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Le Cygne

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  1. Interesting comments on this one: Here's one comment, but they are all telling: I will never forget what it is like to stay up until 4AM and stuff myself with coffee and slowly realizing over the course of 6 weeks that not only it won't get better but it will get progressively worse. The slow murder of my enthusiasm, going to bed both tired and utterly disappointed to the point where I felt dead inside and I didn't care at all... No other media will disappoint me as much ever.
  2. There was a huge flap over the darkness, the stupid tactics, Arya killing the NK, etc. So much for Jon, everyone said! So much for prophesy! Over in an instant. Anticlimax! Waste of his whole arc! Why her? Why is it so dark? Why did they do this? Why did they do that? And so on. Before and after that, yet another manufactured cat fight between female leads, Cersei just standing around doing nothing, Jaime negating his entire arc, Sansa thanking LF and Ramsay for rape empowerment, ... That the final two episodes surpassed suspicions that the worst ending ever was ahead only added to the feelings of discontent. And prior to that season, it had been noted the writing had declined after they ran out of material. So yeah, there was lots of criticism, mixed in with sunk costs for viewers. For the media, there was always a symbiotic relationship. The puff pieces made money for the media companies. Hype it up, keep access, ride the gravy train. Hibberd articles for EW is the perfect example.
  3. Like Arya Ninja Turtle, where they admitted they kept trying to find a way to SHOCK us. If someone has to sit there and think, hey, I want a twist here, it's just no damn good. A story has to lead you where it goes, and that includes any sudden change in direction. They weren't writing a story, that's the problem.
  4. I love that Kim's darker side has come out. Did Jimmy bring it out, or was she drawn to Jimmy because she wanted to bring it out, or both. I like when stories explore the darker side of characters. Dany was bullied by her brother and she and other characters in the story (like Sandor, Arya) respond to such bullying by trying to help others. But they are not perfect, so they help in imperfect ways. It's just so interesting to see it play out. I think what GRRM is trying to show is that ruling is not an easy thing to do, and sometimes things just don't turn out perfectly. But he has a lot of compassion for Dany. I would have liked to see this exploration continue, rather than making her Suddenly Satan, which was just really stupid. (Also as you point out, you can't hold one character to different standards than the other characters. It's yet more evidence they were just throwing stuff at the wall. The show was not art, it was a wet fart.)
  5. Quoting this for the already huge and ever growing "yeah they totally changed course" file. And it wasn't only Dany's story where they changed course. The show was not art, there was nothing profound or sacred about it. It was entertainment that required a lot of audience participation to make any sense of it. Making a popular protagonist Suddenly Satan was such a bizarre choice. They told the actors "just say the lines" and didn't let the directors know what was going on. That they had to fight to make the characters seem human, that says it all.
  6. Yeah, it just doesn't sound like the books at all. They made up whatever show Dany did that wasn't in the books through season 5, and the only thing they could hold up after that was the Tarlys. Other than that, what, people threaten to kill her dragons and she is like, nope. Then she rescues Jon Duh and total strangers after the bizarrely stupid A Wight for Cersei nonsense, and loses a dragon, yet still helps them. Suddenly Dickon, a boy who knows damn well his father treated his kind, beloved brother abominably is going to go along with him and refuse to kneel when everyone else does. And his father is evil but also not stupid. Just not buying it, and then they just had to go there with their typical nastiness toward women and make Dany go mad over Jon Snow not wanting to commit incest, when she wouldn't want to be with him anyway. Not to mention he's undead, which made no difference to him or to anyone. As if. He's totally not her type. It would be the most abrupt personality change for her to want him in the first place. I think there was a lot of Arianne and fAegon substituting going on, and they fumbled the ball badly. And regardless, it was their show, to do whatever they like, as they demonstrated many times before. They miscalculated, badly. How they could not see the backlash coming is astonishing, yet predictable. They went too far and ran out of time to play their silly post-debacle damage control games.
  7. Also another thought, GRRM called Tyrion the grayest of the grays (I have quoted the source before, he definitely said this) and he also said murdering Shae was his darkest deed. And yet... Tyrion is a saint on the show, and Dany is Satan. And as we pointed out above, they included a lot of his dark deeds on the show, but they just blew his off, and blew up Dany's.
  8. All of this. And then that asinine comment that her trajectory was implicit from the start. You could play that game with all of them. Let's do Tyrion. He armed the mountain clans out of spite, knowing it would lead to even more atrocities. He led the mass killing at Blackwater to keep the wrongful king Joffrey in power, knowing that would lead to even more attrocities, too. He kidnapped Shae for his own personal pleasure, then moved her to the keep for his own convenience, even though his father warned him she would be in danger. He forcibly married Sansa after Shae begged him to go across the sea with the gold he had in hand instead (he said no, I'm a Lannister). He murdered Shae, then murdered his father, not for all his atrocities, but for not loving him and for having sex with the woman he murdered for not loving him. Not loving Tyrion is dangerous. Dany didn't love him, and he talked Jon into murdering her, too. Tyrion at Blackwater: "Those are brave men knocking at our door. Let’s go kill them!" With weapons of mass destruction! Kill them all, to keep Joffrey - the illegitimate psycho monster - king! You see, his trajectory was implicit from the start. He was destined to be rewarded in the end with the job he always wanted.
  9. You can't have it both ways, show someone has brutalized his sister her entire life, then pretend it was a bad thing that he died right after threatening to kill her. Not a single tear was shed by the audience when Drogo killed Viserys. Good riddance to bad rubbish. These are the same ones who said Sansa should give herself to the Boltons because she'd been traumatized before. Why wasn't she stronger, they chided. Nothing like more trauma! Then they cheered her on when she smirked while feeding someone to dogs. I guess Dany's mistake was not thanking the writers for putting her through hell. She wasn't grateful enough. In truth, they just didn't gut her story enough. They could gut Sansa and use her as their puppet, but they couldn't do it to Dany because too many people liked her. If they had to make their living as salesmen, they'd be broke. Nobody is buying their lies.
  10. Listening to some more Vince Gilligan, and this is what Benioff/Weiss did NOT do and should have done. (Then again, since they didn't bother telling a story, there was nothing to make clear.) Other showrunners and directors very much don't want the writer to say the stuff in between the dialogue. To me, the stuff in between the dialogue is what it's all about... You've got to keep in mind, what do people do in real life. Very often in real life, people say the opposite of what they mean, so you have to work that into your dialogue. To me, that's the key to it, too, having the characters saying the opposite of what they really mean and yet allowing the audience to understand it. And if the audience is going to understand those kind of moments, the crew and the cast need to understand it first. And so you have to put all that in between stuff in between those chunks of dialogue, you've got to explain things... You have to keep it short and sweet but you have to make it clear. Clarity above all.
  11. I know very little about warfare, but it reminded me of the first day of the battle of the Somme. They just kept going out and getting slaughtered. But there was no underlying reason on the show for this. WWI will always tell the psychology of WHY they kept sending people to die. The show didn't bother. The Westeros fighters were not portrayed as stiff upper lip, or fool headed prior to this. Or even after. They never actually bothered to explain (a la the story structure Vince Gilligan was talking about above) why this was happening. They just threw stuff at the screen to fill time, but since no one could actually see the keys rattling, the audience was only distracted by how stupid it was. It was filler until Arya Ninja Turtle did her thing. The only relevant action in the entire episode was the end of the Night King, and that was over in a moment, and stupid, too.
  12. So how it's really done: "You can't build that skyscraper unless you've got the architectural blueprints to begin with." Another good look at how they did it: ‘I am looking for authenticity and characters, for writers who don’t cheat.’ To reach the bravura scenes that everyone likes to write, many shows force the characters to do something completely implausible or seriously stupid. It is almost a convention. But this he won’t accept. ‘I like seeing that writers work that much harder to get there properly. ‘Characters all act in recognisable human ways. We are all experts - you don’t have to be a writer to be an expert in humanity. We all have a good BS detector, so we can see when this person would not do that. I always say, “Work that much harder, even for popcorn movies, to make the characters behave as human beings would, and it pays such dividends.”’ They have round about eight people in the room, and Gilligan is enchanted by the process of working collectively with really clever people who contribute equally to the script. ‘It’s like a sequestered jury that never ends,’ he said. ‘ We are sitting around a table and talking ad nauseam right down to the most minute granular detail - what the characters are saying, what they want, what they are wearing, what the weather looks like. We are always seeing it in visual terms as well, we want the show to be visual storytelling. https://www.screenhub.com.au/news-article/features/television/david-tiley/what-did-vince-gilligan-do-that-made-breaking-bad-so-good-254163
  13. Carice on the nudity (there are a bunch more looking back articles we already posted). Mel, along with Dany and Missandei, were their go to naked women in the later seasons. "When the Me Too movement started, that's when it started sinking in for me," van Houten told Insider. "And it did sort of change my perspective on my whole career, not just 'Game of Thrones.'" "In retrospect, I thought, 'Why did that scene have to be nude? Why was that normal?' I did question things and it was not so much that I was blaming anyone, but that's just how we evolved, and just how the movement affected me. "I became very aware of the male gaze..." Van Houten says this change of thought process is "me confronting my own feeling of 'that's what the audience wants' and not feeling confident to say, 'Wait a minute, why would I have to do that?' It's just our conditioned behaviour as females, and not thinking about what that means." https://www.insider.com/carice-van-houten-me-too-nude-scenes-game-of-thrones-2020-5
  14. Also thinking some more about this... rant part 2... They had not properly done the bold. That would require time and space of its own to be established properly, to give the relationship time to breathe. You can't just drop it on a busy episode like this, and have it actually mean something. The first thing they do is often an abrupt unexplained shift, too. Shae "loves" Tyrion. (WHY?) = abrupt unexplained shift Then she doesn't. (WHY?) = abrupt unexplained shift It's cheating. I don't want to give them that a scene all by itself might be good, because a scene is NEVER all by itself! The hard work is making it part of the whole, and they don't bother with that.
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