entry into the North, especially if there hardly any rivals. The black crown of the First King on the Dustin sigil and easily rusting iron suggests forging technology like that of the Ironborn. So, maybe he was one of those adventurers who managed to get North before most everyone else did, and like Durran ended up believing this was the promised kingdom, and since it was promised by a god all the land and the people in it owed fealty to him. Back to the Three Sisters and Fingers area. At the Fingers and the Vale maesters discovered two type of carvings: The carvings of the star outnumber those of the double bladed axe. But they are found deep into the Vale. The maesters assume those carvings were made at the same time: that there was a star faction and an axe faction, but eventually stuck with the star. But how could the maesters know for certain that those carvings were made during one and the same invasion? They cannot. Maybe the axe were the markings of a far older wave? The first wave? A much smaller wave? Could that explain an Arryn name for a legend of 6000 years old? As for the Ironborn, they seemed to have continued, might even have been scattered at the Stepstones. At Starfall they would have met with a people that had superior steel over their iron. The whole "sea dragon" legend may have to do with being witnesses to potential dragon battle at Battle Isle for example. But we do have pirates for that bay and the Honeywine. On and on some went to finally pick the abandoned Iron Islands for their multi kingdoms, especially since they seemed scared of going too far inland, and they could use it for forging their black iron. And then there's House Ryswell. The Rills were originally ruled by House Ryder. It's not known when the Ryswells became its rulers, but lookie lookie: King Theon Stark put a rebellion down once at the Rills. The sigil includes bronze, suggesting bronze age, but that likely stems from the Ryders. So, there certainly was horsebreeding with the FIrst Men (the Brackens too), but after the rebellion by the Ryders, Theon Stark could have rewarded an Andal ward of a horse culture in charge of it instead. Take note that Lyanna's alleged practice at the rings on horseback of the app would have occurred here, where her brother Brandon Stark was a ward. And that he actively rode during the Tourney of Harrenhal. So, we have a "knight" connection or practice at it for that house too. So, I'm not so sure about this "First Men petty kings" necessarily disproves some of these houses to have been part of a far earlier invasion attempt, at a time with far less resistance from the First Men, because some of these areas may not have been peopled. The First King seems to have been such a man, Durran Godsgrief, the early Sistermen, with at least two of these sharing commonalities with the Ironborn. Add wards from Theon Stark's time about 4000 years later. And then of course much more recently, the Manderlys from the Reach. And some very mistifying anomalies. As such we may be looking at different era Andals in the North that the maesters don't know about.

You don't have to buy it. But I'll revive the claims about Theon Stark's raid to point out a few things, both about the "source", the alleged structures, the obvious Andal anti-Stark propaganda, and a proposal of what really happened based on a parallel and a well known custom of the Starks in how to deal with a violent enemy trying to take their land Note: Earlier it was mentioned that King Theon Stark made "common cause" with the Boltons. The World Book uses that reference too with the Marsh Kings making common cause with the Starks to defend against would-be-invaders, specifying that this of course occurred before the Neck was annexed by the Starks. So, around the time that the Andals invaded the Vale, several had tried to do so in the North as well at a time that the Boltons were still kings. And Theon Stark made common cause with the Bolton Kings to tackle the invasion. I guess that like King Tyrion III Lannister and King Gerold II Lannister (FM Lannisters of the Rock), they too heard the tales of how Andals used enmities between FM to gain a foothold but instantly betray them. The Corbray takeover of the Fingers is not an admirable tale. One of the first things that is noticeable that Maester Yandel gives a very unclear source: it is said. He tries to sell it as a "tale". But usually Maester Yandel does clarify when it's a "singer's song", a septon's song or tale, an old wives' tale, a maester who dug up a story in the books of Castle Black, a report from a maester, a ballad, etc. He does not do so in this instance. He just writes "it is said". In other words he either doesn't know the source or he knows the "source" is easily distrusted. "It is said" classifies the above to explicit "hearsay" without anyone who started the claim. "It is said" is also a typical expression that is used by gossipers. When someone comes to you and tells you a horrific reveal about someone and starts with "it is said", you know it's gossip. That is why Maester Yandel uses present tense, instead of past tense. It's not an eye witness account from a Northerner who went on this raid, came back and bragged in an inn. Conclusion 1: Maester Yandel is gossiping like Tansy of the Peach gossips that Catelyn had her way with Jaime with a threesome in his cell in Riverrun all night before she set him free. And at least with Tansy's gossip we know it's some guard of Riverrun who saw Cat enter Jaime's cell with Brienne hours before he escaped. The guard just made up what occurred between, letting his imagination run wild. If we extrapolate this onto the Theon story, we can conclude that Theon Stark did sail for Andalos and that he returned with prizes of which a great many of these prizes may have lost their heads. What happened in between the original gossiper does not know. Interestingly enough, we have another Gerold Lannister who sort of does something similar as Theon Stark, Gerold the Great. He does not precede the above mentioned Gerold II, but comes at least 13 or 14 kings after Gerold II. Gerold the Great is a Lannister of the Andal dynasty. Andal Ser Joffrey, husband of the daughter of the last FM Lannister dynasty, took the Lannister name and accepted the crown when she had no male sibling. Gerold the Great is a descendant of this Joffrey Lannister. Now, Gerold also went on a raid, a raid of the Iron Islands, and he took one hundred hostages with him, vowing to hang one each time he'd be raided by the Ironborn again. He ended up hanging over 20 of those hostages. Let's see how Maester Yandel writes about this event, shall we? Hmm, Theon Stark goes on a bloody vengeance, but Gerold the Great on a daring raid. Hmm, Theon Stark takes a hundred stinking and rotting maggot crawling heads back from Andalos to the North (you wouldn't have wanted to be on board of those), but Gerold the Great took only hostages. Hmm, Theon Stark planted these heads, which would amount to skulls by then, on spikes to scare off would be Andal conquerers. But Gerold is true to his word when he hangs more than twenty of his hostages. Come to think of it, what do Starks usually do? Aren't they famous both in the North and beyond for taking or demanding "wards"? Maybe George chose to give this raid story to a Theon Stark, because Ironborn Theon Greyjoy was a hostage and ward, as a clue to see through the malicious gossip that maester Yandel spreads? Theon Stark didn't take rotting heads back. He took hostages in Andalos, took them home with him to serve as cupbearers and be raised alongside his children. And if there were other Andal would be conquerers who tried to put him to the test, "true to his word, no doubt he did behead plenty of these wards with his Ice, no doubt. But not all. Now that is something that sounds more like typically Stark, no? Now you'll ask me, "but if he took wards with him, where are their descendants now? Are there other Andal Houses than Manderly in the North?" Yes there are: House Mormont, House Glover, House Cassel and maybe House Cerwyn What's House Mormont's "Keep"? A wooden longhall that disappointed Lynesse Hightower so. What hangs on the entrance of their wooden keep? A carving of a woman with a battleaxe and a babe in a bear skin. The carving basically signals their "motherland" attributes: battleaxe, carving, wood and bears. And the motherland are the Hills of Norvos and the Axe. Damn, House Mormont's Bear Island looks a lot like the surroundings in the Hills of Norvos, and a perfect example of how migratory Andal warlords and kings lived in Andalos, except that House Mormont decided to settle permanently. Hence their words are "Here we Stand", aka "here we halt". The migratory aspect is important. It's dropped in the World Book when Maester Yandel talks about the Andals of Andalos. They were migratory. He doesn't specify it much, but King Artys Arryn refers to this in a way. We can consider Artys Arryn to be a second generation Andal invader. He was born in the Vale, but the First Men began to realize the threat of these new invading Andals after betrayals such as that of Corbray to the two men who paid him to come to their lands from Andalos. So, after the initial first wave and as these types of betrayals such as Corbray were going on left and right, Artys was born and an adult man already when he defeated the First Men on the Giant's Lance. Now Artys Arryn did build a castle, the Gates of the Moon (which disappointed his grandson greatly, but I'll come back to him later, but also contemporaries of Artys did not consider it a castle for a king): it was a stone fortress to defend himself from any attack from the Riverlands or the mountains. BUT, Artys Arryn was rarely "home". The World Book tries to explain it as Artys Arryn dealing with disputes and rebellion (though he had hostages), but Artys Arryn himself said, "My saddle is my throne, my palace my tent." Which culture can you think of out of the top of your head that would also say such a thing? Dothraki culture. No, I'm not saying that Andals are Dothraki, but the horselord migration culture was similar, except that they did build wooden longhalls, instead of grass huts. Another clue to this horselord culture is Artys' grandson (a 4th generation Andal). The World Book uses the phrase "earned his spurs". This is indeed an expression born from knight culture in the middle ages, so we automatically think of this "earned his spurs" as Maester Yandel trying to be poetic about Roland Arryn earning his knighthood. But this earning of knighthood is not linked to fighting, but specifically to horsemanship - the expertise in riding a horse with spurs. Overall though we can infer that Roland Arryn was a FM culture geek. He absolutely despised the Gates of the Moon after seeing Casterly Rock and Oldtown and being fostered out to an Andal king in the Riverlands and saw the impressive castles of the First Men there. The fact that he didn't even consider the Andal marble good enough for his Eyrie design suggest he hated the Andal "soil" of the Vale. And he wed a FM daughter (House Hunter). Roland Arryn was a First-Menophile. BTW it took 8 kings and nearly 100 years to build the Eyrie, and the pic used in the World Book has it with mostly square spires and square bodies on the outer construction. There's only 3 round spires. So, in that sense "Here we stand" by the Mormonts is a declaration that they're content with the wild country home they have. They don't need anymore exploration. No conquering. And the fact that their ancestors were taken directly as hostages from the homeland would be why they are so fond of their "motherland" from whence they were taken by a King called Theon Stark. They kept to the "Old Ways" (and I'm not dropping this without reason). Except for the Mormonts the "old ways" are building wooden halls, axes, and at least in Maege's case the Old Gods. But obvioiusly, George showed us quite early on that Mormonts were Andals and how the Andal way of life used to be, when he has Dothraki call Jorah "the Andal" and travel a whole book with them. As an Andal, Jorah's ancestors lived much like the Dothraki, except they wore plate armor and wielded axes instead of an arakh, but were just as quarrelsome amongst themselves. The building of the Eyrie in the World Book also provides indirectly a very good reason why Andals of Andalos did not build in stone. It took 8 kings and about a century and a lot of money to build it. But there was 1 king who halted the Eyrie project. Roland II Arryn, great grandson of Roland I Arryn who started it. The second Roland didn't want to spend money on the building project. He wanted to use the money to go to war against Tristifer IV Mudd in the Riverlands. Conquering and warring costs money, especially if you settle in one place. When you don't have a permanent home, you don't need to bother with defending it, and let your forces "forage" of the lands that you trample. Conquering was the Andal's god given right so they fought all the time, expanded all the time, and they didn't "waste" resources on building to show off or to defend. Hence the women of Bear Island defending themselves with axes most likely also date back to proper Andalos. As their husbands went warring and raiding one another, they had to always be prepared to defend themselves. Especially since the World Book also confirms that Andals took the survivors they conquered to slaves, which tended to be women and children. Exactly like the Dothraki do. The World Book mentions it for what the Andals did with the surviving Hairy women and children at the Bay of Lorath. We know the Andals did this after Artys Arryn's victory in the Vale. There's Corbray's story taking one FM king's daughter to wife and another rival FM woman as bedwarmer. They didn't only enslave non-Andals they conquered, but each other too. And this explains why Theon's "wards" considered it perfectly normal to remain in the North and be true to the king who captured them, and his descendants. It was perfectly normal for them to serve their captor and hope to "earn their freedom" in time, maybe even get "rewarded". The original wards were probably glad they weren't sold off as slaves. And if the group of wards was large enough you would have a retention of the homeland culture, including earning the honorary "ser" title, which most likely is comparable to "kos" or "kas" with the Dothraki. And thus we have a Ser Rodrik Cassel, and Cassels being the only Stark men riding the lists at Robert's Tourney, aiming to be knights, at least in the kos and kas way. Both protecting their lord physically and attempting to avenge his murder before dying. So, what is the evidence for the Glovers? again we have a wooden keep and their sigil is a silver mailed fist. We don't have sers with the Glovers, and silver would be a clue to why: silver spurs are for squires, while full knights have gilded spurs. Why can't a wooden keep be a FM architectural feature: because the FM associate with "stone" and the Pact with the CotF is why they would have started to use "stone" to build instead of wood. The earliest FM of the Dawn Age in the Stormlands provoked a war with the CotF, exactly because they forrested trees to build their settlements. The Pact gave CotF the forests to the CotF and the promise not to cut trees anymore. And certainly the coalition of Brandon with the CotF agains the Others would have revived this agreement. The wooden keep of the Glovers with vassal houses called Forrester for example in the middle of the Wolfswood points to (a) the House not getting their lands before the CotF left the North to go beyond the Wall for good, which would be well after the Andal Invasion and (b) Andal origin of building in wood. And then we have House Cerwyn. We don't know the architectural material of their keep, but we do have an eye catching sigil and words: a black battleaxe on silver. Black = iron. Silver = squire. And a battleaxe is what some of the Andal invaders carved early on in the Vale in stone. Their words are "honed and ready". This should bring the Holy Guard of the Bearded Priests to mind: the longaxe is branded on their chest to remind them to keep their "longaxe" sharp. The Bearded Priests and many elements of the culture at Norvos are reminders of Andal migratory conquering and enslaving culture, except with them it's reversed. They turn it against themselves: hairshirts (hairy men massacres), self flagellation (turning the slaver's whip onto yourself, a longaxe instead of a battleaxe (long way to get home and used to protect and police the people to follow the religious rules), one true god, spiked helms (see Warrior's Sons of the Faith), buying unwanted sons, wearing horsehair capes, dancing bears. I suspect the present day Norvosi sect are descendants of enslaved Andals, most likely the ones who did settle far from the motherland, deep in Rhoyne country, on a site that predated them (like Qarlon the Great) which was the location where later Myr was built by Valyrian merchants. Imo the Bearded Priests preached to their fellow enslaved Andals that it was God punishing them for straying from God's way. Their god had promised to give them a kingdom in the west one day, and instead of waiting patiently for when that time came, they plundered and stole land and massacred the Hairy Men, enslaved them (and raped them?). And then they crossed the Rhoyne with the steel that the Rhoynar had once gifted them. So, in their eyes God punished them to teach them a lesson. Repent! Repent! Repent! So, they picked the Hills of Norvos (their origin) and the Axe, and did build a city, because they were going to wait for God's Helper (Azariah in Hebrew) to gift them a kingdom in the west. Do I need to mention the Bells? Or that Bearded Men are forbidden to cut their hair? Or how non-priest Norvosi men love to sport long mustachios? Hmmm, where do we see that tradition again? The Norvosi are not the sole descendants of the Andals that Valyria enslaved I'm sure: the Qohoric (smiths) and the Hightowers (bedslaves from Lys?) seem likely candidates as well. The first didn't care for the fanatical Bearded Priests. Nope, they went all in on the Valyrian blood magic, but still make wooden carvings and like the Norvosi weave tapestries. And the actual Hightower originally being a wooden construction points to Andals. Finally there is another culture group we can associate with battleaxes, dark iron smithing and building with wood, who reached the most western lands of Westeros: the Ironborn with their "driftwood crown" and structure of Nagga's Bones. But I suspect they left the Axe before the rise of the Faith of the 7 in Andalos, with something else they learned from the Rhoynar: ships. They're more proto-Andals than the Andals of Andalos that I describe. Probably another religious schism: not horses or going inland, but boats for their personal kingdom, thralls, salt wives, and building with white wood where a previous disappeared people left their marks in stone. No writing. And instead of the Faith, they have the Drowned God, and the "Old Way". So, to now turn to Yandel's three towerhouses and fortified sept. We know most of the claim is gossip, but let's take this detail more serious. Let's say that the Northerners came across a tower looking wooden home. What would they call these things? Could it be 'tree towerhouses'? They would give it the name it would most resemble to them back in the North, but add the material it was built in. And anyone who heard it back in Westeros would automatically assume they meant actual towerhouses of stone, and phonetically mistake 'tree' for "three". A fortified sept could just be a walled sept, or a sept with a moat around it. In the lower city of Norvos (which represents a memory of their past sins and way of living) the defences are also moats and fences from wood and alike, not stone. Northerners would grasp the intent of a moat (hello Gates of the Moon) or wall of brush or a wooden wall (like the Romans did when setting up camp) and would just refer to it as "fortified". And the Andals who were "stonified" by FM culture would think it means stone fortification. Does the last prove these were wooden towerhouses or wooden defences around a sept? Nope. But it does argue how we could get from one thing to another. Add the Andals south of the Neck themselves not really knowing motherland culture anymore. Add them not able to conceive they learned to build with stone from the savage FM. Add it made absolute sense to build stone defences to Westerosised Andals centuries later after the invasion (especially in the kingdom they believed to be the one promised to them), and we can see that there's no way that any gossip about what the Northerners raided in Andalos could be anywhere close to the truth. And if they were indeed stone structures, then that is the sole evidence in all of Andalos that was built in stone in their thousands of years roaming Andalos proper we have. While we have evidence that even King of All Andals Qarlon the Great built a wooden longhall for his palace. As far as architectural influence or feats goes that's VERY "disappointing".

Back to Brandon, the Wall and trees inside the wall. Now add the claim that Brandon (or his son) built the Hightower. I don't believe that hystorically the case at all, but George connects the Hightower to Brandon as a clue. So, what do we know about the Hightower: it has a fire beacon, a green (wildfire) one when signaling "war. Hightowers claim that you can "see" the Wall from the Hightower It's as high or higher than the Wall What do we know these things are symbolically or stand in for? towers stand-in for trees. a fire beacon = brandon Connect this with the Wall and specifically that the Hightower is as tall as the Wall or taller: the Hightower represents the weirwoods in the Wall, particularly the one that became Brandon's final tree at the Black Gate. Now let's go to WF. Again I don't believe Brandon built the First Keep, but the First Keep stands right next to the entrance into Brandon's "throne and palace" of old (the crypts). If the Hightower represents the weirwood of which we see a glimpse in with the Black Gate, then the "round" tower of the First Keep with its worn away gargoyles so you can't see what they used to be (we assume wolves, but were they.... enter Dragonstone) is also a stand-in tree. That's why it's round. To better mimic a tree. It serves as the Stark's "family tree" going back to Brandon, standing right next to the entrance of the crypts where we find all of Brandon's Stark descendants. The gargoyles can then be compared to the foliage of a tree. So the "dragonstone" (dragon + FM mix again, aka wildfire) gargoyles have been weathered over time that you can't really make out what they used to be anymore. The origins are "weathered", aka "thick grey murky fog of mists of time" idea, because fog and mist = weather. Grey wolves is the end result. The First Keep's name stands for the First Seal/Preserver, who is Brandon. The family tree "blew up" from inside out after Ramsay puts WF to the torch, sealing the greenseers in (but they can escape with the help of a giant) and gargoyle debris next to the entrance. George really wants us to visually connect the "family tree" of the first Stark to the crypts, and accentuating the entrance here of the cave system. Ward! The blowing up coincided with Summer seeing a winged serpent above WF. A ghost dragon flew out of the tree that is Brandon. Gives both a clue to his origin, but also what will happen because of Ramsay's choice to destroy the Starks. Bran's climbing chapter is an absolute treasure trove, with references like Ned telling Bran he's not his son (referring to Brandon the Builder and Jon, a fostered boy/bastard) and that she should not be seen by his (foster) mother (fostering/warding away from the mom, and staying out of Cat's way, or the wife of the uncle). And Brandon and Jon try their very best but don't really fool her, making her turn to "others". And then Old Nan says the boy climbs too high and is struck down by lightning and the crows peck out his eyes. Jon climbs too high in rank and it's implied that Stannis (storm king, thunder and lightning) has something to do with striking him down and the NW blinding him. Not sure exactly for Brandon, but I think that's probably about greenseeing and Lightbringer. In Brandon's case someone or something damaged at least one of his eyes. Anyhow Bran is not impressed by that story, because there's crow's nests on top of the tower. Crow's nest is a lookout. Brandon could skinchange birds to see. Jon will see with Ghost. The tower here is the broken tower: the broken family tree branch of the Targs as well as GEotD, broken wall, or tree hit by lightning. Might also be clue that Brynden one-eye dies, unable to get into the tree for his second life, but at least he can continue to help via the crow's pet raven. The broken tower is clearly to be taken as a Wall reference here. But a tower is a tree. So, absolutely a reference to the wall actually being trees, and then the Targs set it afire, leading to a partial collapse of the "watch" and the NW was never rebuilt. Sometmes the Starks still sent sons to the Watch, to not just let it completely fall aparte. But only Brandon and Brynden still perform the original duty and work. Best to start with the godswood, the grove, the heart tree, the weirwood. Then we have a sentinel: a soldier tree, a tree with a greenseer for his second life in it. The armory refers to swords, forge and "arm" (Dorne?) and a guards hall (the White Sword tower?). The First Keep has a blind side, so another blind reference in relation to Brandon. But Brandon is in the Black Gate weirwood tree at the Nightfort where only rat cooks and spiders live (maw reference imo of the corpse queen = thing that only comes in the night). The gargoyles (dragons) lean blind over space (flying?). If you swing from dragonlord race to dragonlord race, separated by space and time, "hand" over "hand" you end up North. The Wall reference again with the broken tower. Then we get a reference to the Eyrie combined with Blackened stones. In the Vale the Arryns of the Eyrie got conflated with a "winged knight" of the First Men0, aka "winged warrior" or a skinchanged raven, namely Bloodraven, who is a "blackwood", a black wood, is a black tree, is a "blackened" weirwood, vilified by Andal propaganda who are the reason why men forgot all and crows/ravens can only say "corn" now.

Another thought and insight that comes to mind, that follows from Brandon in the tree that the Gate is part of. Remember how I once proposed the stuff about the Chtonic Cycle about Lyanna as queen of the Underworld, Ned Stark as ruler of the underworld, etc? The underworld of course are the hollow hills and the living quarters of the greenseers on their weirwood thrones. The mythological references regarding this is just George pointing out that greenseers (in their underworld) are the true kings/protectors of the realm (not just the underworld). But then we have Lyanna's statue in the halls of the greenseers. So why a "queen of the underworld"? Because she's "in the tree", or rather in the armor of the Knight of the Laughing Tree, or "behind" the "shield of the Laughing Tree". She's a symbolical female greenseer, because as a woman she continues the "family tree" (the Wolf's Den and the river map-stuff of my previous post) Then think of Ned Stark's "promise me" in relation to Lyanna. If Lyanna is a heart tree and you make promises/vows in front of a heart tree, shouldn't lie to a tree , shouldn't break your promise... Dun-dun-dun-dun Ned kept his promise until a fake-raven Luwin counseled him to allow Jon to take the Black and he chose to follow that counsel without revealing Jon's parentage. He thought he had time, but Jon made a binding vow to a tree before he could tell, and so Ned ended up with a broken promise/vow to a tree, and lost his head.

Yes, the Wolf's Den is a much later construction. But it certainly is a valid subject for parallel knowledge, because of its name. It functions as a symbolic "birth place of the Starks", even though it's not at WF, etc. Architecturally it is supposed to remind us of "fused black stone" for example and thus of the base of the Hightower, although obviously the Wolf's Den isn't made of fused black stone: it shows damage of wear and isn't really fused. Davos (a name of the Dayne King once, and he is lord of rainwood, aka a greenseer reference) goes in Stannis' man (a SE man), but exits a Stark man when he goes in search for Rickon for Manderly. We witness the birth of a wolf. So, that seems another re-enactment of Brandon. ANYONE WHO HAS THE "LANDS OF ICE AND FIRE" maps: check what I'm saying below. @Wizz-The-Smith The Wolf's Den lies at the end of the river White Knife (aka Dawn) before the water of the river rushes into the Bite (frost?). The White Knife has 3 rivers feeding it, aka three "branches" come together. The first two, farthest away from Wolf's Den join soon south of Long Lake. Basically it's a river from Long Lake coming together with a stream coming from the Lonely Hills. This joining of the two is already called the White Knife. Then much lower/later a third stream that originates in the Wolfswood joins it. Sounds to me like two different family branches coming together and the White Knife/White Sword is born (note that this alludes to both Dawn as well as a person (like Lightbringer is both a sword and a reference to a person). When we take a closer look on the map to the stream that joins much later into the White Knife, where it originates in the Wolfswood we notice that it also shows two little streams coming together, and are a mini-copy of the first two: a stream from a lake and a second. It's just at an eschewed angle. So it looks like a mini Long Lake and whatever we have to call what's coming from the Lonely Hills. So, the third stream from the Wolfswood shows us the same White Knife river, just from an eschewed view. It's as if it's saying, we think they started as Wolves, but the big version is the real stuff. If we magnify the mini-version and rotate it, then Winterfell drops right smack on the Lonely Hills. West of Long Lake we can see an almost vertical mountain range (where the Mountain Clans come from). There's only one other mountain range that is this vertical and in that particular shape of a "spine": the Bone Mountains. And it has a sea east of it that feeds into a river: the Bleeding Sea. In the right location more south east of the Bleeding Sea we have the Mountains of the Morn. In other words: from Wolfswood and Winterfell we go to Long Lake and Loneley to Bleeding Sea and Mountains of the Morn. Now let's move back from the map of The East (of the Bone Mountains) to that of Westeros and the North in particular. South of the Dreadforth and its Weeping Water river, we see Sheepshead Hills which feeds into the river called Broken Branch. The shape of the river? The same as that of the White Knife (the three streams) And then I repeat that the Wolf's Den is located at the end of the White Knife. So we have Winterfell and Starks' origin/founding in connection with Dawn and two places of origin, which is actually a copy of the Great Empire of the Dawn, the Bleeding Sea and the Mountains of Morn(ing) in particular. Then we get the same river much smaller sized east of the White Knife and more south in relation to the Long Lake, and it's basically saying that the Targs of the Valyrians (sheepherders) are a Broken Branch. And then as an extra, much further to the east we have Widow's Watch (aka Dany at Slaver's Bay in comparison to Old Valyria) Dawn = Lightbringer Starks born out of a union of descendants of Brandon of the Bloody Blade (red lake) and a lonely GEotD descendant (Daynes) The Valyrians descendants of the GEotD, and thus so are the Targs, their broken branch Dany by herself Those are all examples on how the Wolf's Den serves to tell us something of the present in relation to the past.

Kingsguard are also called "white swords", aka Dawn. The "scales" is then a reference to dragons.

Exactly! Argilac didn't know about the ward. It's a forgotten knowledge. He just thought that Brandon was an architect and that the miracle was the round wall. And if he was a cultural Andal he probably ended up buying the propaganda and believed SE was built by Andals. Of course we don't know whether a ward can stop a dragon's flame. It may prevent a dragon from flying across, but a dragon may still burn it with a fly by.