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sweetsunray

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  1. That's also how read that line. Brienne has an issue with reading faces, especially emotions in faces. Her descriptions of faces are very factually descriptive, but lack emotional reading, and she tends to take words literally. Double entendres are not her strong suit. I suspect Brienne was written in a manner to being impaired to some level to read body language, especially facial language. And LS's glimmering eyes are an example of this. The picture of LS with the crown and studying the sword and the letter strikes me as very Cat-like, melancholic and sad. Sure she's harsh and not open to believing what those she believes guilty proclaim in defence of their innocence. But even that is not that much different of Cat with Tyrion. The major difference imo is that if Cat could still doubt herself when alive and therefore hold back, she has become more ruthless. I don't consider he a monster at all, nor without emotions. Even desiring revenge is a human emotion. And while Cat may have been dead for several days before she was resurrected, she was also resurrected but once, while Beric was resurrected so many times he couldn't even remember his home, what food was like, etc. She's mostly a tragic, sad character to me.
  2. LS's draft wounds like the rotting cheek were transferred to Brienne. That's interesting, because it makes Brienne an extension of LS in some way. I've recently had a debate on whether Jeyne Heddle and Gendry were truly part of the BwB. I consider both as agents of the BwB. Someone else questioned whether that was the case. This draft puts Jeyne Heddle and Gendry very strongly in the BwB camp. As for the broken BwB. I notice that Thoros was entirely absent. It seems to me that initially George wanted to write the BwB under LS as some people who were only loyal to Beric having left entirely, but having gained support with the smallfolk (the mentioning of the spying network) + survivors of Robb's army. In the current version only Edric Dayne is truly missing. Thoros is still part of the BwB though fawning romantic over the days with Beric, giving the impression that the BwB is broken and has little support on the surface, but Thoros is a bit of a hypocrit - Beric hanged men without much trial too (see Arya's witness account of the hangings of Bloody Mummers), and they always stripped the dead of their armor and helmets and swords (same scene - waste not, want not). In Jaime's POV we get the hints that there is a large network of smallfolk at work against Freys and Lannisters and in support of LS's BwB, at least in the Riverlands. There have been speculations that some lost factions of Robb's army that didn't even make it across the Trident to get to the RW have still wandered the Riverlands and have joined the BwB. I'd say this is still the case. So the make-up of the BwB would be the same in both versions, but George kept it more under wraps in the final version, rather than blatantly showing it already in Brienne's final aFfC chapter before Jaime gets captured. It's interesting they're saying they're also looking for Sansa. It seems to have shifted to looking for Arya. But it raises the possibility that the Mad Mouse is one of those seeking Sansa for LS.
  3. I think he left it out here, because Bran's voyage to Bloodraven's cave was cut from aFfC entirely and moved towards aDwD. I do suspect that he will use and intends to use Bran to intervene in other POVs, such as Theon's at the Ice Lakes and Jaime in front of the slender weirwood at Riverrun after the Red Wedding 2.0. George set up Bran in Theon's plot by having him interact already in Theon's chapters at WF in aDwD. There's no reason to believe Bran will cease doing that via a weirwood on an island in the middle of an iced lake, especially since Theon's last interaction with Bran via weirwood at WF was about Theon's wish to die mercifully and be free from Ramsay. It also makes sense in Jaime's arc, since Bran's first dream awakening follows from Jaime's act to throw him from the tower and this was a nightmate that haunted Bran as far as aSoS. The event triangle of Bran-Jaime and Cat was set up in aCoK in Jaime's prison cell at Riverrun, when Jaime confesses freely what he did to Cat, the same day she learned that Bran and Rickon were dead. Add Jaime realizing who was behind the catspaw (Joffrey), Cat's wounds on her hands, and Bran being able to know and see the truth of that plot (imho likely Cersei who manipulated Joffrey after she learned of Joffrey's argument with Tyrion on the subject of sending a "dog to kill a dog"), and instead of LS beheading Jaime in front of the ww like Robb once did with Karstark, Bran's intervention via tree, breaks her and sends Jaime on his way to Casterly Rock where I expect Cersei to retreat shortly before Aegon takes KL. We have another weirwood at CR, and that would be the third ww-Bran intervention with Bran facing Cersei herself. Bran will judge as Ned once predicted one day.
  4. No, I don't think so. While Tyrosh and Lys have pirates to catch slaves, the Three Cities are not the biggest slave providers, nor do they train slaves. The training of slaves is done in Slaver's Bay by Ghis and Volantis. With the drop off slaves in Slaver's Bay being trained and sold, Tyrosh and Lys pirates have started to seek new grounds to catch slaves, such as in Hardhome, but they still don't have training centres. Once Slaver's bay and Volantis is put to heel violently, especially with the Dothraki following Dany, the slave market will fall dry, as there will be no training anymore to the standard they expect to pay for. Another issue for the Three Sisters is that they barely have their own armies. They've majorly relied on the companies for hire. While there are many companies, most are small ones (less than 100 knights/warriors). There are only a few large companies, the largest being the Golden Company. The Golden Company is fighting a war in Westeros for themselves. Storm Crows, Second Sons (per pre-release of Tyrion's chapters of tWoW) and now the Windblown side with Dany. And she also has also all the Unsullied (actually trained in defense), and a navy of Ironborn who will at some point get renowned for smashing the navy of Volantis. George might invent some other company of 2000 men, and pile up some small companies along with it. But how they will defend three different cities against Dany's army after Volantis falls is nonsensical to me. On top of that, we know companies prefer being on the winning side over money even. Not any of the Three Sisters I imagine can pay those small and mediocre companies enough to fight against Dothraki, Unsullied, superior and larger companies and Ironborn and dragons. I also consider the Three Sisters smart enough to realize this themselves, and instead of offering resistance, with the fall out of the slave training market, will make a voluntarily peace offer - that they submit to her abolishment of slavery in return for peace and her not destroying their cities. Dany will accept and head for Pentos to teach Illyrio a lesson in betraying her (and her brother) for Aegon.
  5. We have Tyrion's AND Jaime's reasoning. There are some oddities with it, sure. Imho Tyrion assumes and Cersei claims it was because of something Robert said. But we have Jaime saying it in front of Tommen and Myrcella, and Cersei was actually of the same opinion and spends the most time with Joffrey. Jaime believes Cersei on her word at the time when she "complains" Robert wished for it in front of Joffrey's hearing. But do us readers have any reason to believe Cersei on her word? Is it not possible that Cersei ended up planting the idea in Joffrey's head? She had the best motive to want Bran dead. She loves to "think aloud" and hint at people - like she hinted Jaime to hunt and kill Arya, and Sandor hunt and kill Mycah. She spends the most time with Joffrey otherwise. That's what is imo "off". But there's nothing off imo with an arrogant cruel kid of 12 believing he can "command" some guy to go kill Bran once they leave, and let the catspaw take his pick from the hundreds of hunted knives gifted to Robert with which he never hunts anyway. Stupid catspaw sees a VS dagger and wants it. The silver is extra. So, why catspaw and not Sandor? Well there's where Cersei comes in imo. She's bold, stupid, but also cunning enough. She knew Sandor would be out of the question. IMHO, Joffrey complained to Cersei about the words he had with Tyrion, shortly after she left Tyrion and Jaime to themselves. When she learned of the reason of the argument "sending a dog to kill a dog", she realized she could manipulate Joffrey into sending someone to get rid of Bran for good, and defended Joffrey's opinion over Tyrion's, but mentioned somehow that it would be better to send a "cat(spaw)" to do the work than a known knight who's Joffrey's bodyguard. And Cersei suggested it all in such a way, that Joffrey felt it was his own brilliant plan. And then when Robert came to their private living quarters, she made sure to goad him into saying "It would be a mercy to just kill him". Then when Jaime confronts Cersei about it, discussing Tyrion's potential motive, Cersei is confronted with the potential backlash of the catspaw attempt. As the convo continues and Jaime is not so easily persuaded to think of Tyrion as the monster, Cersei imo becomes more cautious on what she reveals regarding the catspaw, including projecting the wish onto Robert and how Robert was irresponsible by talking mercy-killing in front of Joffrey. It sounds too much like an easy scapegoat for Cersei and to deflect any suspicion of her. At this point she's not convinced Jaime would choose her over Tyrion. Revealing that she either supports Joffrey in this act or even instigated it via manipulation would make her lose Jaime's support, despite the fact that he was the hand who threw Bran from the tower. She can already sense that something is different about Jaime.
  6. The big difference is that Val is speaking specifically about greyscale, which is infectuous. She's using 3 sets of arguments: 1) it's irresponsible towards other people who might get infected 2) Shyreen will die of it eventually 3) Val wants Gilly's baby far away from Shyreen. Falling from towers and lying in a coma isn't infectuous. That is not to say that "mercy killing" is not part of Free Folk culture (I imagine it would be), but it's also very much part of Westerosi culture south of the Wall: Jaime's comments in front of Cersei, Tyrion and 2 of his children, Cersei's thoughts and opinions on it to Tyrion, the innuendo between Joffrey and Sandor (no they were not just talking about putting down Summer), Cersei's claim that Robert made such a statement, Sandor teaching Arya how to mercy kill, Arya and the BwB mercy killing the prisoners in their cages at Stony Sept, Joffrey referring to Ned's beheading as a mercy (and his leg stinking and rotting).
  7. Warriors who fight amongst themselves who gets to lead. And again, the "war" was not something that needed to be pushed by Mance by sending a catspaw to Bran. The Lannisters did that quite fine by themselves. Ned didn't really investigate Bran's catspaw incident in KL. He stumbled over evidence of Robert's bastards and Cersei's infedility and children being Jaime's. When he confronted her, he stated that Cersei and Jaime pushed Bran from the tower to make him fall, but the catspaw isn't even mentioned. Even if Cat had not kidnapped Tyrion, Ned and Cersei were heading towards a clash over the heir of the throne, and Robert was going to die. Ned would have been thrown down in the dungeon, Tywin would have sent his dogs loose onto the Riverlands because it's closer than the North and easy pickings and he loves any excuse to send harsh messages (he never actually needed Cat's arrest of Tyrion for that... it was just the first opportunity for him to do so). And you still have Robb going south with an army, and Joffrey chopping off Ned's head. All the catspaw really did was wake up Cat from her misery, appreciate the wolves, get her away from Winterfell, have Cat end up an agent to make Ned trust Littlefinger (but LF is capable of doing that without Cat just as well), and be the opportunity Tywin was itching for to push back against Tullies and Starks in power near the IT. Hell, Varys anticipated war between the allies for years.
  8. Kudoz for the effort to try to tie this together, but it all falls apart on the fact that Ned Stark was already going South. There is absolutely no need for Mance to set up an assassination plot onto Bran's life in order to make sure Ned Stark goes south. In fact, if Cat had sent a speedy courrier after Ned after the assassination, that courrier would have reached Ned shortly after crossing the Neck and he would have turned back and go straight back to WF. As @kissdbyfire mentioned - there are too many unreliable vectors and unknown outcomes of such a plot. That's why it makes sense it was handled by a stupid kid like Joffrey. I agree it makes sense for Mance to want Ned Stark to be far down South by the time he intends to breach the Wall, so Ned could not come to the NW's aid. But he did not have to do anything to make that happen. He went to WF, learned of Ned's appointment as Hand and intention to go South, and all he had to do at this point is thank the Old Gods for so much luck.
  9. Anyway George explained the names of wives already in the same SSM I already referenced: So, nope... women do not automatically take a husband's name. aCoK discussion about who's to inherit House Hornwood during the harvest feast in Bran's chapter reveals there's a lot of flexibility when it comes to the sirname - basically heirs with blood ties (legitimate or not) take on the name of the house they stand to inherit. Beren Tallhart's mother is née Hornwood and one of the suggestions is that he alters his name into Beren Hornwood and become Lord Hornwood. Larence Snow, who's Lord Hornwood's bastard son fostered at Deepwood Motte, is an alternative candidate. His name too would alter to Hornwood. Bear Island is a remote island and seems to function and live mostly by itself. Despite there being the occasional harvest feast at WF and Cat having lived at WF for 15 years, being its Lady Stark beside her husband Lord Ned Stark, she never met Maege or Dacey Mormont before personally, though she met and spoke with Lynesse whenever Jorah and his wife came down to WF for feasts. We thus know that Maege and her daughters never bothered to cross to the mainland since Cat came north, didn't come to the feasts. And of course hardly anybody ever goes to Bear Island. It creates the right amount of isolation for Maege to do as she pleases, have daughters out of wedlock by any man of her choosing and name them all Mormont. Nobody's going to tell her she can't, not once she's Lady of Bear Island, nor would any Lord Stark if the Mormonts are staunchest allies and bodyguards. At the very least they don't create inheritance issues as House Hornwood did.
  10. Makes sense. We don't know who's Jorah's mother is really. Must be Maege! Alysane, Dacey and Jorah are siblings!
  11. If we go by Lord Varys' premisse, then we now must conclude that Maege Mormont married a Mormont Woot more incest. But Jeor doesn't know about it
  12. I know, but I don't consider Tormund, Maege's or Alysane's "bear". He is another bear character in the books, but there are plenty. There's always a bear in George's aSoIaF plots. Tormund's tall story is written imo to help the reader identify Tormund as a bear character in Jon's plot, a replacement of Jeor to Jon. Free Folk have no sigils, so George has to use other ways, such as stories, names, pelts worn, etc... Mormonts are black bears (sigil). Umbers and Tormund are giant white snow bears (giants are bearlike, Tormund is white haired, and aside from she-bear story he wintered in the womb of a giant and suckled). Lothor Brune is a brown bear (name Brune and House Brune sigil).
  13. Yes, I would lean to these Ladies being the heirs of their house and née Waynwood, Oakheart and Stokeworth, for the same reason, especially with grown sons. That said I would not automatically assume a woman who's "the head of a house" to be born to the house (see Lady Dustin) and we also explicitly know that the three you bring up are widowed. She has little reason to exchange stories to her enemy, right? Seems a weird argument in light of Alysane's openness here The above is the complete context of the conversation: she reveals to Asha how many sisters she has, where they are (though Maege's wheareabouts are undisclosed), the age of her children, etc... She's already exchanging rather sensitive and vital information to her enemy. Her "no" to Asha's statement that she is wed itself is not facetious. We know this, because Asha's comment about marriage was not a question. People respond facetiously with the opposite to a question, not to a statement. It would look like this if it was completely facetious: On to Maege Sure, Jeor disbelieves the whole story, and indeed brings it up to comment on a tall story, but you're missing the point. The claim his sister took a bear for a lover precedes the tall story about a bear of fifteen feet tall. Jeor is Maege's brother and while he seriously questions his sister's story, you would expect her brother (who was once the head of the house) to know who she married and who fathered her children and whether she's widowed or not. But even Jeor has no knowledge of that. He's not an enemy. He's her older brother, once head of House Mormont, then LC of the NW, with whom she grumpily argues by letter and sends the ancestral VS sword to. Why the hell would a married or widowed woman, who is now the head of her house, keep her husband a secret to her own brother? Why would such a woman purposefully create a situation where people question how she came to have 5 daughters (and potentially raise questions about the legitimacy of her heirs)? In a society where kids of nobility are instructed in learning house names, words, sigils and current heads by heart? In a society where it's everybody's business who is who? Just for the heck of it? As for George, if there is no mystery intended with Maege (and Alysane), if they were widowed like Anya Waynwood, Tanda Stokeworth, etc. then he showed with the other women how easily he could have avoided mystery: just mention they're widowed. He inserts deceased wives who died in childbed or from a chill and dead husbands as background story wherever he pleases, but not just avoids doing that for Maege. He repeats it with her heir. And he brings it up in an interview. It is not written in by George just as a joke, but treated as a mystery for us to make us wonder about.
  14. Oh, it does happen that heirs get the name of their mother, if her husband is either of a minor house or something. However, do you have any evidence that Lady Oakheart, Lady Waynwood and Tanda Stokeworth are in fact née Oakheart, Waynwood and Stokeworth, or are they the widows of the deceased Lord Oakheart, Lord Waynwood, Lord Stokeworth? Take for instance Lady Dustin. She's the head of House Dustin, because she's the widow of Lord Dustin. She's née Ryswell though. In case of bastards becoming heirs, yes they too may be given the legal right to acquire the name of their house, but then this tends to be done for that particular bastard child, while the other bastards are still referred to as a Snow/Rivers/Sand/Storm/Stone. More, it's the king who decrees this, not the head of the house. In case of Alysane though we know she is unmarried. She explicitly tells Asha she is unmarried, before she answers her children were fathered by a bear. And we have something similar from Jeor's mouth. Now Jeor may disbelieve the lover was in fact a bear. I would too. But the point here is "lover". Jeor did not say "my sister is said to have taken a bear for a husband". Maege and Alysane are unwed, the father purposefully kept anonymous and totemic, yet their children aren't called Snow. Something is going on here, and it ain't "they're married to a third son of a lesser house or peasant", let alone "they're protecting their husband from the Ironborn" when Alysane has no issues with mentioning her only son is a babe of 2 on Bear Island with Lyanna Mormont (a kid sister) as supervisor.
  15. Of course she's facetious. Even if Mormont women are skinchangers, we know they don't actually shift into a bear shape and get preggers that way. So, their children were fathered by human males. However, either that makes their children bastards or normally would give the children the name of their father's house. Maege had her daughters while Jorah was Lord of Bear Island. Alysane wasn't Maege's heir until her eldest sister died at the Red Wedding. But somehow, Maege's daughters and Alysane's children all go by the House name Mormont. The "fathered by bears" claim is used imo to preserve the house name amongst their children, no matter whether they were fathered by a peasant, a lover, or a husband. Totemic bear ancestry and bear-maiden weddings were real thing rituals in the past. The Wayland the Smith legend is a remnant of it (he's a hidden bear figure: that is "generally described as a man, but often surrounded by bear attributes," such as sleeping on a bear skin, or being captured while bear staeks are cooking, living alone in a forest, ...). In our folkloristic histories a maiden would be picked who would go through a wedding ritual with a dead bear (after ritualistic capture), as a bride was the gift in thanks for his death, and his death and capture was important for a village, as they believed a bear to be the guardian of the forest. One bear a year was believed to bring them good hunting of other forest fauna. But a bear was like a man (a skinned bear looks humanoid), could understand human speech, had a bird spirit, was a fertility male symbol akin to bulls in the mediterranean, and very vengeful even after death if he felt cheated. The wedding ritual was one of the things people did to placate that possible vengeful spirit. Wayland the Smith tells the story of a bear's vengeance if his captor (a king) refuses to give Wayland the bride (his daughter) and keeps him laboring for him like a prisoner (instead of burrying him and allowing his bird spirit to fly to his brothers in the afterlife): he kills the king's sons and "rapes" or "seduces" the princess. Her child by him becomes the new heir and the sword he made is given to the princess (the mother of his child). Many elements surrounding this have been worked in by George, in particularly with the Mormont women. Aside from the "fathered by bears" comment, we also learn of the special carving at their house of a naked lady wearing a bear skin and holding an axe while suckling her child. On top of that Maege sent the Mormont VS sword that Jorah left behind to her brother Jeor at the Wall. Northern, bear island, mostly forest, skinchanging, absent/unknown fathers, claim their children were fathered by bears, children carrying on the house name (despite such children either would be regarded bastards or havign their father's name), swords, a type of special lady with a dead bear's pelt and child: it all fits the folklore George must have used for inspiration. So, why do the Mormont women claim their children were fathered by bears? Since the previous totemic bear line would die out via Jorah, it's up to the women to make sure the Mormont line continues and does not lose their rights to bear island. Their house is protected from being taken via wedding by a husband or his ancestral house (like the Lannisters and Boltons attempt with Sansa and fArya, or Baratheon did by marrying Argilac's daughter), or by an outsider who would accuse the Mormont women of only having bastards. Since the previous bear line has gone extinct, they must establish a new bear-line and that can only be done with the claim that their children were fathered by a bear. Sending the sword that is tied to the bear-line that dies with Jorah to Jeor is a sign that Maege admits the previous totemic-bear-line has ended and she is establishing a new totemic bear-line, like the female ancestor on the carving above their hall. Not only does Alysane reveal and hint at this for the reader to figure out what's going on with House Mormont - Alysane gave Asha a hint on how to establish her own Greyjoy line if she is to acquire the rule over the Iron Islands. Before being captured Asha had intercourse and she has not had any chance to take something to prevent pregnancy. The father is a lover and not someone she's bound to wed. In fact, she was already wed by proxy. If Asha is smart and takes the hint of Alysane, and ends up preggers, she can proclaim herself a kraken skinchanger and claim her child was fathered by a kraken, and therefore her child would be a Greyjoy. Remember that Alysane's talk of her children being fathered by bears occurs in the context of a southern landless lord hoping to be allowed to wed Asha, so he can become master of a castle and Iron Islands. Alysane is not actually hostile to Asha at all, but guarding her from such men and anyone wanting to avenge the Ironborn attacks on the north, not as a guard of a captive (though Asha sees it that way initially), but as a protective bodyguard. The main reason for this is because Asha has hostages with her uncle - the heirs of Lord Glover, the children of his sister in law. Their house and Sybelle may have been liberated, but Asha sailed for the Iron Islands with Sybelle and her children for the Kingsmoot, and upon her return to Deepwood Motte, she brought Sybelle, but Sybelle's children remained at her nuncle's. It's also imo the reason why the man who swore at Asha and hit her on the head later apologizes to Asha. Why the northerners may clamor for Theon's execution, but not one of them demands Asha's head. I also think that Alysane left to liberate Deepwood Motte, way before Stannis sent his letters to the Northern houses. That's why Lyanna Mormont wrote the reply to Stannis - her sister, the new heir of Maege was not at Bear Island anymore. Nor do I believe Alysane decided it on her own, but left under the directive of Maege and Lord Glover - a letter sent to Bear Island, before Maege and Glover sailed to the Neck from Mallisser's house. Lord Glover would have apprehended retaliation against his sister in law and hairs once Northerners would move against Vic at Moat Cailin, and thus his house and the hostages liberated. But the Kingsmoot threw a timing wrench into that plan. Once Alysane got there, Asha was gone to the Kingsmoot with Sybelle and her children. So, she had to wait for Asha's return, only to then learn only Sybelle was returned. Once Stannis made his move onto Deepwood Motte, Alysane's hand was forced. She had to make a move, to ensure no Ironborn could sail to her uncle and retaliate against the hostages at Asha's nuncle and reveal her presence to Stannis and the other mountain clan Northerners to make sure no harm could come to Asha. Anyway, more on the totemic-bear-line can be read in here: https://sweeticeandfiresunray.com/2015/12/05/bear-ancestry/
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