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About Wizz-The-Smith

  • Rank
    Re-forging Valyrian Steel using half forgotten spells
  • Birthday 12/28/1978

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    The Hollow Hills
  • Interests
    Asoiaf - British History - Sport

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  1. Wizz-The-Smith

    Poll: Is Daario actually Euron?

  2. Wizz-The-Smith

    Wow, I never noticed that v.17

    Ned mimicking the Kings of Winter in the crypts..... Further evidence foreshadowing Ned's death.
  3. Wizz-The-Smith

    The Others emerging from the weirwoods

    No problem, glad you enjoyed the read. So yeah, it is just a turn of phrase but relating to the language choice we find in the books. 'xxxxx' emerges from trees etc. Basically the Others coming from the weirnet. Cheers @Sea Dragon
  4. Wizz-The-Smith

    The Others emerging from the weirwoods

    As promised, here's a brief synopsis of the 'Others emerge from the trees' idea, together with some key illustrative quotes. Before I start, it must be said that these ideas rely on the symbolism to be found within the text, which can of course lead to varying opinions on what each different passage means. It is a large topic, but I will try to make it as easy to follow as possible. Firstly, there are many instances of GRRM figuratively comparing trees to warriors, which must be for some greater narrative purpose besides mere poetic personification. Consider..... Given the speculation surrounding whether the CotF may have created the Others for some martial purpose, the following quote is suggestive of the Others/warriors coming from the trees...……. We know the CotF fought the First Men, but unless the trees actually uprooted and fought these battles (like Tolkien's Ents), who are these 'warriors that come from the trees'? Because the only other people/beings we know of that were involved in this fight were the Others, it would make sense these tree warriors/Others were made by the Children [or their greenseers] to fight their cause. But are there any 'Other-tree' clues to back this up? Well we can start with the AGOT, Prologue..... The shadow [or the Other] emerged from the wood. Symbolically, this would support the idea that they originally came from the trees, in addition to being described as looking like the 'deep grey-green of the trees'. The takeaway being that these icy warriors who look like trees came from the wood, or the weirwood net. Trees turned to warriors. So are there more Other-tree-warrior quotes.... The Others are 'faceless & silent' plus 'all but invisible in the wood'. What would be perfect right now is a quote that has a Faceless Man mirroring these actions & acting as a symbolic Other. Well...... Once Arya had prayed to the weirwood tree, Jaqen emerges and mirrors the actions of the Others from the Prologue. He is a 'faceless' man standing there 'patiently watching,' so 'silent' that the sound of his voice startles Arya. It's as if he was 'invisible in the woods'. This is another example of a faceless warrior emerging from the trees, who has echoes of the Others' description from AGOT. To add to this symbolism, Jaqen has the typical weirwood colours of red & white. Here is a further example of the same pattern from a Cat chapter...…. Jaime and his men are warriors emerging from the trees in this passage [framed between the branches - obscured by trees]. They are also described as Other like. The moonlight has turned Jaime's hair & armour silver, which is consistent with the imagery and colour scheme given to the Others. And he is blending into the trees [he was there & he was gone again, his silvery armor obscured by the trees] just as the Others blend into the trees/their surroundings in the AGOT Prologue (in that same Whispering Wood passage from the Cat chapter mentioned above, soldiers are described as 'melting into the green'). Finally, Jaime's men [army of Other warriors] are literally described as Others, which tellingly is capitalized, which I'm sure is no coincidence. Here is another passage of text that hints at the Lannister army emerging from the trees being like the Others.... The Lannister men are described as 'nameless strangers who all look alike'. Again, this calls back to the AGOT Prologue, in which the Others are compared to twins...... If you are wondering why I've bolded the 'nameless' description [aren't the nameless gods exclusively referencing the CotF?] then I shall explain. There are examples where a character prays to the weirwood tree/old gods and then the Others appear from the wood/trees, the best examples of which are Will in the Prologue of AGOT and Varamyr in the Prologue of ADWD...….. Straight after Will has whispered his prayer to the nameless gods, the Others appear (i.e. we can conclude that the nameless gods and the Others are equivalent here). It's as if they heard his prayer. We see again, as soon as Varamyr had prayed, the signature cold of the Others appears/is mentioned, followed of course by the Others actually turning up and wighting Thistle. [PS: See above Arya quote, in which Jaqen the assassin similarly appears from the weirwood after her prayer] The prayer-summoning-the-Others idea was first formulated in @ravenous reader's 'Killing Word' essay, which I recommend reading: Talking of language, here's another interesting parallel between the Others and the weirwood trees.... And the trees...... The Others and weirwood trees both speak in a language humans aren't able to comprehend. It is highly likely this language is the True Tongue. The True Tongue is linked to the language of the CotF, the naturalistic speech we find in the rustling of the leaves or the ravens whispering into Coldhands ear. Bran also thinks to himself that the howling of the wolves is a language he had once known and somehow forgotten. CONCLUSION As you can see, GRRM has interwoven several symbolic threads which can be traced throughout the novels. I hope to have given some textual evidence as to where the 'Others emerge from the trees' idea comes from. The Prologue gives us a few clues which can be linked through reading other passages of text symbolically. This is not my theory and I'm sure I have missed some important information, but I trust I've provided some insight into this important topic. Hopefully this post inspires some chat around this subject moving forward.
  5. Wizz-The-Smith

    The Others emerging from the weirwoods

    Hi @Sea Dragon , nice to see some people talking about this theory. It's been a topic of discussion between a group of us on Twitter for a while, focusing on Lml's original theory. I think the (awesome) poster you tried to link is @ravenous reader and you are right to call her in for this chat, she has a good understanding of the idea as a whole. The term 'Others coming from the tree's' shouldn't be taken literally, they haven't just morphed from the actual tree and started walking about. Rather it should be seen as a symbolic explanation for their appearance from the weirnet. Tree warriors, once entrenched in the wwnet only to be released at some point in time from the net/ww trees for a reason still being debated. It tends to be along the line that once the 1st men/humans invaded the net/entered the net it was a reaction in defence of a potential violation etc. There are various passages of text that hint towards a warrior emerging from trees or ww trees specifically. I shall have to return to supply said quotes as I'm not at home right now. Needless to say I like this idea a lot and will try and shed some light on a fully fleshed out version for your reading. Cheers Sea Dragon
  6. Wizz-The-Smith

    How big is an endorsement for a book by GRRM for you?

    I've just acquired the first book in 'The Last Kingdom' book series by Bernard Cornwell off the back of watching the TV series. George is quoted in the synopsis endorsing Cornwell's ability to write great battle scenes, he also mentions this fact in his Not A Blog.
  7. Wizz-The-Smith

    Out of Context Quotes

  8. Wizz-The-Smith

    Out of Context Quotes

  9. Wizz-The-Smith

    Out of Context Quotes

  10. Wizz-The-Smith

    Out of Context Quotes

  11. Wizz-The-Smith

    Out of Context Quotes

    1] Edd describing his dream... 2] Jon making sure Satin shook well after peeing, even if the technique suggested is somewhat extreme....
  12. Wizz-The-Smith

    The Three-Eyed-Crow is Old Nan, not Bloodraven

    "Most of him has gone into the tree," explained the singer Meera called Leaf. "He has lived beyond his mortal span, and yet he lingers. For us, for you, for the realms of men. Only a little strength remains in his flesh. He has a thousand eyes and one, but there is much to watch. One day you will know." [Bran III, ADWD]
  13. Wizz-The-Smith

    The Peaceful People of Na'ath

    Yep, I think the butterfly and it's 'many eyes in one' is a hint at the Naathi magic/greenseer-CotF ancestry, as is the golden eyes. To support this idea the butterfly is also associated with physical transformation or shapeshifting which is essentially skinchanging. In Celtic mythology [one of Grrm's inspirations] the magical otherworld or lands of the gods include caves/hollow hills [BR and Bran] the world beneath the oceans [In line with @ravenous reader's 'Under the sea/see' catch -- green sea/green see] and importantly for this line of inquiry islands. Many of the islands on Planetos have these 'underworld/magic/greenseer' clues, think Leng, Lorath, Old Wyk and Iron Islands in general, Battle Isle, Misty Isle [House Fisher/Fisher King] Skagos, Isle of Toads etc....... All of which have subtle allusions to magic/greenseeing, Naath fits nicely into this idea. Nice!
  14. Wizz-The-Smith

    Soldier Pines and Sentinels

    Hey LM. Yep I agree, over on the Bran's Growing Powers thread we came to the same conclusion after researching all the different examples of personified trees and their actions. If this idea does come to fruition then I'm not sure how Grrm would go about it, I'm not convinced he'll have them uproot and stroll about ala Tolkien [although a possibility] but rather activate the trees as martial forces while playing a key role in the battles to come. For example, forests closing in around certain forces [typical fantasy technique, Haunted Forest etc] or enabling a pathway for one while not the other. Branches grabbing, tugging or catching weapons/clothing to inhibit a strike or passageway. Exposing some while hiding others via subtle changes in the trees positioning, thickness of foliage, dropping snow at an opportune moment. Tripping people with their roots etc etc........ We see this sort of personification in the text anyway but when placed at a critical juncture within the story it could have far more significance, and become more obvious to the reader that the trees are actually having such influence. Here's some examples in the text of what I'm talking about............ This idea of having martial trees is of course reinforced by the 54 mentions of soldier and sentinel trees, an army of watchers ready to take up arms when necessary. We have text that backs this up, the trees are described as armoured warriors, cloaked soldiers and as taking battle formation.... This subtle version of Tolkien's Ents is my interpretation of what may happen, but there are passages of text that would support/foreshadow a more mobile version of events.... The second quote is a tree floating in a river but serves the same purpose of describing an uprooted and personified tree attacking people. As I said previously, I tend to think it will be the more subtle version if this line of thinking happens at all, but hey, this is a fantasy series so anything is possible. There are more examples but it's late here and wanted to post the basic idea, I'll keep my eye on developments and post again. Hopefully this thread unearths more textual support to either of these ideas, and nice thread by the way.
  15. Wizz-The-Smith

    Puns and Wordplay

    Hi @Seams Coins -- scion I recently found this potential word play when looking into an idea by @ravenous reader that the Prince that was promised may actually be a price that was promised. The theory being that Brandon the Builder may have been involved in a 'promise/pact/agreement' to give up a child/heir/scion, only for the prize to be stolen away. Alternatively, some have theorised that the NK/NQ may be the potential candidates. Either way, the basic premise is that a Prince [scion] was to be exchanged in payment [coins] but was stolen away, thus the Others want to now claim their prize. There are various examples of this in the text, the obvious one being Theon sent to ward with the Stark's as payment for Balon's rebellion. The first of three 'Princes' exchanged in payment............... Secondly, a Stark Prince...... [or the heir of the King beyond the Wall, whichever takes ones fancy] The third example is my favourite as it highlights the potential for the scion/coins wordplay...... Three prices Princes used as coin or exchanged as payment. Regarding RR's idea that Brandon the Builder may have made some kind of pact/agreement involving the payment of a child/heir and then reneging on the deal, here are a couple of instances of Noble scions being 'stolen' away or robbed. Firstly, Jaime....... And secondly, Sweetrobin........ Aerys 'robbed' Jaime, and Robin [robbing ] was stolen away. So we have three examples of 'Princes' promised/exchanged in payment [coins/scion] and two of Noble heirs/scions [Princes in all but name] being 'stolen away'. I really like the idea that the Others have come back to claim their prize, and the quoted text may support the notion that a 'promised Prince' may also potentially be a 'promised Price'. Other examples that RR has found include the exchange from one side of the Wall to the other involving Bran and Monster, and Robb who was supposed to marry Walder Frey's daughter as a 'bridge toll'! A special component of being 'promised to someone' often entails marriage..... @ravenous reader has also recently found another example that fits particularly well......... A [bastard] Prince exchanged in payment only to be stolen away by a Stark. If this parallels the Prince [price] that was promised and the Others are indeed seeking their late payment then it's interesting that this example has the Wall coming down. Cheers Seams, nice to see this classic thread back on the front page of the forum.