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Karmarni

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About Karmarni

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  1. Oh, I was looking at Byronic heroes just the other day! I definitely think that Sandor fits this character description. He is an anti-hero, it's practically spelled out from the beginning. When he first tells Sansa about his face, we see her reach out to him empathetically, and fear for him, and so do we in that moment. We begin to see more of the picture of who he is. The telepathy that Ceron mentions above, that seems very Beauty and the Beast to me. They just know, they are connected by a bond that can withstand distances. GRRM is doing this with Sandor when Sansa continues to think upon him. Keeping him alive, keeps her interested and connected to him. I like how both Jane in Brontë's work, and Sansa in GRRM's, both challenge Rochester/Sandor. It does put less emphasis on social distinctions, but it also adds tension and it furthers their relationship. By fighting, they get to know the other even better. They see how they argue and how they overcome arguing. Ceron "irrational and fiery soul" description - how true! And it's interesting that in this Gothic novel, published in 1847, the author has written this non-traditional, but yet traditional, female character. Sansa herself is currently a more traditional character, but I feel that she will make some changes in the forthcoming TWoW. It's utterly amazing to me how many similarities there are between Jane Eyre and Sansa and Sandor. -- "My little friend!" said he, "I wish I were in a quiet island with only you;" -- "Little bird," said he, "I was on the Quiet Island," I can completely see that second sentence uttered by Sandor sometime in the future.
  2. I love this! And this novel. Cannot count how many times I have been stimulated and irritated in love. At the same time. It’s these moments that keep it all interesting.
  3. I like what you’re saying here. I’ve often thought about “whether you will it or no”. I like the strong feelings idea. This was an early moment between them that seems to foreshadow what happened the night of Blackwater. It also begs the question, what about when she wills it? Because the story is progressing, in Sandor’s absence, with Sansa coming to realize that it is the Hound that she is willing to be with. She becomes accustomed to the idea of kissing him since she thinks about it often. She dreams about him, she wonders what happened to him; she obviously cares about him. She prayed for him. She wondered if she should have gone with him. It seems that the story is set up for her to recount these things to him when she sees him again. In classic romances, the two characters spend a chunk of time apart. In the beginning they are unsuitable or dislike each other. The non-POV is the character who is massaging the perpective (or plot) of the POV character. This change is at the heart of the story. The growth that happens, for better or worse, leads to the eventual dénouement showing how and why the POV character needed this growth. And that, in romances, leads to the reconciliation of the two characters and their love recognized by them. Without this massaging in the beginning, and the time apart, the characters, ironically, would not have grown ‘close’.
  4. “Do you remember where the heart is?” Sandor Clegane and Sansa Stark represent the ‘love song’ of A Song of Ice and Fire. Theirs is an enduring relationship that begins from Sansa’s first chapter. Their interactions highlight where the heart is. Do we remember, in such a sprawling story, that there is a heart to it? The songs and stories of future generations are being written by the characters in this generation. And I do believe that Sansa and Sandor will be glorified in a love song. Sansa’s favorite song and story is that of Florian and Jonquil. She liked the kissing stories best, says Bran. Sansa’s narrative is about marriage. From the beginning, to the latest (as of this posting) Alayne I sample The Winds of Winter chapter, it has been marriage as the important plot points for Sansa. Her betrothal to Joffrey brought her south; her forced marriage to Tyrion kept her in King’s Landing to be used by Littlefinger to facilitate killing Joffrey. Once in the clutches of Littlefinger, she is poised to be married by him to Harrold Hardyng. Will she marry him, submit yet again to a husband picked out for her by someone else? I doubt it - that blood and fire stained cloak in her cedar chest says otherwise. So does her singing a song that hopes for a "better day" and a "kinder way." Sansa, like Beauty (wonderfully outlined above by Le Cygne), will make her own choice in marriage. And I have no doubt there will be a third cloak of Sandor Clegane’s.
  5. Karmarni

    Rant and Rave without Repercussions [S7 Leaks Edition]

    I think this is especially true. It isn't that women might do it better, that doesn't seem to be the point being made. It's that there needs to be an opportunity for women's view, the Female Gaze, to be seen. Outlander does a good job of that. GoT is all about the male gaze, and that's a problem for me. It's catering to a sexist view of women. Not having women involved, at every level, has resulted in a deficit of the female gaze. And it's not just showing a butt or penis, it's HOW you look at a man that shows he's desirable. GoT doesn't get that right at all. And women and men provide different views, experiences, that make a show or book or whatever art form, great. It's their je ne sais quoi that matters.
  6. Karmarni

    Small Questions v. 10105

    Sure. Being a knight or not does not preclude owning property. If Gregor died intestate, with no wife and no kids, Sandor would be next to inherit.
  7. Karmarni

    why was Ladystoneheart cut out

    That's the truth. I'm sick of the way they play their "shocks" because what with their advanced groundwork, they just aren't shocking. And they still try. Pathetic. I think Arya did take over the LS role in the show attempt-at-a-story. And where IS Brienne? She may indeed meet Arya in the Riverlands as she meets LS in the books. What's frustrating is that LS, Brienne and Jaime were left on such a hollow cliffhanger. What's to come? Who knows? But it sure didn't seem like Jaime would get out of that easily. So why does the show have him back in KL to witness Cersei crazies? It must be that Brienne is the one who owes a debt to Arya now. And, she does, in a way, because of what she did to Sandor. And she's now in Sansa's service, which will probably throw Arya and Sandor for a loop. Ensuing misunderstandings galore . . . for instance, "Well, then, if you're protecting her, why aren't you with her?"
  8. Karmarni

    Tyrion + Sansa potentially Reunite

    I am surprised, to say the least, that there are those on this thread who want to run other posters down, call them obsessive, unreasonable and childish; then tell them to stop posting. That's not friendly, not polite and does not help keep an open discourse. Being told to NOT post anywhere on this forum IS, IN AND OF ITSELF, completely unreasonable.
  9. Karmarni

    Tyrion + Sansa potentially Reunite

    Sansa is lucky to have survived it all. And as a virgin. It's deep plot armor on Sansa's part. It makes her first sexual experience all the more powerful. Which is why I think it WILL be all the more powerful. I don't think GRRM 'protected' her from the possibility of a negative encounter to turn around and have her experience a negative encounter later on. I think it will be, more or less, positive (what first time is ever truly ecstatic, right?) That she will marry, for real, and have children, I think that's pretty much a given. She's the Stark-blooded momma in the current story. Littlefinger and the Harry plot and all that, that's actually Sansa's 'side' story, the learning curve story. That she will ultimately return to Sansa's story, and not live out Alayne's side-story, seems evident. Littlefinger and Harry represent an inverted, perverted Ned and Joffrey from her real story. But the characters from her 'real' story matter. And Tyrion might come into it as a hurdle or a means to an end later on. But I think of Sansa as the 'songs and stories girl.' That she would get her own song and story seems a given to me. And no, it won’t be a fairytale kind of story, GRRM has shown that by his repeated use of the device that what the singers sing and storytellers write is far from the actual truth. However, for Sansa, who likes the kissing stories best and those of knightly valor, she for whom the Tourney of the Hand was the dreamiest days in her life - who is the knight, the one that will be memorable, the one with the nick just like all those knights from her stories? Sandor, the Hound. And a Hound. From the moment his 'handle' was referenced, what with all the sigils representing important elements of the story, it seemed he'd go with the wolves better than the lions (and my thought was played out by the Hound, no less, in ASoS). It all adds up. In the end, from plot, characterization, story elements, action, conflict and resolution viewpoint, this ‘song and story’ is playing out across the novels. It is the central story element catering to romance that this series has. That cannot, of course, be said for Tyrion and Sansa.
  10. Karmarni

    Tyrion + Sansa potentially Reunite

    I'm of the opinion that GRRM is telling a story that is supposed to be layered and interesting, and given the amount of posts and length of time of this forum, it obviously is. But it is his story and I don't think he's re-doing history or retelling it, with new character names. This is purportedly his 'masterpiece' entry in the written word department. Hopefully we will have TWoW sometime in the next year and will be able to continue the debate, including the new plot and twists that are revealed. I know it's fun to pick out historical references, but again, I see this as GRRM's baby, his story to be told. He's not going to make it just like history, how can it be? It's got dragons and warging in it. So, that being said, this is a Show thread and the Show has played very fast and loose with the book elements that remain. The rest will be what GRRM told the showrunners and we, as fans (and book readers) have only the Show to guide us there (and it's not the best guide, given that it has failed to have characters remember its own history). However, the Show has continued to have their Sansa refer to Tyrion as being kind to her. I would assume that this means she will at some point in the future, expect him to treat her kindly. Perhaps the twist will be that he doesn't, not that he does. Now that would be juicy! Imagine the anger from show-only Tyrion fans. This isn't out of the range of possibility, given that the show likes to dangle things in front of viewers eyes, only to snatch them away at the last minute -- or lead the viewer down one path only to have it be a dead end, or just a worse path than they were on. I like the idea of Tyrion turning dark. The show has had him be incredibly good, way better than his book character. He failed in Meereen, that could be the tip of the iceberg. Since he's with fire-and-blood Dany, and he was OK with giving the slaver's seven (!!) more years of slavery on the show, I'm going to venture that the most entertaining turn of Tyrion's future story would be for him to be ruthless and vindictive when he returns to Westeros with an army - ships, the Unsulled, Dothraki and dragons in tow. He may go after any and all that have harmed him in the past. Cersei, for one, had better watch out. As for Sansa, Tyrion of the Show has not been shown to remember her or seem to care about her. If they do run into each other, I assume she'll be an antagonist of his, if she remains with the Winterfell storyline, with Littlefinger, or if she takes on another story (her own, perhaps?)
  11. Karmarni

    [Poll] How would you rate episode 603?

    Oh, yes, yes, a thousand times yes. Worst marginalization of ARYA as the driving force in Jon Snow's death and resurrection - some damn random Wilding boy named Olly. Bloody good riddance. No, they don't. And so there's no confusion among viewers, he's still Ser Gregor. Oh, goody goody. Jaime and Cersei and Gregor, just hangin' out, doin' the rounds at King's Landing. Arya, beaten and bruised and just got her sight back because either she's still lying or Jaqen is. I feel for her. Certainly no respect for her as a person there at the House of Black & White. Ready for her to realize this instead of want to be nobody. ToJ was ho hum. Young Ned could have been a lot better with dialogue delivery. Jon was kind of boring. I wanted more, not just a slap dash, walk off lame ending. They really aren't making any sense with Winterfell and the culling of the Starks and their direwolves. So, regretfully, we have another wolf down on the show. I'm sure it's because they've not put much of a priority on learning how to do CGI direwolves as opposed to CGI dragons. At Winterfell, I would have backed the new Umber over Karstark or Ramsay ANY DAY. But somehow the other two are in charge and Umber gave up his prizes to pip squeak Ramsay. Just doesn't make any sense.
  12. Karmarni

    [Spoilers] EP601

    ^^ Agree. This "just in time" stuff is easy to spot miles off in the show. Sansa getting Theon's OK was not empowering for the character. That she accepted an unknown woman, one who is carrying a Lannister sword and is with Podrick Payne, Tryion's squire, that should mean something to her. She should wonder about Brienne's allegiance. The Hound wondered - and it led to Arya wondering, rightly so. Brienne's allegiance will be called into question. That's a given for me. And I'm pretty certain she won't be choosing the Stark (or Sansa's) side in the future. To her regret, of course.
  13. Karmarni

    The future of Jaime and Brienne?

    Fascinating that so many would be happy to see Brienne with the Kingslayer, Sister-Banger, and Royal-Bastard-Begetter, but have problems with Sansa with Sandor Clegane. Talk about hypocrisy. Just saying. For what it's worth, I like Jaime.
  14. Karmarni

    [TWOW Spoilers] Alayne I, v. 3

    Littlefinger IS symbolically Sweetrobin and Sansa’s ‘father.’ And he’s the Lord Protector. Protector. But he’s not Protecting Sweetrobin by giving him sweetsleep and milk of the poppy. And he’s not Protecting Sansa by taking advantage of her blindness to his own advances on her and for pimping her out to Harry. Littlefinger never “courted” Cat. He was raised alongside her and Lysa. Here’s Catelyn: I don’t think it seems like Sansa is “starting to be fond of Harry.” I think it sounds like she’s following the cue cards that Littlefinger gave her. She even repeats Littlefinger’s instructions to herself, “Charm him. Entrance him. Bewitch him.” She also is developing a snarky sense of humor - more than she had and shows signs of enjoying wordplay. Also, Sansa already chose the enemy (Joffrey) over her family. Since then, she has not done much in the way of choosing for herself. She chose not to kneel when she was wed to the monster (Tyrion). She met with and ultimately escaped King’s Landing with the fool (Dontos), but unbeknownst to her, she landed right in the clutches of the ultimate enemy/monster and, perhaps, in the end, the fool (for her). But that’s much later . . . she’s not going to get out of this story without a few more scrapes and bruises. I can say that with complete faith because she does not seem to fully recognize her peril (Littlefinger wants to play come into her castle) yet, so there’s more ‘growth’ experiences yet to come.
  15. Karmarni

    [TWOW Spoilers] Alayne I, v. 3

    Whoa! That's a wild theory. Sansa is misremembering a kiss. The SSM that was quoted spells that out. GRRM says that it will lead to a "more important lapse in memory". And that this misremembered kiss "will eventually mean something." It seems ingrained in her memory. What will it lead to, the more important lapse in memory? Meaning, to me, what else will she treat in the same fashion and will it be connected to the 'kiss' or not? There's not a fantastical thing that happened with an 'open door' that's going to pop up later on to mean something. It's just a way to convey that Sansa attached meaning to this kiss that didn't happen and hung onto that memory. So she does this and we are told she'll do it again. The question is will it be related to this or something separate? Or to put it differently, does the "it" he references in the SSM mean the kiss or her mind's facility? Of course it could be both! Since it is specifically this 'kiss' that is the method the author uses to highlight Sansa's 'misremembering', I'd say that the kiss will be part of the more important mismemory to come. I refuse to honor the idea of a rape of Sansa in AGoT or attaching book meaning to something that happened in the show.
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