Sandy Clegg

I think we're getting to the point now. One-eye is still in play, therefore whatever hate remains of Orell still resides within this wolf, which is part of Summer's pack now. Bran's ability to resist or control such lingering emotions may be one of the tests he has to endure.

What is dead may die, I agree. The ironborn would see things differently, perhaps. These books seem to have a bit of a thing about life after death. Almost like a central theme, you might say?

Just came across @Lady Dacey's interesting thread about parallels in Arya's chapters from AGOT / AFFC-ADWD. Worth a read for the quality of the replies as much as the OP.

I almost wish he hadn't revealed anything about Bran. At leats the Hodor plot point (I won't say it here) gives us some insight into how George's mind works with regard to wordplay, etc.

Well that's the point. We aren't given much info on how these emotions fade with generations. I do think it might be more of a foreshadowing idea than an 'Orell's revenge' arc, though. Skinchanging magic surely follows one of George's favourite metaphors: a sword without a hilt - effects may go both ways, but to what extent?

Fair point. Maybe a separate thread for each 'main lineage' would help focus people's efforts? It's quite a daunting task.

It's so weird that he gave this away to the show runners. It didn't add to the story as it was shoved in at the last second, yet it also kind of spoils the series a little for readers, so seems like a lose-lose situation. I agree there is probably a huge wrinkle that George is leaving out of that, though. King of 'what' indeed ...

@Hippocras @Lissasalayaya I think it's a shame this convo has gotten a bit sour, because it seems as though you both have a lot of common ground from which to work on. Personally I would shy away from either extreme. Symbolism is important to George. The characters are important to George. There's no need for an either/or situation here. The fact that he doesn't talk about the symbolism, but rather plot and characters, may indeed be along the lines of what Lissalayaya says - George doesn't want to tip his hand and deny us the pleasure of working things out for ourselves. As to having foreknowledge of the ending, @Lissasalayaya ? Well, we've all been there at some point or another. I've had the ending figured out three or four times only to realise a few months later that I was probably completely wrong.

This fits with the motif, yeah. The dragon has three heads, three forks of the trident. The Trident river's blue fork is much shorter than the red and green forks, but is hardly 'broken off' ... but might be relevant I guess? The blue fork ends (or begins) at Oldstones - a decrepit place with a sepulchre, formerly seat of House Mudd. So the imagery is all there of something 'long absent'. Too many sets of three in the books to go over them all really. Sigh.

This made me look at Mors Umber, who wears a bear's skin (complete with head) and has a white eye patch with an obsidian eye beneath. Could GRRM be using him as a way of linking Varamyr (who often went inside a bear's skin) and Euron (another arcane character who dreams of falling/flying and wears an eye patch).

This should really get its own thread. The idea of 'reasonable predictions and assumptions' of new readers is an interesting one, because the books don't really come with a difficulty setting. However, George is writing in the fantasy genre, traditionally not the realm of Agatha Christie-type mysteries and complex whodunnits, etc. So the average reader is much less prepared for the need to bring those analytical tools which are required for mystery fiction. Which ASOIAF, in part, most decidedly is. It's really hard for me to cast my mind back to my thought processes on reading the first book because there were four other books waiting for me and I just wanted to plough on and get through them all. Did I imagine that Jon's mother might be Lyanna? I genuinely can't recall. That wasn't where my mind was at. But was I shocked at Lysa's reveals at the end of ASOS? You bet. Didn't see that coming at all. I think you either need a re-read, or some foreknowledge (from a friend perhaps) of the idea that 'hey, you gotta pay attention to the clues in these books' to really be able to predict much. But like Gared says in the prologue: 'We should start back'. George factors in the re-readability of these books when constructing mysteries.

Exactly, he allows us to draw the connection between Jon and King using R+L=J, but he's then able to have fun with that (Corn King, also Night's king?). A good example of a wrinkle.

Yeah I scratch my head over this a lot. He's definitely got the end of the series half-formed in his head - he's said that he knows all the major 'set-pieces' for example, so he is working to a plan for sure, he just delights in creating side characters I think. The new characters all bring in different ways to foreshadow the main story, probably - to me it seems as though he is invested in this style of storytelling over 'getting to the end' because the journey to him is more interesting the destination, especially when he knows what that end is. I mean, it'll be worth it I'm sure, if he can get it all written.

I may be wrong, but isn't George's gardening style a little more varied than this? Some seeds get watered and bloom in the editing process all in one book, some blossom one book later and others are long-term seeds which he may return to in book seven. He does say that he goes back and 'weeds out' a lot of stuff in a given book before that book goes to the publisher (i.e. seeds that seemed interesting at the time of writing, but which turn out to be dead ends or he can't work out how to use them, etc). So the gardening process is sometimes over with by the time we get a book. But others seeds may be part of further reveals, which seems to be the common belief. Essentially, aren't there short-term, medium-term and long-term yields, just like with actual gardens? I think we could use a separate thread on this as even I'm confused on it at times.

The only thing I can think of is the Habsburg Jaw, a product of inbreeding: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/distinctive-habsburg-jaw-was-likely-result-royal-familys-inbreeding-180973688/