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About Wizz-The-Smith

  • Birthday 12/28/1978

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  • Re-forging Valyrian Steel using half forgotten spells
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    The Hollow Hills
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    Asoiaf - British History - Sport

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  1. Great stuff as usual @Phylum of Alexandria Quick point. I disagree that Renly and his abundance of Green Man symbolism makes for a poor fertility god. His symbolism (horned lord, green man armor, rising from the dead, etc) suggests death and re-birth, which is Green Man symbolism in a nutshell. Any association with Highgarden links in Reach fertility, Garth the Gardener & Garth the Green. Furthermore, if we're talking weirwood reproduction (birth/ saplings etc) then the Horned Green Man (Renly/Garth. Garlan Tyrell (a Garth character) wore Renly's green armor in the re-birth battle scenario) is not only associated with death & re-birth, but is the only character in the series (through Garth the Green) known to have successfully planted a weirwood that is still thriving today. I'm sure I'm missing some other symbolism as well. Anyhoo, enjoyed the thread, always great to read new ideas regarding weirwood & old gods magic. Good work. It's late and I'm sure I'm missing a tonne of important points and information, so I'm off to bed. I shall revisit for another read another time. Cool thread! Night. WiZZzzzz
  2. Hey Longie!! Great to see you, I hope you're well. Yep, that link is an excellent resource for everything 'Bran's Growing Powers'. @Tijgy did a fabulous job grouping it all together. Hopefully you enjoy re-reading the posts, there's some really cool chat in those threads.
  3. My pleasure I too have been distracted, so much to do and not enough time for the forum. Your ramblings and random musings are indeed enjoyable, I hope to add the odd post here and there. I find the good thing about the re-read threads is that we can plod on at our own pace and still be on the front page of the Re-read Topic Listing. Look forward to any new posts.
  4. Hi @Phylum of Alexandria Really cool thread! Love your ideas and what you're picking up from re-reading the early chapters, it's absolutely right up my street! @LmL, @evita mgfs, @ravenous reader and I (among others) have discussed many of the same themes you've picked up on so far. And I'm really enjoying what you've added to these ideas, great stuff! The windy text in particular is something we had great fun exploring back in the day, before it was popular. Lol! We were accused of looking too far into the text! But @evita mgfs was absolutely spot on with all her observations in the 'Bran's Growing Powers' thread, and that thread was great fun. I see the same brilliant intuition and creative ideas in your posts, particularly this thread. Keep up the good work! My friend @Tijgy (who was also a fabulous contributor to said thread) compiled a great OP in the V.2 version with links to all the posts for convenience of reading. I'll leave a link here for you (or anyone else interested) to peruse at your pleasure if you so wish. Anyhoo, loved reading your stuff thus far, looking forward to reading more, and hope to shoot the breeze at some point. Said link as promised. Keep posting, it's really good.
  5. That pie has to be made with choux pastry.
  6. Hi Evolett. So when Brothers of the NW recite the vows to a Heart Tree it may enable some sort of magic pact/oath. Leading to something akin to Coldhands. Therefore, your catch seems important. After Jon & Sam recite the vows in front of the Heart Trees Ghost appears with a...... Cold hand. Regards who Coldhands is, I think he was an original member of the Night's Watch dating back thousands of years to the Long Night. I think this sort if ritual/magic/pact/oath would have been used to create a special kind of Wight capable of fighting the Others. One that still had their senses in tact, like Coldhands & Beric. Death and rebirth. For the normal man death may mean their soul disintegrated over time ala Beric. But for one lucky enough to be a warg, their soul may have been protected by jumping into their familiar before being resurrected, protecting them from the eventual rot/disintegration of death enabling a ridiculously long life without the disintegration experienced by Beric. Ala Coldhands. (Also think the legends of the Age of Heroes who live for hundreds of years, I think they were privy to this knowledge/magic as well. But I digress) @Mr_E_Knight I like this idea. If you're aware of LML then I'm sure you're aware of his awesome Green Zombies essay series. This is obviously right up that street and a nice layer I'd not considered. It always felt weird that ALL the original NW would have to be skinchangers/wargs to turn into Green Zombie Brothers. But this idea would help explain my query. The Skinchangers/Wargs would be elite fighters, able to keep watch for thousands of years. While the 'normal' men of NW turned Wights would slowly deteriorate like Beric. Cool thread.
  7. Hi Evolett, and thank you. Absolutely. The tale suggests the cave system was so long that Gendel & Gorne (or one of them) got horribly lost. I agree that it would run along a section of the Wall, and I would go as far to say it would be a rather large section. And wouldn't rule out the cave system reaching from coast to coast, (Gendel & Gorne only traversed a part of the system after all) The entirety of Westeros seems to be linked via cave systems and tunnels. Haha. There's the wormways as well. Quite possible they connect to each of the castles along the Wall. I should have mentioned, further evidence in support of the weirwood trees being embedded in the Wall can be found in the tale of the 79 Sentinels. They are literally symbolic trees embedded within the Wall. Symbolic trees embedded in the Wall to keep watch at that. Very weirwoody.
  8. Hi Aldarion. The weirwood network under the Wall is a theory I proposed a while back. I'll quickly outline my reasons for thinking such. I propose the 'sapling' Bran sees at the Nightfort is actually a branch from a huge weirwood embedded into the Wall directly below. The face of that weirwood would therefore be the Black Gate. The magic the trees possess, and the greenseer inhabitation (or total immersion) of that tree would facilitate the face being able to move and talk. I think we've seen glimpses of this ability when Bran speaks to Theon, his face appears to Theon in the tree, he tastes blood, reaches out and touches Theon with a leaf (or hand). It seems Bran is at one with the tree and able to control it, I think it's George's version of the Ents. Anyhoo, the Wall and its potential weirwood network. If, as I suggest the sapling Bran sees is actually a branch from a tree below then this passage in a Tyrion chapter is interesting. Where the Black Brothers aren't chopping down the trees, the weirwoods are popping up right next to the Wall. I think these weirwoods are branches from weirwood trees below the surface or actually embedded into the Wall. These branches are bursting through the ground and being mistaken as saplings. (Alternatively, they could be saplings that are sprouting from the weirwood network below. The premise remains the same, the weirwood network spreads throughout the Wall from East to West) If this is the case and the the Wall was built on a weirwood grove (or hollow hill site) that spreads from coast to coast it would explain why Mel thinks the Wall is a 'hinge of the world'. It would be the most sacred and magical place in all of Westeros. It may help with any magic required in building the Wall and explain the ward running all along the Wall etc. Where we've seen a magical ward, a weirwood tree, caves, tunnels etc have been present. Storm's End being the obvious example, Bloodraven's hollow hill (and perhaps Winterfell's crypts) We've seen weirwoods can thrive underground as well. Pretty much all the weirwoods we've seen are growing above a cave system & tunnels etc. They grow atop hollow hills. The Wall is a likely candidate as the site of the biggest hollow hill site in all of Westeros. The hollow hills have weirwood trees, caves, tunnels etc all of which are present at the Wall. In conclusion, in my opinion the Wall has a lot of evidence that's suggests it's a magical hollow hill site with weirwoods growing all along it from coast to coast. Embedded into the foundations of the Wall itself. I agree that the Pando theory @LynnS suggested is a good one. Cheers (Off to catch up with the rest of this thread)
  9. Hi @Nevets Yes, Hildy is Hildy and yes it is a siege. I respect your opinion that it may be as simple as that, but with all the clues George has given us regards BWB sympathisers I don't think it's a stretch to consider there may be nuances and that everything may not be as it seems at first glance. Unless I've missed something (totally possible) we don't get any information on the physical condition of Raventree's residents other than that Tytos looks gaunt. Many characters look gaunt, and the fields around Raventree were burnt on Tywin's orders so that maybe a contributing factor to Tytos' gaunt appearance. As for there being no need for spies at Raventree, I disagree. If Vance has orchestrated Jaime's trip to Raventree then it would make total sense to implant spies/supporters within that camp to keep an eye on the movements of Jaime and his retinue. Especially if their plan is to alienate Jaime and weaken his position so they can approach him with less risk. The clues and set up for BWB and River Lords cooperation is comprehensive, and once the reader is aware of said set up these conclusions are a natural progression. By no means confirmation, but certainty fair game for realistic discussion. Here's a quick run down of the set up in Arya's chapters with the BWB for readers unaware of what I'm talking about. BWB network of friends Arya + BWB meet Lord Lychester. When they meet the Lady of the Leaves, Jack-be-Lucky is also with her, and claims he is from Piper lands. At Acorn Hall, they meet Lady Smallwood. Next is the Hound's trial with the BWB. He is accused of killing people from houses Roote, Charlton and Bracken. They then meet with Notch, from Goodbrook's village. The BWB has also been in contact with the Vance Maester. Arya and the BWB also visit The Peach, a brothel where these camp followers would have been working. So the families/Houses noted in these chapters as BWB sympathisers are..... Lychester, Vance, Roote, Goodbrook, Smallwood, Piper, Bracken and Charlton. When Jaime arrives at siege of Riverrun in AFFC we have this very revealing quote to tie these clues together... Jaime then muses about the fact the Bracken's are fighting the Blackwood's at Raventree. (The one missing is House Charlton, who are sworn to the Frey's, and probably with their retinue) This set up is telling the reader that these Houses supposedly supporting Jaime and the Lannister-Frey army at Riverrun are in fact BWB supporters. We can also add to that the camp followers or sex workers linked to The Peach. (As detailed in my previous post, the camp followers or sex workers are obviously working against the Lannister-Frey men) It's interesting that Jaime muses on the Bracken/Blackwood siege in the very same passage. This set up has long been in the works (From ACOK into AFFC) and outlines all the BWB sympathisers we've visited in the previous books. I think it's very reasonable to consider that the author wants the reader to consider the fact that Bracken & Blackwood are to be put in the same bracket. That of collaborative BWB sympathisers or supporters. So Vance alienating Jaime by sending him to Raventree and keeping close tabs on their retinue is by no means a stretch. In fact it makes total sense. I can't find any text that says Jaime has several hundred men with him. Maybe I'm missing that passage? And I'm not sure what Jaime concealing his activities has to do with this? I agree he's not concealing his activities. I find Brienne and the BWB following trampled grass and poop a poor literary device. Once the reader has realised there is a sophisticated trail of clues to follow, this outcome is realistic and a far more nuanced line of thinking. Maybe they could ask locals where the big ass army is camped. Alternatively, they could have well positioned supporters in place to give them constant updates and gain the upper hand in knowing Jaime's movements. Yes, the fact that Jaime trusts Brienne is a huge bonus to the BWB. Brienne is in a horrible position, I'm sure she doesn't want to lie to Jaime but she has little choice if she wants to save Pod and Co. The size of Jaime's retinue is absolutely relevant. It is far easier and less dangerous to approach Jaime if he has a smaller support network around him. Indeed. We already have the clues to decipher who many of the BWB sympathisers are, and there may be more. As for Hildy (and to loop back around to the OP) you may be right that her presence didn't particularly matter in that scene. After all, any information about Jaime's whereabouts could have been relayed by people in the Bracken or Blackwood camps. But with all the set up regards The Peach, camp followers or sex workers I think it is absolutely reasonable to consider the fact that Hildy is a BWB spy and a good catch by the OP. As for my personal view that the siege may be a set up as well, you are right to point out that the siege has been going on for months. Jaime muses that it's been 'half a year'. But I am still of the opinion that this being part of a set up is a reasonable take. Bracken only has 500 men outside Raventree, there are no siege towers and Jaime (and the author) mentions how feeble this siege seems to be. If Bracken & Blackwood want to avoid giving their presence and supposed support to Jaime and the Lannister-Frey army then a siege is the perfect ruse. Add to that how it may play into the potential trickery I've outlined above and it works beautifully as a way for the Riverland's/BWB (and George) to manipulate the enemy by leading them astray and into BWB sympathiser territory. It would be a clever move and potentially give them the upper hand as they are always one step ahead. To conclude, there is so much manipulation, spy craft, double crossing, anti Lannister-Frey sentiment, BWB/River Lord support that I think the arguments I have laid out are ripe for discussion and shouldn't be so easily dismissed. Of course we are all entitled to our own opinions, and if you are right I'll be the first one to concede that point. But at this juncture I personally think the Riverland's is working together on a huge scale, so all of these points are a realistic and viable option.
  10. Hi @FourRavensBlackOnWhite hope you're well. Yep, spot on. Nice catch. Most of the Riverlands is working alongside the BWB, and the way Grrm has written those RL's chapters is masterful. During Arya's BWB chapters we visit many of the Riverland's Lords and Houses, confirming them as supporters and sympathisers. One of the places they visit is The Peach, a brothel. So the camp followers or sex workers are shown to be BWB supporters from very early on. Then we have the Queen 'O' Whores, a camp follower we find keeping Ryman Frey company. Ryman had placed Robb Stark's crown on the Queen 'O' Whore's head. Later on Ryman is hanged by the BWB and Lady Stonheart is suddenly in possession of said crown. Presumably this camp follower led Ryman to his death by tipping of the BWB of their movements. Again a sex worker involved in the destruction of Lannister - Frey men at arms. We also have Petyr Frey who was in the company of a camp follower/sex worker just before he was hanged by the BwB. In Merrett Frey’s POV/Epilogue he thinks this of Petyr..... Hildy makes a fourth example of where a camp follower has had a major influence on proceedings in the Riverland's. I personally think the whole Blackwood - Bracken - siege thing was a ruse anyway. It was Karyl Vance who convinced Jaime to go Ravntree Hall and treat with Blackwood & Bracken, making sure to massage Jaime's ego by telling him it would be only his word they would repect and listen to. Yeah right. More likely it was a way to get Jaime away from the majority of his supporters at Riverrun by getting him to travel to Raventree with a far smaller retinue than normal, therefore making him an easier target. Then once Jaime arrived at Raventree he commented on how passive the siege was, it was a huge surprise to him. I reckon that's because it wasn't really a siege at all, more a mock siege designed as a ruse to entice Jaime into danger. Then there's the suspicious Hildy interaction and Brienne finding them so easily etc. The whole thing from start to finish is a trap Jaime has walked straight into. THE BWB and the River Lords have been playing him like Tom 'O' Sevens plays his harp. Can't wait for this story arc in Winds, so much going on.
  11. Hey @Jon-Snow Thank you kindly, I love everything old gods, greenseer, CotF, the North etc. Bran especially. Well, there was obviously a deal made or agreed, but I'm not sure there would be any sort of communication or verbal agreement. I tend to think this is something Craster was aware of, an old wives tale so to speak. There have certainly been sacrificial offerings made to the Others in the past. The Night's King was found to have been sacrificing to the Others after his downfall. It's interesting that it says all records were destroyed, Old Nan seems to know the tale. How so? Well, the passage also tells us that it was the Stark of Winterfell and the King beyond the Wall, Joramun of the wildlings, who combined their forces to defeat him. So if any remnants of this tale is to have been passed down or remembered it would have to be by word of mouth and the most likely candidates to have done this would be the Stark household and the wildlings. The Stark family may have been telling these stories for thousands of years, explaining why Old Nan knows these details. But more importantly for our purposes, the wildlings have never kept records but told their histories in songs and stories. It is likely therefore that the wildlings would have potentially heard these tales of sacrificing to the Others many times. If this information was to be remembered thousands of years later then then the Free Folk are the best candidates to hold this ancient knowledge. There are still many questions, is the blood important? Why not the daughters? Why don't other wildlings sacrifice to keep the Others at bay? Etc. But regards a deal being brokered, my thoughts are that Craster knew of this practise and realised that there was a good chance that sacrificing his sons would appease the cold gods.
  12. Hi @Jon-Snow Regarding the language of the Others, I think they are talking in the True Tongue, the language of the Singers and the greenseers. The two key phrases here are I think... 1) In a language that Will did not know. & 2) The voice was like the cracking of ice on a winter lake. ‐------------------- 1. An unknown language There have been a couple of characters experience this feeling that they're hearing an unknown language. The Tongue or language Sam did not know was the leaves rustling in the trees. The trees being described as groaning and creaking suggests it was windy, enabling the rustling of those leaves. The sounds of nature, the True Tongue. Again the language a human ear can't decipher is that of the wind in the trees and those leaves rustling. Grrm gave us a hint about the wind and rustling leaves as speech back in AGOT. So in conclusion, a language that humans can't understand is the language of nature, the language of the old gods, the Singers, the greenseers. So what else can we learn about that? ------------- 2.Voice cracking like ice on a winter lake. Let's take a closer look at the True Tongue and what it sounds like. There's that language no human can understand again. This time the reader is told straight up that it's the True Tongue. It's the language of the CotF, the Singers. Delving into the World book, we're told what that language of the CotF/Singers (or True Tongue) sounds like. Stones in a brook, rain upon water and there's that wind and rustling leaves again. The language of the CotF & Singers that no human can understand is the True Tongue and its based upon the sounds of nature, the sounds they hear every day. This is an ancient language that is long forgotten by man. But that passage says Brandon learned how to comprehend the language of the CotF but that the tale isn't worth repeating. Well I think its not worth repeating because we're already reading it. One must become a human greenseer to comprehend it and eventually speak it. I think that's what Brandon the Builder did to understand the True Tongue, he became a greenseer. So what about current timeline Bran? Our Brandon is also learning the True Tongue. Notice how the night was windless yet the leaves were still rustling Theon's name. I think this is Bran being in total control of the tree. Leaves as hands. Anyway, I digress. The point being that the sounds of nature are what the True Tongue sounds like. So to bring this back full circle, are there are any examples that we can link to the AGOT Prologue passage about the voice sounding like the cracking of ice on a lake? Well yes. Their voices in the True Tongue were as pure as winter air. Kind of like the Others voices sounding like a cracking of ice on a lake. Certainly the cracking of ice on a lake could be described as a sound of nature and one they would hear in their natural surroundings. To conclude, any time we hear a language long forgotten, a tree with its leaves rustling, or in this case a living (or not ) being speaking with what sounds like the sounds of nature, it's the True Tongue in my opinion. For what's it's worth, ravens and wolves speak it too. They even whisper it to Coldhands, who obviously understands it. (Coldhands being the closest thing we have in the story to an Other, this is good evidence that the Others language is indeed the True Tongue.) And the wolves. I think this means that Bran will be able to converse with the Others. He'll be able to speak and comprehend the True Tongue. And of course that the CotF can also converse with them, and have probably been able to for thousands of years. Can't wait for Winds, Bran's arc is going to be incredible. Cheers
  13. Thank you kindly. I think it was Joe Magician that first pointed out the Others study Waymar & his sword in particular before daring to attack & kill him. Why? Joe came to the conclusion that the Others thought Waymar may have been a threat because of who he potentially was & the weapon he was potentially weilding. Once they realised he was a mere mortal they felt comfortable enough to attack. So who would they be scared of? TPtwP is a good candidate. If they are aware of prophecy, or have their own prophecy, then perhaps they know there will be another saviour with a magic sword that will fight & could potentially beat them. The fact Waymar looks a bit like Jon Snow helps the theory. Do you mean that AA was an evil character? Who was the magical maester that was wrong? Apologies, my mind wonders. But yes, AA was hailed as a hero in the texts but I think there is much evidence to say he was a villain. Murdering ones wife is not cool. Thanks. ☺ Because their own blood will be the end of them. If you know a male from your family will kill you in the future it would make sense for you to eliminate each & every male ever born within your family so as protect your own life. No male relative, no death for you. So the Others may be on the lookout for the PtwP or the magical Stark that is a danger to them. Explains the interest in Waymar (Northern Highborn with nice sword) & why they want Craster's sons (if they have Stark blood) They don't want or care about his daughters because they can't be a Prince. It's a male who is prophesied to be the 'Prince'twP, if they know this then they wouldn't be bothered about Craster's daughters. However, why the Others would be happy with a sheep or a dog instead I cannot answer. There's so much to talk about when it comes to AA, Nissa Nissa, the weirnet, a prince that was promised potentially being a child stolen from the Others back in the day, Stark relationship with the Others, blood lines etc. It would take a huge essay to really explain these things with text to back up the theories.
  14. Okay, I am not familiar with the Craster is a Stark theory (I should read up more on that) but if he is then that could explain why they only want his sons. Another theory I (and everyone else I'm sure) do know, is that Jon is the Prince that was promised. It seems his blood is the key factor in him being the PtwP, Stark & Targ etc. But what if it's only the Stark blood that's important, or perhaps more realistically the Stark blood is what the Others know of to be important. (Targs weren't around thousands of years ago etc) So the Others may be interested in Craster's sons for their Stark blood. Maybe a son from his line is a possibility when it comes to the next PtwP. I don't have any evidence per se, but the Craster is a Stark and Stark blood being a key component of the PtwP it may be of keen interest to the Others. Spitballing, and I've not put loads of thought into this one but it seemed relevant so thought I'd throw it in here. Edit: Or perhaps those with Stark blood are the only humans who can become Others? The rest would just be Wights.
  15. Hi Lynn. Nice idea. The Wall being described as a sword and a snake makes me think of dragons, specifically the different ways George has described his swords as dragon swords. We have the obvious example of dragonsteel. We have Valyrian Steel forged in the fires of dragons. And Dawn is said to have been forged from a fallen star, or meteor. Falling stars or meteors are often referred to as dragons irl mythology, and I think the theory that the dragons in the 'A thousand, thousand dragons pouring forth' from the moon are meteors is correct. (See Lml's moon meteor theory for anyone interested in learning more) The Wall is also described as an ice dragon by Jon. As per Seam's sword -- words pun... A magic sword denying entry. Magic words permitting passage. The magic words enabling Bran and Co to pass through the Wall are the Night's Watch oath, starting with the line... 'I am the sword in the darkness'. It could also be... 'I speak the words in the darkness'. I mentioned my theory about the words or phrase 'who goes there? Or who are you?' being key magical words on page 4 of the 'Time and causality' thread. As an extension of that idea, perhaps one needs to utter some magic words (killing words as per @ravenous reader's theory) to activate a magical sword. Say, Dawn or the next Lightbringer. Magic words and magic swords having to work together. Anyhoo, I've got a lot to catch up on, I'll work my way through this thread. Oh and hi @Curled Finger. Hope you're well.
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