Prof. Cecily

Well, if she sticks to a story of either Renly or Joffry having taken her maidenhead, I don't know. Those religious fanatics will always be able to nab her her having entered the Great Sept on Maidens' Day. I can't predict the outcome. it could be anything from a walk of shame to becoming a Silent Sister to death. Unless GRRM has something else in mind for her. A lover? I'd say no. No lover at all. What do you reckon?

Well, hmmmm. We know Pycelle says she did. A POV of this Tyrell queen and thrice queen would have been interesting. You could well be right about the over-confidence, yes. Yet how do you defend yourself against a Cersei? The answer is obvious,of course. The Red Keep is full of staircases, after all.

Thank you! An interesting idea. Hmmm. It's hard for me to imagine a pupil of Lady Olenna would go to Pycelle for moon tea. Or anything else. Oh, yes. Cersei's reactions to Falyse's condition after being subjecting to Qyburn's learning experience is one of the most chilling things I've read so far in the saga.

Yes. And also, her acceptance of these horrors is a grotesque testimony of Cersei's spiralling madness. I wonder what role Qyburn is going to play in the future.

Perfect! Nice work. And here's what I found: So yes, the brunt of the charges are the lack of a maidenhead and the moon tea. Ser Osmund recants. As for the Blue Bard http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Blue_Bard It's a disgusting story,all in all. By the way, there was an historical Blue Bard. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geraint_the_Blue_Bard edited: Arggghhh! Like Oswain, Geraint was a fake.

A Feast for Crows - Cersei X

I'll look into that and thanks for the comment! In that case(and I've no doubt you're right there as I've only read ADwD twice and skimmed the trial scenes as quickly as I could) the evidence against the queen is her lack of a maidenhead and Pycell'es (now deceased) testimony about the moon tea. In the thread I cited from 2011, it's suggested that the queen's real crime is entering the sept on Maiden Day. I see this as a shout out to a divorce trial in ancient Rome against a noblewoman I seem to remember reading about.. Hmmm

My pleasure! The thread is an interesting read, though it degenerates to bickering in the last pages. I think the references to the real crimes of Queen Margaery rather intriguing: the lack of a maidenhead, as confirmed by a septa's examination the use of moon tea With her crimes thus defined, plus the damning confessions of the tortured men, I think GRRM is mirroring historical trials of medieval queens and noblewomen. High drama? Oh, yes.

I did a search and the best I could find was a thread in this very forum from 2011

I had a KvD liner. Did NOT work for me. The only liners that do work for me are NARS, so it that wasn't a surprise. I loved the texture and colour of the KvD liner.

Of course Aerys named Jaime to the KG as an insult to his old friend, trusted Hand, companion at arms, etc. Just as refusing the betrothal between Rhaegar and Cersei was an insult. Remember what Aerys said to Lord Tywin on that ocasion? The World of Ice and Fire - The Targaryen Kings: Aerys II Gods be good, that must have been a blow to the Lion of Lannister' pride. I have the impression Aerys never paid proper attention to the lyrics of The Rains of Castamere I don't get much of a feel for what happened at the Battle of the Trident- whatever the outcome, would ser Jaime have done his bloody deed if Aerys gave the order to burn all?

You won't find me denying Aerys' paranoia. However, remember who he had at his side- ser Jaime Lannister, the newest and youngest member of the KG. The causes of the first Dance of Dragons? You can read more about that starting on page 73 of TWOIAF Or here at our fabulous wiki http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Dance_of_the_Dragons Great reading for a lazy hot Sunday. Also, one of the gorgeous videos from the HO production

Oh, yes, indeed. Also, Cat has some features of Lady Jessica.

So there are hints of possible problems with the IB from Aerys' time. Interesting. From what I can see, the estrangement between Aerys and Tywin begins from the time Joanna Lannster was a lady-in-waiting to Queen Rhaella. And those tasteless comments on Lady Joanna's breasts happen in 272. Hardly an effort to lure the lady to his bed, don't you agree? This is all long before the Defiance of Duskendell, in AC 277. It's clear, of course, that the DoD unhinged the poor man's mind. as to rhaegar fighting for his fahter, i think it was more he was fighting for his house. robet was his cousin, and i bet he was well aware of how robert reacted to him and his, that stereotypical baratheon rage. Well, yes, of course he was fighting for his House. And his House is headed by his father. Also obviously. Given Aerys' penchant for abusing women AKA ' taking mistresses' it must have been alarming, to say the least, to see the son following in his father's footsteps. Robert and the other lords had had enough of enough. Also, their lives are at stake! Hmmm. Interesting. I didn't know that not all the lords of the Vale followed Lord Jon into rebellion. So much to learn! i dont think rhaegar would have been able to treat with the rebels as long as robert lead them. Of course not. Rhaegar has nothing to offer the rebels. The have rebelled against the throne, not him. Rhaegar commands the armies, not the realm. i also think that aerys would have tried to fire the city, regardless of who returned from the trident, so it seems reasonable to me that jaime would have still killed him. Do you have anything from the text on which you've based that thought? I don't say you're wrong! wherr i see another divergence would be if tywin had proceeded to strike at the city or not. im up in the air about that. on the one hand, he could have decide to sit peacfully at the rock, then returned to the red keep to declare that rheagar owed him for not siding with the rebels, or he might have still struck as part of a gambit to place his own family on the throne. with the kind of personality and thought processes we have seen in tywin so far, either seems feasible. LF isn't the only one to take advantage of chaos! Cheers!

Aerys= House Targaryen. Anything else is treason on the part of the Prince of Dragonstone. I'm sorry, I didn't understand the rest of your post. It's a very very hot afternoon here and my brain are probably simmering in my skull. And I've run out of ice-cubes for my iced nettle tea.