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sweetsunray

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  1. While I agree with most of your post, I think this assumption that Bowen, the accountant of the Watch, wouldn't know about acquiring a loan from the Iron Bank is a step too far. It's not as if it was a secret at the Wall who Tycho Nestoris was, that he met with Jon, that Tycho allowed the NW to use his ships for the first rescue attempt of Hardhome. Sure, we don't have a specific meeting where Jon gives Marsh the good news about this, but surely we don't need that. We have had several meetings between Jon and Marsh about the food stores, rationing, etc. Jon entrusts Marsh with tallying all that the wildlings gifted the NW to be allowed to cross, which Jon wants to send to Eastwatch and from there to the Iron Bank as part of the repayment of his loan. If Marsh is to tally that and is even entrusted to communicate with Eastwatch about this, I don't think one has much a case for claiming Jon kept the awarded loan a secret. So, we can say - No, Marsh did not behave differently.
  2. Maester yandel dismisses the existence of greenseers, and a whole lot of stuff. When Yandel dismisses something look closer. Same for Luwin dismissing magic. Yandel dismisses the existence of proto-dragonriders despite being so close to it, when he elaborates on the Black Stone at Battle Isle. "What an enigma! Black fused stone, but missing the frivolity of the Valyarians, predating the Valyarians. And we have evidence that some people settled here before the arrival of the First Men. Even tales about dragons. Oh and we have an Uthor (Uther Pendragon - aka head dragon). It's almost as if some other lost people who used to be dragonriders settled here. But that can't be, because I accept that Valyrians were the first. Certainly not the Hightowers!" Who says they didn't conquer? Have you looked at the map how big the "empire" was? Leng + Yi Ti + Hyrkoon + Jogos Nhai + Asshai. That looks like a big chunk of the map conquered. And if these people migrated after the collapse of their empire and mingled with some promising sheep herders at a peninsula, there's no need to "teach" them anything. What if the dragonriding Valyrians were mostly people who fled and migrated across the Bones to Valyria absorbing the local sheepherders, and then their claim that they were the first to know about dragonriding still works. And they conquered a great deal after that. No it's not confirmed who built the five forts exactly. Some claim it was the Pearl Emperor who built it. This would have been the first dynasty of the Great Empire of the Dawn. They are of the exact same durable fused material as anything else that dragonfire helped to fuse. So, they were most likely built by people who rode dragons. And the five forts are at the border of what was once the Great Empire of the Dawn. Hmmmm. Who could it have been? It's like the claim of the Last Hero wielding a sword of dragonsteel. Hmmm, how is it possible that some bloke during the LN wielded a sword that was referred to as dragonsteel, "before there were Valyrians and dragonriders". Well duh, because there were proto Valyarians, who had a nice unique one of a kind steel sword with the same properties of Valyrian Steel, that can give off light just the ghosts Dany sees, who just happen to have eyes like gemstones exactly like the dynasties are named of the Great Empire of the Dawn. Daynes, Dawn, Daenys, Daenerys...Hmmmm. Could Yandel be wrong? Or the Grey King slaying the "sea" dragon Nagga, making its bones for its hall and living of its fires, after death. For some reason Nagga's bones still stand (dragon bones are as near indestructible). I'm more inclined to consider Nagga a pre-Valyarian dragon that got killed and plummeted into the sea, until the carcass washed ashore the Iron Islands. The maesters like to claim the Ironborn were First Men, despite the very obvious issue that the First Men migrated via the land bridge and weren't the best of mariners. Hmmm, another anomaly. But let's dismiss iron, durable dragon bones, a fused seastone chair (albeit greasy) and marining, because "there were no dragons and no dragonriders before Valyaria". As I said, the maesters are quite dogmatic in their beliefs about dragonriders and dragons existing before Valyria, so much they dismiss each and any of the archeological finds to the contrary, throw up their arms and sigh "It doesn't fit. So dunno." The answer is so obvious. But the answer is one of the Citadel's taboo. The Black Stone at Battle Isle The Five Forts Nagga's bones and a black stone sea stone chair that went missing mariners: Ironborn, Hightowers, Daynes, with the first two having indications of originating from slavers iron forging in the bronze age of the FM (Ironborn and Daynes) There's your conquest efforts by pre-Valyarian dragonlords. Yes, I know BE and Leng and K'dath, etc are nods at Lovecraft. It's still incorporated in the world building. Church of Starry Wisdom and Starry Sept at Oldtown for example. Nods at lovecraft do not negate theorizing. Just my 2ç
  3. There are no penguins in the arctic, only the antarctic. But yes, names for bears are euphemistic terms: brown, honey eater, etc. More here: https://sweeticeandfiresunray.com/bears-and-maidens/
  4. The repeat of Sam here (with capitals) in a rebirth scene is for me a reference to Lord of Light by Zelazny. Protagonist Sidharta is rebirthed into a body (from Nirvana) and he goes by the name of Sam (an acronym). George considers it one of the top 5 sci fi fantasies ever written, and has admitted that Samwell was named for Zelazny's character. Gilly is for a second time featured as a stand in for the corpse queen, aka the thing that only comes in the night, at the Nightfort (the rat cook's kitchen to be precise). Summer scares the bejebus out of the corpse queen and makes her son (an Other) cry.
  5. With regards to the Qartheen claim about the origin of dragons, I would caution against taking that literally. There is enough world book info on the Great Empire of the Dawn and Asshai to back the idea that this civilization had dragons and dragonriders (elite) - such as the 5 forts of fused black stone. Asshai's present state since the LN and the tales of the collapse of that empire, with now only the Golden Empire of Yi Ti remaining (Yi Ti means "remains"of the dead) makes it impossible for me to think the dragons only came into being then. They already had dragons for a long time, and built that great empire of the Dawn with it, imo, from the Bones until Asshai. But the tales of the BE and "slavery" suggests he was an expanionist, who went beyond the Bones, westward, including as far as Westeros on Battle Isle. BE wanted to be emperor of the whole planet. Qarth and the Qaathi of the grasslands were west of the Bones. So, from their historical POV the dragons came after the cataclysm that caused the Long Night, not before. They hadn't seen or knew of fire breathing dragons before that westward expansion.
  6. The impact would put the remainder in a different path and alter its mass, and then Keppler's law would cause it to have the remainder have a different path, and the torn part would become the red wanderer's moon/satellite (aka what happened with earth and the moon). So, no I don't think anything that drastic occurred with the red wanderer, not with George pointing out how regularly cyclic it is and hinting it was since the Great Empire of the Dawn. But here's a possible solution to the idea of the red wanderer and red comet both being Lion of Night: When the Lion of Night is mentioned together with the Maiden made of Light this is "red wanderer/planet in moonmaid constellation" When the Maiden made of Light turns away and the Lion of Night came forth in his wroth we now have a sky where the stars are either not visible anymore (like a nuclear winter? or heavy volcanic eruption? Dust in atmosphere that prevents stars from being seen for a long period) or the constellation has moved beneath the horizon (which it would do yearly for months as with most constellations). The Lion of Night "comes forth" suggests that a red object becomes very visible as if close and the "wroth" would be like a streak of "dragonfire". In other words, in this phrase the Lion of Night would have been the red comet. Conclusion: the blood betrayal occurred during the Best Time to Steal a woman (red planet in moonmaid constellation), and after the blood betrayal, something happened that obscured the stars out of sight and this coincided with the passing of the red comet. Celestially both red planet and red comet are two different objects, but the people living in those times conflated them both for imaginative/poetic/tale reasons. To them it looked as if the red wanderer (a god) was so angry that he decided to go out of orbit, come very close and breath fire in his wroth (the tail of the red comet). It just was a celestial coincidence of two different celestial objects (a planet and a comet) doing their thing in the eye of the beholder almost simultaneously. The elite would have known these were different things, but the singers and commoners needed to make meaning out of it. And that gives a better story
  7. Since characters can still see the "red wanderer" as a "wanderer" going through its yearly path in relation to the constellations, the "red planet" is still intact, following its path around the sun.
  8. Don't know. Just obvious that the "red wanderer" is a planet similar to our Mars. The Greek word that gave us the word "planet" literally means "wanderer". Greeks saw stars that moved about way differently than the other stars that formed constellations. So, they called these stars "wanderers", aka "planetai". When George writes "red wanderer" he's writing "red planet" (which for us is Mars). It's possible to regard the red comet as war-related, as well as the red wanderer, but the two are definitely not the same celestial body. One is a planet (a wanderer), the other is a comet (from the greek "long haired star") The red wanderer in the moonmaid would be a yearly period (about 20 days). The red comet a far rarer event.
  9. As for the bug and stingng arm sentence. In relation to the arm of Dorne, the Long Night and dragons... the bug "flying" away can be linked to dragons. The first people that likely came to Westeros were the people that made a Black Stone fortress on Battle Isle. The Black Stone fortress is made of fused stone, exactly like the Valyrian roads, but way way before Valyaria. The maesters are somewhat dogmatic about the belief that dragons and dragonriders only ever existed since Valyria. Bran's vision of dragons in Asshai, the lay-out of the empires beyond the Bones and the tales of Great Empire of the Dawn make clear that these god-emperors had dragons and pale light magical swords (like Dawn). They are most likely the proto Valyarians. Oldtown and Hightowers have very suggestive links to BE, whereas the Daynes far more with Amethyst Empress. Heck even their story on the founding of the Dayne castle about "tracking a fallen star" has a dual interpretation: you can't actually "track" or follow the "trace" of a meteor (unless you have modern day real world equipment) or a dragon to hop on and fly. Because a meteorite's fall is not like a comet's fly-by. It's like the Daynes say they followed the head-dragon's tracks, but instead of going as far as Battle Isle, they settled for Starfall. BE's people and dragonriders were not likely to remain friendly with CotF or giants.
  10. I think maesters and people can distinguish between a "star" and a comet. Our Mars is also a red wanderer, appearing as a red star to us, wandering about in comparison to constellations... And yes, it was exactly my point that if people on different sides of a wall refer to the same celestial body and constellations with slightly different names, then that is certainly true at the other side of the planet and 6000 years before that. It's quite clear that we're given a celestial timing for the Blood Betrayal, which seems logically to coincide with the best Thief moment, as the same period starts around Val's return (she challenges Jon to steal into her bed, while dressed in all white... and she's an expert on "stealing"). And when the maiden made of light is gone the lion of night (the thief/red wanderer) goes "berserk". The Lion of Night is an AA figure, not a BE figure.
  11. I think the Lion of NIght is the "red wanderer" or what the Free Folk refer to as the "Thief". We are told several times that the best time to steal a woman is when the "Thief is in the Moonmaiden" as well as that Free Folk and kneelers have different names for the same celestial bodies. So Lion of Night combined with Maiden Made of Light makes me think "Red wanderer" (a planet) in constellsation "Moonmaid".
  12. Makes more sense with a 5 year gap, as something he remembered. That would allow for a "beyond the wall world" where it seems still safe enough to risk going there. Though no doubt some rangers would have ended up dead, where some in CB lost a friend they end up resenting Jon for. Without the gap, George had to ramp up the difficulty of surviving beyond the Wall, and boost the Others' army. So, we have Varamyr's prologue, 9 rangers being sent on 3 different missions with 6 not having returned yet and 3 ending up dead by the Weeper, and Hardhome to save the living. I don't get why you presume Ghost would be north of the Wall? He was last seen in Jon's office. I also consider at least one Other to be just at the north side of the Wall, at the rim of the haunted forest, when Jon's being attacked by Wick and Bowen Marsh and 2 other men of the NW. As soon as his neck was nicked and blood flowed onto the icy ground (connected to the Wall, ice-net so to speak), the magical ward in the Wall is broken, allowing an Other to raise the dead buried in the lichyard (uproooted by Boroq's boar) and imo allowing the Other to pass through the ice wall. Something's happening at CB more than Wun Wun having killed Patrek, making men scream, right after Jon gets nicked. And something's happening to Jon himself too, based on Wick's reaction of waving "wasn't me"! I think the magical ward chooses to have a second life so to speak in Jon and therefore the magical ward still only protects him... The cold he feels is of both the ice Wall merging with him as well as the Other's magic. He doesn't feel the other daggers, because he's magically protected. In that scenario, we'll have a Mel or Bran chapter describing all the crazy happening at CB all at once (including Bran trying to skinchange Patchface who bites his tongue off and resists Bran's effort). And then we get a Jon POV that starts with him in Ghost, before returning to his own body, and he ends up killing the Other at CB and discovers he's some weird superhero. The Others would not do an attack on CB, without also trying to distract Bran and Bloodraven at their cave. So, mayhem there too. And the remaining Others simultaneously attack Hardhome and snuff out all of the fires, having their wight boost of the thousands. The Others would not be hampered themselves by the Wall anymore, but with the physical wall still standing the wight army cannot just pass. Take into account as well that we won't be reading Wall events soon. There is a lot of stuff to catch up on timeline wise: in the Riverlands in the Vale Battle of Ice Braavos Dorne and Stormlands Bran's POV Oldtown Davos and Rickon before we get to the moment of the assassination attempt of Jon. Much of these plots were left hanging about halfway through aDwD, and we know only some of the results through Kevan's epilogue. So, a lot of ground to cover across Westeros between the last we heard or saw anything of these characters, and many of these culminating plots took place between Jon sending Val to search for Tormund and the assassination attempt, off page for us so far. The only plotline George can go forward with straight from where we last saw it is Dothraki Sea and Slaver's Bay. I don't expect to read anything about CB events during or after the assassination attempt on Jon until at least a third in, if not halfway tWoW. Though we likely will get to see stuff at Eastwatch via Davos with Rickon.
  13. The Hammer of the Waters took place when the First Men began to cross. So, if it was used deliberately against a people it wasn't the Andal invasion, but the First Men.
  14. Was that an idea he had when he still tried to do the 5 year gap or after? Looks to me, he transferred a risky ranging beyond the Wall onto Hardhome, which makes more sense as that at least is for men he sent out there and to prevent thousands to be added to the wight army.
  15. I see Meereen being abandoned because of the Pale Mare. The Yunkai threw corpses into the city. The Blue graces (the healers) themselves are dropping by the numbers. It's a dying city Personally, I do not see Dany return to Meereen with the Dothraki army, but just send them to Volantis. Selmy might want to wait for the return of his queen, but Tyrion is smarter than that. I expect Selmy to die of the Pale Mare at Meereen, while Tyrion will motivate them to march and sail for Volantis. Moqoro can see stuff to confirm Dany's alive and where she's going. And she might do a fly-by on Drogon. But overall Meereen is going the way of Astapor
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