Sandy Clegg

I posted this elsewhere, but the character Shae may have been inspired by one of France's most infamous poisoners, Catherine Deshayes: http://murderpedia.org/female.D/d/deshayes-catherine.htm Catherine Deshayes, sometimes known as Catherine Monvoisin, or simply La Voisin was a French serial killer. She was born around 1640, and executed as a witch on 16 February 1680, in Paris; together with several others. She played an important role in the so-called Affair of the Poisons. She lived from charging high fees to make horosocopes. She celebrated black masses, practiced abortions, sold love potions and poisons. She is said to have sacrificed infants. Pronouned with the silent 'S' in French, so clear similarity there. It's also been speculated that Shae may have had a hand in one or two of the poison plots going on in Storm of Swords. There's admittedly a lot of Melisandre in her as well, though. I really love the idea that GRRM has been seeking inspiration from women in history who were instigators and masters of their own fate - even if Deshayes was on the shadier end of the scale. It makes the books that much more grounded in reality.

no. 6: GRRM will finish the series

Funnily enough, there was an infamous poisoner in French history called Catherine Deshayes - pronounced de-shae. She was actually involved in a plot to kill the king and was eventually burned as a sorceress for her crimes. https://h2g2.com/edited_entry/A4197585 GRRM is known for his love of history - could he be tipping a wink as to Shae's role in poisoning Joff? It also lends credence to the theory that she was sent by Varys (or Oberyn, or Ellaria, or Littlefinger for all we know) to poison Tywin.

Choose a character from ASOIAF / Dunk & Egg, etc. Write a Limerick featuring that character. The ruder the better, but that's just me. Retreat to the pub, have a pint and wait for all this to blow over.

OK, not related to this topic specifically but ... I was just looking at this and all the other thousand thread titles and thought to myself: Sheesh, no wonder it's taking GRRM a decade to write this book - he himself has to think about all this stuff. It must drive him absolutely bonkers!

This thread really caught my imagination! Hoar and hoarfrost seem such archaic terms (I'd never heard them before) so the fact GRRM uses them in the books does seem worth looking into. (Well, he may have just been using his thesaurus for the word 'ice', seeing as it features so much in his story, too). I like the symbolism and word-play, though, so I did some quick searches going on the assumption that there could be connections here. Three figures seem closely related to whores. 1. Jon's mother is accused of being a whore: ... which brings us to Lyanna again. Elsewhere on the forum it has been speculated that the female line of the Starks (Eddard's mother) might be of wildling stock. Was there once interbreeding with the icy Others? If nothing else, it re-inforces the Ice + Fire motif. 2. Tyrion's whoring is renowned, obviously. He married a whore once. He falls in love with a whore. Then he weds Sansa: could this be foreshadowing for her becoming an ice-queen figure? 3. Littlefinger. He owns whores. In fact, he is the de facto lord of all whores in Kings Landing. He mentions them here in one of his first conversations with Eddard: For some reason this imagery just reminds me of the way zombies lurch around. Maybe just me though... Bonus: There are also the Three Whores - 3 huge trebuchet which are used in the Battle of Blackwater: Foreshadowing for Stannis' battles in the North? A battle with the Others? Problem is, once I accept the deliberate hoar-whore connection, there's a whole bunch of delicious possibilities that open up. How devious do we give GRRM credit for being, I guess is my question.