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sweetsunray

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About sweetsunray

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    House Rave, For the Critical Watch

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  1. sweetsunray

    On Janos Slynt

    Someone mentioned a parallel between Ned's beheading and Slynt's. There is indeed a parallel to it, but it's a reverse parallel. Ned didn't make a stink after having time to "think" in a black cell, and did as the crown required, and Slynt rejoiced in the fact that Ned didn't get the mercy he was promised. And he goes down without protest, begging, insulting, and instead with dignity. Slynt refuses every of Jon's opportunity handed to him, abuses and insults Jon, until his head is on the block and then he begs for another chance. This should be another no-brainer to show that Slynt is a nasty, non-trustworthy man who enjoys killing people willy nilly, but thinks himself above the consequences of his own actions.
  2. Or imo because Viserys' attitude wore off. If you were a noble or high magister of a city-state for example, would you suffer Viserys for long, especially if you have sons and daughters? Imo, they never had to live "on the streets", but tended to live as guests with rich families, who initially didn't mind having them to boost their own social status within their own society... eventually wearing out their welcome, because of Viserys' personality. The money issue would have foremostly have been when Viserys had to seek passage to journey to a new destination (especially when his paranoia would prompt him to suspect assassins were after them). Captains of ships, river barges or convoys wouldn't have come cheap.
  3. sweetsunray

    Sansa's betrayal consequences partly overestimated?

    Behavior and actions that fit the signs of fear. We as readers know what's happening in Sansa's head. We know she feels fear. But Sandor does not know what she thinks or feels. Sansa verbally expresses "you're scaring me", but all of her other behavior can be misinterpreted by Sandor as having confidence. Even her "let me go" can be interpreted as belieing her attestation that she's scared. She says it as a command. I'm not saying that Sansa isn't terrified in that moment, or that she's giving "mixed signals" to us, or is even responsible if she were. I'm saying that Sandor does see opposing and mixed signals. It doesn't make his assessment correct, but his responses and replies suggest to me that he believes her to be confident when confronted by him. In short, to him, she "shows no fear of him".
  4. sweetsunray

    Slayer of Lies triad; another look

    I find it odd that the third lie would pertain about a character already referenced in the first two. Now I agree with your assessment of the first two, but not your speculation that Mel will also create a false dragon. It's too literal an interpretation in comparison to the first two imo. Moreover, Aemon warns us about trusting in the translation of the prophecy, while Mel's chapter warns us about interpreting a sequence of visions. Whomever wrote the prophecy in the scrolls at Asshai, they didn't get the whole tale. They got a few glimpses, quite likely metaphorical glimpses similar to what Mel sees, and they know those visions are related but not exactly how. So, we should question the prophecy itself as much as we squint our eyes at Mel's claim that Eastwatch will meet with disaster soon. Mel makes mistakes. So would the seer who was the original source of the Azor Ahai reborn prophecy, and most certainly so would have the transcribes across the aeons copying the prophecy. Maybe one got a coffee stain on his copy while transcribing, the text got smudged, and then inserted what he "thought" was written where the smudge was. I agree that the three "lies" pertain about claims of who is PtwP: Stannis is not tPtwP/Azor Ahai reborn, Aegon (fake or true) is not tPtwP/Azor Ahai reborn. It requires a third character being proclaimed tPtwP when they're not. I personally interprete the "slayer of lies" triad to be about "lies" not "liars", or in other words that what is used as an identifier of tPtwP are the lies. With Stannis, the sword is the lie, because it's a fake sword. With (f)Aegon it is the bleeding star that Rhaegar believed marked Aegon as tPtwP, along with being born at "Dragonstone" (a stone beast with wings). In other words "the bleeding star" is mistaken to be a comet. So, the third vision represents a part of the prophecy/legend that is commonly used by people to try and identify tPtwP, but is not the correct identifier. So, we have to inspect the prophecy itself to match what is commonly used in-world as an identifier to the third vision of the triad of "lies". The words of the prophecy that match with the vision are "waking dragons from stone". Dany sees a stone beast with wings flying up from a stone tower, breathing black smoke. Mel interpretes the words "dragons from stone" as "waking a stone dragon". Aemon and Benerro (and most readers) interprete "dragons from stone" as Dany's feat with the petrified dragon eggs. Mel fails at accomplishing the first (of course), while Dany obviously succeeded in waking dragons from petrified eggs beneath a bleeding start. On top of that she was born at Dragonstone. All she seems to lack to fit the verbal prophecy is the sword of light. Given that Drogon breathes black and red fire, his flame doesn't seem to make much light. Anyhow, you could speculate that somehow Dany will end up with a sword of light in tWoW or aDoS. But we should not forget that the HotU visions declare both the red comet and "waking dragons from stone" as false identifiers. Despite several people in-world starting to claim "the dragons prove Dany's tPtwP", the third vision implies "the dragons prove who's not tPtwP". Hence, Dany is not tPtwP. I like your tie to Samwell as "slayer". Him testing Stannis's sword revealed it's a fake "sword of light". I'm not sure you can take Sam as slaying the lie of Aegon by repeating Aemon's conviction it must be Dany. He might still need to do that in another way. And finally of course, there are still 2 books in which Sam may end up getting convinced that Dany is not tPtwP.
  5. sweetsunray

    Sansa's betrayal consequences partly overestimated?

    Sansa's feelings and actions in that moment are disguised and interpreted as something else by Sandor. Her asking him questions, having a conversation, arguing with him, demanding to be let go, even if she says "he's scaring her", those actions are signs of someone who's not afraid of him to speak up. He mentions a song title, but she doesn't give him that song. She sings a different song. That Sandor is misinterpreting he body language is made clear when she surrenders and closes her eyes. He takes it as abhorrence. Which she then disproves by in the end not just looking at his face but cupping his face. You are correct that she never actively said "I'm not going with you", but both will end up remembering that way. We know Sansa remembers it that way. You have a point that Sandor never asks her. He wants to, but he doesn't. He's scared of her rejecting him, so he asks it without asking: telling her he's going and that he could keep her safe. He's not asking her the correct way, but in his mind that's what he's doing: asking. And by asking her without ever actually framing it as a question, he avoids the verbal "no". The absence of "take me with you!" from Sansa is "the rejection". We can see how his mind bends to being rejected, because when she closes her eyes, he reads that as her still not bearing to look at him. He leaves her, because he's totally convinced she chooses not to go with him. Initially he ends up drinking his sorrows away (because the BwB came upon him that way), then he discovers Arya. And while self-proclaimed goal is to use Arya as a bargaining chip to seek a position in Robb's army, it ends up being surviving and saving a Stark daughter not to prove himself to Robb, but to himself and ultimately Sansa. Since he fails at surviving himself, to his mind Sansa was correct in "rejecting" his offer. He couldn't have kept her safe as he claimed, and if she was right not to jump at the chance to flee with him, and he had wanted to spare her a marriage to the Imp, we get his conclusion that he should have fucked her bloody and rip her heart out. You are correct that Sansa never realized that he was asking her to flee with him at the time, because he never popped the question. But I don't think you are correct that Sansa would have said, "Yes," had he asked. Yes, she wishes for someone like Sandor to rescue her, rather than Ser Dontos, but the moment it comes down to practically discussing "how will you escape?", she puts a lot of question marks behind it. By then she also concluded that it's a ship she requires. A flight overland is just completely out of the question for her. And ultimately she does not trust Sandor to be able to pull it off, with or without her, at the time. Whether or not she puts that opinion into conscious thought is less relevant, than her automatic response of questioning his plans. Sansa's changes of the narrative reflect not just her feelings towards Sandor, but also her beliefs of both their abilities. Ultimately, when "push comes to shove" (literally), she questions his ability to flee KL and survive an overland journey. As time goes by, she comprehends the synopsis of the event - he was offering to rescue her, and when he mentioned it, she didn't grasp for the opportunity, so just like Sandor she summarizes it as her rejecting him, and her regretting it. This change of the narrative and reflection upon it reveals that she came to understand Sandor's purpose in her room that night, that despite his absence she has grown to believe he could have pulled it off (after all, he did manage to flee KL successfully), as well as believes she was wrong to not jump at the chance. Much much later, she alters the narrative again - he abandoned her. So, because she altered her feelings to "I wished I had gone with him", she has come to believe that "she would have gone with him IF he only had asked." And both these changes of narrative reflect an understanding of what was really happening: he offered to rescue her, without actually asking her, and therefore never truly given her the chance to say yes. Those alteration to the narrative therefore also include a process within Sansa on how she expects to be treated, asked, offered,
  6. sweetsunray

    On Janos Slynt

    He killed him for insubordination, for what he did already.
  7. sweetsunray

    Why Was Robb Such An Awful Diplomat?

    Went back and this is the quote to his mother He indeed does not say he hadn't fallen in love with her, but the "it was the only honorable thing to do," and his "she's gentle and sweet," never much sounds like a man in love. I do think he grows to love Jeyne, but the way he speaks of her, even when defending her, it doesn't sound like a man in love. So, you might be right that if Planetos allows for such a potion to work some type of love spell (and I'm not sure it does), then it has to be taken into account.
  8. sweetsunray

    Why Was Robb Such An Awful Diplomat?

    I had always understood it as Robb being under the influence of the love potion when he ended up sleeping with her, which is not the same thing as deciding to marry a wman you claim to not have been in love with, despite under the influence of a love potion.
  9. sweetsunray

    (Spoilers Fire&Blood) Can Velaryons ride dragons?

    But Quentyn's Targ ancestral blood comes from a Targ several generations back, and none before that. The Velyarions were not a dragonriding family in Valyria. But ever since the Targs settled on Dragonstone, the Velaryons were the sole ones they seemed to intermarry with regularly if there was no alternative. So, since the doom, the Velaryons have been adding Targ ancestry several times into their blood, which is far more than Quentyn's drop. If we go by Brown Ben Plumm two drops several generations ago can work though.
  10. sweetsunray

    Why Was Robb Such An Awful Diplomat?

    Of course he doesn't mention that to his mother, if that were the case. "Yeah, mom, I felt honor bound to wed this girl I wasn't in love with, and also because I don't want to end up in a situation like dad, and my wife being nasty to my Snow bastard." Now that would not be tactful, would it? It's SPECULATION... but it's not pointless speculation, even if we will never have an answer to it. Asking questions is important, even if you can't always "answer" the question. If you don't care for the question, then just ignore my post and move on. But who gave you the right to decide what ponderings and speculations are worthwhile my time and whomever else who wonders about Robb's motivations.
  11. sweetsunray

    Sansa's betrayal consequences partly overestimated?

    I know it's not your point. My point is that yours is irrelevant. Sansa's idea of Sandor isn't completely isolated. She interacted with him before she created the Unkiss and she sent him kindly packing. There's no risk of abuse when he can come to the conclusion that she was correct in sending him packing and works on himself to earn her trust, to make himself someone reliable, and to leave the alcohol abuse. I don't expect Sansa will rely on him, until he has proven he can be reliable. And there's no risk of abuse from Sandor towards Sansa anyway, and Sansa doesn't ignore it when he says ugly things. She stands up for herself towards him.
  12. sweetsunray

    Why Was Robb Such An Awful Diplomat?

    Because we don't have Robb's POV. It's speculative, for sure. But we do know however that Robb didn't like Catelyn's treatment of Jon either. And if Robb feels he's honor bound to wed Jeyne Westerling because he took her virginity and slept with her, then you can argue "Robb could have asked her to take moon tea" all you want, but that sounds really out of character then. If he felt so honor-bound to a girl he wasn't in love with, then it's far more realistic to speculate that avoiding a Snow situation with a Frey wife was part of his "honor-bound" motivation, than it is to speculate "pfff, he could have just told her to use moon tea".
  13. sweetsunray

    Why Was Robb Such An Awful Diplomat?

    Jon's "mother" didn't use moon tea. Though either Jon's mother was a wench of the smallfolk as far as Robb knows, or he may have heard about Ashara Dayne and her suicide too (even if Catelyn never heard it mention anymore within her earshot). Robb may not have been in love with Jeyne Westerling, but it seems she fell for him, and she isn't a whore, but a noblewoman (albeit upjumped). Bastards born to noblewomen is somewhat different than those born to a whore. The latter get no name. The first are usually acknowledged, and if he brought him home to Winterfell, would be a Snow. I don't think Robb particularly was afraid of fathering a bastard while he was at Winterfell and sleeping with prostitutes or washer women. But once he was "promised to one noblewoman" before setting out to war, and then ended up sleeping with another noblewoman, that's when he's much in the same situation as Ned Stark was in his mind, with just one big difference. Ned had already married Catelyn, before "fathering" a bastard son while on campaign. Robb hadn't yet married the Frey daughter. I think it not unlikely he did not also wanted to get himself in a similar situation as his father, being blamed by a Frey wife who would certainly be suspicious of hsi Snow bastard as the Snow would be born well before her children. Anyway, I don't think it's that much of a coincidence that George wrote a scenario that is much alike the one Robb, Cat and Jon believe to have occurred during RR for Ned to bring back Jon Snow, except Robb was only promised and therefore in his mind believed he could make a better choice than his father was at liberty to make. That said, it is a huge monumental mistake of Robb, especially given the fact that Jeyne's mother was indeed making sure that Jeyne wouldn't have any child by Robb, no matter how much they tried.
  14. sweetsunray

    Why Was Robb Such An Awful Diplomat?

    Lately I've been wondering whether Robb's motivation for marrying Jeyne Westerling has anything to do with how he witnessed Jon being treated by Catelyn. We know he wasn't in love with Jeyne Westerling at the time. He gave in to seeking comfort, realizing the morning after what he had done and what the potential consequence would be: in his mind Jeyne could end up carrying his child, and then he'd have to raise that child as a bastard with a Frey wife being suspicious of him. It's something he never explains to Catelyn, but that's hardly a reason he could have told his mother.
  15. sweetsunray

    Sansa's betrayal consequences partly overestimated?

    And you don't think Sansa showing no fear of him, singing a song of the Mother and then tell him she thinks it's safer to remain in the red keep surrounded by enemies than fleeing with him through the Riverlands didn't send that message? I'm pretty sure it did by the time he essentially failed with the tough as nails sister Arya, who doesn't mind getting dirty, sleeping outside and aids him with the Mountain's men, and he still gets mortally wounded if it weren't for the Elder Brother. Not to forget he also got caught by the BwB. If he didn't realize that Sansa was indeed right that she wouldn't have been safe with him during such a trip with the man he was at the time, I'm confident he came to realize it during his meditations as the gravedigger.
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