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sweetsunray

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About sweetsunray

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    House Rave, For the Critical Watch

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  1. sweetsunray

    Night's Watch vows and the truth of history.

    This touches on the bear stuff too (sorry ;-) ). The typical weapon to "properly" kill a bear is either bow and arrow or spear, and thus bearlike characters despise the former weapon (it could be the weapon they're hunted with). Meanwhile, the folklore mythological baer characters are smiths and gifters of magical swords. George used the last trope with Jeor Mormont gifting Jon the sword Longclaw to do great deeds with. Now at the Fist George starts to play with the hunter or hunted theme. In the prologue of aSoS, Chett's supposed to hunt down a bear, because Dywen had noticed bear tracks. As they are "hunting" this unseen bear, they talk about "killing the Old Bear". They decide to not further pursue the snowbear hunt, but instead return to witness Samwell's efforts at shooting arrows at a tree. Now Samwell gets bear references: when Jon first sees him he thinks he looks ready to "hibernate", he loves sweets and anything with "honey", and Gilly's mother tells Sam to take dead Jeor's pelt for his own, Jeor's sword and run with Gilly before "the sons" arrive. So, in that image we have a bearlike character who hates the bow and arrows, hates hunting in general, trying to practice hunting himself. And at night, the wights attack the Fist, with the wighted snowbear (that Chett had been unwittingly tracking at the start) hunting the Night's Watch. Now since "winter is coming", the "hunted NW" (hunted by wights and Others north of the wall) need to learn to become hunters themselves, and thus learn to wield bow and arrow, not just swords. That's why I find this thread you started so interesting: it's touching on the essential of the NW that I find again and am working at in a draft of a bar essay about the NW. You seem to imply or ponder whether the sword is a "later Andal addition". I don't think the swords is a southrun addition. After all the legends of the Last Hero and Azor Ahai speak of swords. The sword has always been important, and is part of the creed and part of the vows used at the Black Gate: I am the sword in the darkness. Why else woudl the Others be wary of Royce's steel initially otherwise? They have been confronted with a deadly sword before. Also, Jon's use of the words "knights" is not just completely unprecedented in the North. Other northmen use the word "knight" at times, despite the fact they mean a "warrior" and keep to the First Gods. Whether annointed or not by the Andal faith, a knight is a professional fighter who was trained since boyhood to fight with a sword and to hunt. From the get go, the NW would have been manned with professional fighters of noble families, even in the earliest days, before the Andals, and they would have carried swords. You only get an increase of commoners once it became a penal colony, and yes these would have likely been put to bow and arrow training to be useful on top of the wall. It's because the Children were believed to be long dead, and the NW weren't given obsidian arrows anymore, and Others were also believed to be fairytales, that they forgot about the need for bow and arrow. I'd say that once the barrier was chosen, and walls started to be built, that you had two important armed factions: the men on the walls with bow and obsidian arrows, the rangers venturing into territory of the Others with dragonsteel swords to confront an Other at close range. But after the threat of the Others was forgotten or laid at rest in the minds of the NW and instead only perceived humans as their enemies (wildings), that they put the bow and arrow down. The wall had become so high, you can barely aim at just one small tiny human target, and the Starks took such great care of the North for so many thousand years that the NW barely had to fear an attack from the South to defend themselves from with bows and arrows. But now they know who they have to fight from the Wall, and the only material known to the NW (at present) that can kill Others is the little bit of obsidian. Making an obsidian sword seems absurd, but distributing the stash of obsidian they have and chipping it in tiny pieces to make arrowheads of is an economical and practical necessity.
  2. sweetsunray

    Night's Watch vows and the truth of history.

    This touches upon a question some of my bear essays try to answer at the moment (only draft). Which creature sleeps during the long night or "winter"... which animal "hibernates"? Bears den during winter, but the long night = long winter. In folklore bear characters are protectors, guardians, but also strong, powerful and vengeful. Now, Jeor Mormont is an obvious bear character, but there are many other brothers of the Night's Watch that are tied to key-words and concepts that make it possible to regard them as a bearlike character, though they have no such obvious sigil. It's not just in the NIght's Watch, but there are significantly more "bearlike" characters there than any other region or group of people. So, the "sleepers" could mean the night's watch brothers. Note how the wight attack on Jeor happened at night, while he was "sleeping". The attack at the Fist same thing: Jon finds a horn there, then there's a plot to kill the Old Bear and Samwell (who is one of those hidden bear characters) in the aSoS prologue, Chett's about to kill the sleeping Sam just as the horns blow thrice and the camp is attacked by the wights and a giant of a viciously angry snowbear. It could also mean "giants", since Jon observes that giants are "bearlike". Another hidden bear character I like to use as an example here is Tyrion: Aemon (who has a bearskin to keep warm) calls Tyrion a Giant (who kept the bearskin that Benjen gave him), while Jon thinks of Tyrion as a small bear when he comes up the wall huddled in that bearskin. Another characters that matches giants to bears is Tormund: there's his story of crawling into the belly of a giant to survive a harsh winter, and once she wakes she suckles him believing him to be her child. It's basically the story of bearcubs being born in the dead of winter in the den, and until a few decades ago people still believed that cubs were born to a bear mom while she was asleep. Meanwhile his second story again references hibernation concept when Tormund went looking for this woman he desired, who was a she-bear.. It's a winter snowstorm when he goes looking for her, at night, but when he wakes it's warm, aka that was a bear's night (as Craster calls it), or not 1 night, but a whole season of nights, until spring. Finally it could mean "mountains": a horn that can cause earthquakes or something. Mountains are geographical giants. The largest man in the books, of whom Ned thinks as a 'giant' is nicknamed 'The Mountain that Rides', and Jaime compares the black bear that Brienne has to fight to the Mountain (paraphrasing: "a bear without a pelt") So, you have the combo of words or characters or features that George puts together: bears, giants, mountains... who need to be woken from their wintersleep. IMO the horn that wakes the sleepers means that they have to remain watchful and wake up those that tend to go sleep at night or nod off in winter, the bearlike characters who are warriors and guardians, but can't help becoming sleepy when it's cold.
  3. sweetsunray

    Wow, I never noticed that v.16

    He was. The orphanage is LS's last hope to find Arya. Here's why LS and Gendry would know that fArya married to Ramsay isn't the real Arya. BwB and Gendry both know that Arya was with them and afterwards with Sandor as far as the Twins for sure. They were after all pursuing Sandor, when they came across the body of LS that Nym pulled out of the river. Then they interrogated two Freys who helped out and were present at the Red Wedding. One's already hanged, but we know BwB ask Merret Frey about Arya without using her name. He doesn't even have a clue of any girl found or killed at the RW, and yet he is trusted enough by Walder Frey to carry the ransom sum to them. So, if by the end of aSoS they had learned of a rumor that Arya was found and was to be wed to Ramsay then the answers of their captives would negate the plausibility of the Boltons capturing Arya at the Twins. And then there are the events at the Crossroads. Arya and Sandor fought and slew several of the Mountain's men in there. There were witnesses to this, who survived long enough to tell the tale to Shagwell. They probably told the tale to anyone they came across asap, just to make sure the Mountain himself wouldn't blame them for the killings. BwB has an intricate network of informers. They would have learned of this fight of the Hound with a fierce boy by his side who stabbed a soldier to death. Especially Gendry would realize that was Arya, and the BwB too know that Arya's hair was cut short and she wore clothes that help her pass for a boy. All of them know that the Hound and a kid = Sandor + Arya. The Crossroads = the Orphanage. The blood stains are still there on the floor as leftover evidence of Arya having been there. It cannot be washed out. The crux is that the fight at the Crossroads happened AFTER the Lannisters and Boltons claimed to have found Arya. The last known whereabouts of the Hound was Saltpans. Well, Sandor never reached Saltpans as far as we know, but his helmet appeared there during the raid on Saltpans. This is the extra personal motivation for them to hunt those butchers down. BwB and Gendry and LS probably fear that Arya died at Saltpans at the hands of the raiders, may have been raped and cut, but they would equally hope she may have escaped, and thus wanders the Riverlands. And then the orphanage is the most logical way to help find her. Anyone going to and fro and through the Riverlands at one time passes the Crossroads. And it has become renowned enough as an orphanage that septons and brothers of the faith drop off children at the Crossroads. The hope is that a similar man might find Arya, give her food and guidance, and would take her to the Crossroads, and then Gendry is there to identify her.
  4. It's possible Steelsong won't make it beyond an Ironborn attack... Sam, Gilly and Dalla's boy were sent to the farthest city away from the NW and Red priestess who likes her bonfire, and yet it may be all for naught. If so, what would it have as impact for Sam? Will he wait around for years to forge all his links? And he alsready served a crucial purpose for Jon. As LC he separated a child from its mother, and a child from its father, for good, and fully intent on preserving that lie. Ned Stark also lied to protect Jon. When, Jon learns his true parentage, he can hardly be angry with Ned over it, for he is doing something similar, even if not analogues.
  5. He makes the jokes of a wittiful jester
  6. What happens if he tosses Penny away or offers her to someone else for his own advantage. Tyrion has had many moments of potential stabilisation, but he never does... In fact, that is exacdtly what the Crowley fool symbolizes: potential for demonic evil and sainthood but switching between both. The fool stands for potential and potency, but to achieve it one need to be the "world dancer" at the other end of the major arcana.
  7. Yes, yes, very nice and accurate points! While Tyrion leans heavily on the Crowley fool, Loras and Tyrells lean heavily to the Waite fool, and Florian archetype. Also singers and fools/jesters switch within teams. If a singer is killed or leaves, then he's replaced with a fool or a fool is introduced to us instead, and vice versa. As Arya kills the deserter Dareon in Braavos, Patchface arrives at Castle Black. Sansa gets Dontos on her team, claiming to be her Florian. She annointed him fool to save his life, when he was stark naked and stupidly drunk at a tourney. He's killed with arrows (the bear way) and in the next chapter she's assaulted by Marillion. It's unclear whether Marillion is truly dead and if so who replaced him as the fool. Mord is featured several chapters later, but he stays at the Eyrie last. Sweetrobin might be regarded a fool. Possibly the vagueness about a replacement for the singer gone missing, gives credence to the argument that Marillion still lives and sings. Lots of switches at KL for the king: a singer is killed for a bawdy song about Robert, Moonboy is presented. Butterbumps is a jester AND a singer. So, he's not likely to be soon replaced. Tyrion was Shae's "fool" and jealously guarding his position with her. When he discovered Symon Silver Tongue in Shae's mansion and getting her attention, and Symon blackmailed Tyrion to put him on the singer list of the Purple Wedding, he had him become a bowl of brown. Though Tyrion has been removed from team Aegon, there hasn't been a singer replacement yet it seems. This might be, because Tyrion still hoped to rejoin them after being kidnapped, and still hopes Aegon will make a stink in Westeros and help take down Cersei.
  8. Except Tyrion never takes that leap voluntarily. He's forced onto another path. There's no more explicit scene proving this to us than when he's in the sky cells: a captive put in a cell in the skies with a floor that's skewed so you might roll out. But he refuses to take that leap. Tyrion is not the Waite's fool, not a Florian, though he wants to be some pretty maiden's Florian. Believing himself master of his own path and destiny he flips a coin in the air in the Crossroads, hoping to tempt someone to give up his room. He ends up being taken captive, and his captor even lies about the road she's going to take. He thus ends in the cells. He buys his freedom with a toss of a bag of coins. That's the last they see of him at the Eyrie, and he finds his way back to the Crossroads, once again believing himself lead and master of his own fate and destiny. Money is shown and talked about: dad says he's to fight at the Green Fork. And then Tyrion spills wine to make a point about the fools in King's Landing lopping Ned's head off, and dad makes him temporary hand of the king. Even if his father takes up that gauntlet, Tyrion still gets to be "master of coin". Purple wine gets spilled at a wedding, and he lands himself in jail, accused of a crime he's innocent of. Once more with a coin under a tile (not his coin this time, but planted by Varys) he's put on a boat across the Narrow Sea to Penthos, where he's liberated from the wine crate in Illyrio's wine cellar. He puked wine on the way over all over himself. Illyrio puts him on the Shy Maid. For once Tyrion has no wine, no money and no sex. He's called Hugor Hill, and he actually is less inhibited about "his fool" part. He manages to put himself in perspective, laugh at himself, and even when he makes fun of others he's less angry minded. But then on the day he has money in his pocket, he goes to a slaving whorehouse, rapes a whore, pukes wine all over the carpet and tosses a bunch of coins in the air. He's kidnapped by Jorah before he can do anything else. And he ends up being sold as a slave with no money, no sex and no wine. Tyrion leaps only once: before Jon. He's been tossed from here to there ever since.
  9. Not so much the esotheric meaning as the depictions are interesting. http://tarotwheel.net/history/the individual trump cards/il matto - the fool.html Initially in history the Fool is depicted as simple minded, a buffoon, half naked, bigger head, ass ears with bells, being laughed at and picked on by others but barely understanding or knowing what's going on. He's a madman, a village fool, mentally impaired. Several character fools can be classified with those. But then you have the court jester, which is the opposite of the above. Court jesters are not mad or simple, they are very witty and smart, making fun of others and particularly chosen to do exactly that for their lord: make fun of their guests. These can also be wandering musicians. Several character fools can be classified in this section. Then by the 19th century we get the Rider Waite fool: handsome young man with floral tunique and holding a flower delicately about to step off a cliff in the mountains, because he has his eyes on the sky. He's handsome, romantic, wandering innocent, but able minded. There's your Florian archetype. Waite's archenemy Crowley designs a completely different fool: a sort of physical grotesque, mix child mix adult, but not like the older ones. He's a giant who takes the space of corner of the cards. He has horns like a demon, but also wears a crystal prism from which a rainbow halo sprouts (euhm The Faith of Seven? Hugor Hill?). His ego (sun) is on crotch height. He wields "wild fire" in one hand, a downturned/ upside down cup pouring liquid in the other. And then his vices are wine (grapes) and money (bag of coins). A couple of naked innocent children is depicted on it: they lie in each others arms. And it's either a lioness or tigre (animal instinct) cluthcing his leg, and a rose growing in the mind of a crocodile swiming in the waters of creation. Only one character was written to match this fool: Tyrion. Whenever he throws or flips a coin in the air, or wine is spilled (or both) Tyrion's fate and path is altered greatly. BTW Crowley's friend was Lovecraft who wrote a story where Waite was the name of an evil wizard.
  10. sweetsunray

    Cutting tongues.

    Egg is not the sole person with a shaved or bald head. Last summer I published an essay that delves into such comparisons, and not just Targaryen ones. The biggest link for Varys points to Qarth or the people Qartheen originate from. He sounds and speaks like a sorrowful man when he kills Kevan. He laments children like the Qartheen captain who saw Astapor. Xaro can be seen as who Varys would have been if he hadn’t been cut. There’s a lost city in the red waste that was nicknamed “city of spiders” of the Qaathi (ancestors of qarth)... like vaes tolorro. https://sweeticeandfiresunray.com/2017/11/03/the-spiders-origin-part-i/
  11. When you delve into fool symbolism I also recommend checking out the fool in tarot decks: especially the classic older ones, then rider waite’s fool and finally the fool of Crowley
  12. sweetsunray

    Is Drogon the most iconic dragon of all time?

    Classic 1. Fafnir of Volsung saga/Nibelungenlied 2. St Maarten’s dragon 3. St. George’s Of popular modern culture 4. Elliot 5. Smaug 6. Balerion 7. Falcor 8. Viserion 9. Drogon 10. Malifecent
  13. sweetsunray

    What is the thing that comes in the night?

    I mean Baelor of course... pfff, been s while since I discussed stuff and background names are the first I might mix up.
  14. sweetsunray

    What is the thing that comes in the night?

    No, it supports the proposal that Benjen might be a wight. But Coldhands is already excluded from being Benjen, because Bran would have recognised him. As for “your monster”... this is open for interpretation. It could be said to mean the same thing as when someone says “i’m your servant”. It could mean “i’m the monster you created”. And it could mean “i’m someone you need to fear.”
  15. sweetsunray

    What is the thing that comes in the night?

    1) that’s why we hear over and over in aFfC how even silent sisters were raped in the RL and bones of the dead have been defiled. And this Holy Sparrow spreading the message has a cart full of “holy bones” that are first littered beneath Balon’s statue (from where Arya once witnessed the execution of her father), until Cersei herself is lured out to complain of it, and asks the High Sparrow to remove them from the square. The irony of Ned’s bones possibly ending back where they came from to taunt Cersei and lead her to make an alliance with a man who may be her undoing should not be lost to us. 2) I do acknowledge the argument that Benjen is not amongst the dead people Jon dreams of. However, Jon does dream of people who are not dead as well. He has a dream of Bran telling him it’s safe underground in aCoK, while Bran and Rickin hide in the crypts from Theon. Jon dreams of Ned as the face in the tree at WF, and thus as a spirit in a tree, like Arya actually hears Ned’s voice at the weirwood tree in Harrenhal. 3) even if Benjen is alive alive, or some type of wight, he still isn’t Coldhands. Coldhands is Coldhands.
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