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Eltharion21

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  1. Eltharion21

    Stannis Baratheon Predictions

    I hope that he will live enough to bring some justice to Westeros, but it is more likely he will die before returning south. Though will it be in fight against the Others or against men I am not sure. What I expect in Twow is very dark Nightfort chapter, whether he is present or not, maybe even while under attack by Others. Though it is possible that even after his death , he will have some sort of impact on the establishing new regime in Westeros. For example his contract with Braavos signed in his own blood and power that resides there.
  2. Eltharion21

    [spoiler] Larys Strong

    I really can't figure him out, mostly because of claim that Daemon had ears on the small council, which casts doubt and him playing the sides when Aegon II is reinstated. "The prince still had friends in the low places of King’s Landing, and followers amongst the gold cloaks. Unbeknownst to King Aegon, the Hand, or the Queen Dowager, he had allies at court as well, even on the green council…" Though he was really efficient in aiding Green side in arranging escapes of royal family and possibly instigating various events. Though at the end he showed some sort of mettle with accepting his death , he could have easily escaped to Essos and continued plotting like some other did. I doubt he had killed his father and brother, Breakbones and Clubfoot are too much on the nose with association of Sandor and Gregor (edit: seeing from Wiki as Clubfoot is birth defect than probably the association doesn't hold) . My guess of culprit is Alys Rivers she had thing for fire.
  3. Eltharion21

    So what was Criston Cole's deal?

    There is art in F&B showing Rhaenyra with cuts on her wrist and on her thighs, though not all images are canon it leaves option how it would be possible to have those cuts. He also mentions her cuts not only in detail of her first kneeling ceremony, but on multiple occasions. There were many people present there to be so easily fabricated. "In the fullness of her victory, Rhaenyra Targaryen did not suspect how few days remained to her. Yet every time she sat the Iron Throne, its cruel blades drew fresh blood from her hands and arms and legs, a sign that all could read." Eustace for all its bias toward the Aegon II has some less damning reports about Rhaenyra probably trying to preserve Targaryen dynasty image or some sort of dignity. Aegon II didn’t sit much in the throne he was soon after coronation badly hurt, when reinstated he couldn't climb on it because of his injuries. That can also be interpreted as sort of sign, like Viserys cutting himself and being afraid to sit. Not sure about hots, but some kind of adoration existed certainly, that might have developed later with her growing up. He probably still saw her as little girl since he spent most of his time babysitting her. That would be kinda plausible if he was separated few years and arrived to see her grown up and attractive , but sitting all the time with little spoiled princess I doubt it would make him loose himself. Those two reports by Eustace ( Daemon seducing her ( with pretense of getting Cole for her in Mushroom addition), Arryk finding them together, Daemon was banished or ) 111 AC. Mushroom ( Rhaenyra trying to seduce Ser Cole, Ser Arryk finding her with Strong , Their „breakup“ 113 AC) seems to have events overlap, though it would be really funny that Ser Arryk stumbled two times on Princes’s disgrace. If anything major happened between her and her champion it was in 113AC not before. If King had any notion of their assumed liaison, Ser Cole would answer for breaking his vows , even more than Lucamore Strong did. The greens would probably exploit that if it even sliver of proof existed, prior to him changing his allegiance. Only Orwyle was on meeting.Though Eustace was freed after the Blacks have won and Orwyle was sentenced. Orwyle tries to paint himself in his confession as man of peace and supporter of Rhaenyra and give himself credit for what Beesbuy had said. Orwyle had no power to influence fate of Beesbury for good or ill. His claim that Beesbury was escorted to Black Cells where he died eventually, since the man was 80 year old, seems genuine. Killing lord of small council with everyone present is outrageous claim. That holds little truth on deeper inspection. We don’t have proof of Ser Cole killing Beesbury , I highly doubt that Lord Commander would do it in front of Queen, Hand and entire small council, without any reprimand and later listen to Hand's commands to get Rhaenyra’s supporters without violence. He might have told Aegon II his opinion of the consequence of not taking the throne, with evidence of Rhaenyra and Daemon killing people who doubted patrimony of her children, Daemons nature and her corruptibility that outcome is very possible . Ser Criston Cole spoke up. Should the princess reign, he reminded them, Jacaerys Velaryon would rule after her. “Seven save this realm if we seat a bastard on the Iron Throne.” He spoke of Rhaenyra’s wanton ways and the infamy of her husband. “They will turn the Red Keep into a brothel. No man’s daughter will be safe, nor any man’s wife. Even the boys…we know what Laenor was.” Neither Mushroom nor Eustace seem to be privy to what happened between the closed doors but usually use secondary sources and there many fallible reports in either of their writings. When looking novel that is written through disputing historical records of opposing sides in Civil War, I try to use deductive approach to look for reoccurring patterns in behavior, decision making or rational explanations if possible. If you doubt something painfully obvious like bastardy of Rhaenyra's first three children I would have made second thought before throwing stone. They did spend some time after her leaving to Driftmark and seem to be getting along l with each giving their favors to champions at the tourney. She left there around 113 and wedding was in 114 AC, her first child is born in waning days of 114 AC so there is time period in which they would begin their companionship and rumors true or false about them could arrive to Ser Cole since he still didn't join Alicent yet. In this specific case she trowed dirt on Ser Cole , not on her step-daughter. War has already started and both sides considered others traitors and rebels. ( murder of Lucerys and Blood&Cheese atrocity, banners were called and armies marched. Some of the first military actions have been done by Black supporters. (Blackwoods attacked Brackens, battles of Burning Mill and Stone Hedge happened, Daemon had taken Harenhall, and great number of lords started declaring for Rhaenyra in the Reach). Ser Cristons policy was steel fist instead of Otto's more diplomatic approach. Captured black supporters were given one last chance and those who refused made example for their defiance after having more than enough time to bend the knee. Oddly Lord Harte was one of those executed ,staunch supporter of Blacks. Entire Realm was notified of Aegon II ascending the throne, they were asked to swear oaths or be proclaimed traitors. Rosby, Stokeworth lords when offered last chance repented, and their lands were spared, their men joined Aegon’s army, Duskendale was taken by surprise, even then the garrison was given chance to bend the knee, its lord was executed since he had chance to do that earlier, city was sacked as punishment and harbor set afire probably because Velaryon’s wouldn’t use it since they had naval advantage. Rook’s Rest 800 men died in the battle against Rhaenys, 100 died when they had to take the Rook’s Rest and put its garrison to death. That seems as standard rule of engagement, castles that don’t yield suffer that fate so that other don’t continue resisting. Jaime threatening castles in Riverlands if they don’t yield similarly. Ser Arryk Cargyll had mission to slay Rhaenyra, putting an end to her rebellion at a stroke, even as revenge it is aimed to leader of blacks responsible for their crimes. Blood&Cheese is evil arbitrary act of retribution demanding “ son for a son“, that isn’t directed as justice to person responsible of crime or it's Superior, even ignoring it's excessive cruelty and murder of handmaids, threats for rape of child and premeditated torture of mother. Those all are certainly severe acts, but can't be considered crimes since from information we have are done by standard rules of warfare, and by authority of King. Aegon II actually was recognized as king by even Blacks after the war unlike the Princess.
  4. Eltharion21

    So what was Criston Cole's deal?

    What makes you think that other than Your preconceptions, I remember you claimed Eustace fabricated Rhaenyra being cut by the throne. It isn’t very plausible that 23 year old man get hots for the 7 year old girl, unless he has some issues like Daemon probably did, with evidence of preferring young girls „especial fondness for deflowering maidens“ . In contrast we have multiple reports of Rhaenyra being infatuated with her „white knight“ while Cole seems only doing his job. Eustace also paints Cole especially negatively during the Small council meting regarding Beesbury's death and also convincing Aegon II to claim the throne, along with reasons of contempt over Rhaenyra , and they collide with different sources about him. Gyldane writes his history 150 years later using those sources for which none was present at meeting. If anything existed between Rhaenyra and Ser Criston , it would be huge scandal , and there were many who would exploit that to their advantage with even bit of proof. He also wouldn't be promoted to Lord Commander if even whispers of that were heard. It is very possible that she did, considering she had taken Breakbones as companion quickly after the quarrel with her father about marriage and later Ser Cole, Harwin Strong wasn’t featured at all in any report before that spout. Eustace and Mushroom can be both wrong, it is certain that Ser Cole didn’t spoke about his reasons and his actions were used as inspiration for their theories . Do we have evidence of Rhaenyra telling anything about it to Mushroom? Rhaenyra seems as very entitled, spoiled, prone to rash and angry decisions, before and during the Dance both. I really don’t find the Mushrooms version so far fetched(or at least it is closer to the truth). When she goes to Driftmark to marry Laenor: "Not long thereafter, Rhaenyra set sail for Driftmark on the Sea Snake, accompanied by her handmaids (two of them the daughters of the Hand and sisters to Ser Harwin), the fool Mushroom, and her new champion, none other than Breakbones himself." Leanor Velaryon and Joffery Lonmouth also would be part of her clique. With his personal experience , ser Arryk spotting her with either Daemon or Breakbones or both, and rumors about them true or false, would certainly incense his antipathy. Alicent publicly saying. “Ser Criston protects the princess from her enemies, but who protects the princess from Ser Criston?” and later taking him as personal protector and giving him charge of training her own children speaks volume of that cynical claim. Before the Dance started the demand was that she accepts Aegon II as rightful king and remain as ruler of Dragonstone. We don’t see him asking immediately for her death only that She must not become the Queen. After the Blood&Cheese murders he tries to kill her at least two times. "The pretender princess had made use of stealth and treachery to kill Prince Jaehaerys, Cole said; let them do the same. “We will pay the princess back in her own bloody coin,” What murderous actions are those?
  5. Eltharion21

    So what was Criston Cole's deal?

    Text is deliberately written so either theory might be true or something in between. I also oddly find his story most plausible. There is no strong evidence of Ser Criston have any relationship with Rhaenyra unlike with Deamon or Breakbones. Only thing that people use to tie them together is his hatred of princess and her court. He certainly despised her, probably because he saw firsthand her true nature in attempts to use him as plaything and probably offering him same role Harwin Strong would have in future. We also don't know what has been actually said in their "breakup" , insults or threats of retribution when Rhaenyra gets the crown. His disdain later when she went to Driftmark may have been increased by rumors true or false about depravity involving her court. Though his hatred later when Dance starts is result of murderous actions of opposing side.
  6. Eltharion21

    The Blacks or the Greens?

    For man to rule others , he should rule himself, people like Viserys or Robert are some examples of lack of that ability. Wiser kings will enforce their will, law and stability through mechanisms that will enforce continuation for some time after their deaths. In both cases realm fell apart moments after their deaths. Fathers quite often favor one side, is present even today with inheriting of companies or even property to preserve legacy and not split it though it maybe isn't always just. It is large space between giving one side advantage to enforce his will and committing kinslaying. Though in my opinion Daemon deserved to be killed after making so many impudent affronts toward the King. Maybe we will get his accomplishments in next revision of the story so that you can be right, or maybe it is better we get F&B2, Dunk and Egg or dare I say TWOW. Prosperity of the realm in my opinion is more thank to Jaeharys wise rule, he did surround himself with competent people who were in small council , Otto Hightower was hand for most of his reign, Tyland showed that also, maybe Corlys though Daemon, Aegon II and Rhaenyra show lack of that trait. His failures usually are from his overriding the advice of those more competent. If his successor or its representatives were present in Kings Landing is the least of many ways to do it. Is murder the only way you can think of solving issues. We can’t be sure what would have happened if Aegon killed Maegor considering things didn’t go immediately to manure moment he died, but after few years. Some of Maegors actions actually strengthened Targaryen position in the realm. It is more fault of Aenys’s weakness or even Visenya could have done maybe more regarding Maegor, she had second most powerful dragon. Especially since they live in uncertain world , there should be more thought given to the rule of Kingdom, using experiences of past rulers. Viserys could have married Velaryons himself instead and later marry his heir someone close to that House ( even Celtigar). Keeping power in the hands of one branch. But he married for love or lust in powerful house and formed separate branch, while he married heir to other strong house. Targaryens base their power in dragons and fealty of Lords, if the dragons are spread too much among the houses , fealty of Lords will not hold too long, not even standing army could counter that , so policy of Dragon inheritance and use would be key. It is possible that different players and especially Essosi when seen Targaryens dragon grow in number were afraid of new Valyria and decided to nudge Targaryens to self destruction a bit, through use of intrigue and assassination. I could describe but I feel it would be wast of time in this thread especially. You overestimate power of Ser Criston Cole. If you want to remove Kingsguard who you consider destabilizing factor, just send him on some quest on the end of the world, Asshai, Valyria or even Dorne could do like Willam the Wasp’s quest, Swann or Oakheart's. There is also publicly proclaimed and written will, when they wanted to influence public in Westeros , earlier kings invented royal processions, it would be great when realm was already peaceful and prosperous to visit Lords with his heir or send only his heir with its dragon. There remained lot of doubt , many people were uncertain who should rule considering things changed a lot since more than 20 years he asked Lords to swear fealty to her. Regarding Your philosophy of unquestionably adhering to will of KIng: Kings are also men ,and all men are fallible. If men follow King's wishes even if they would bring ruin to them, that isn't kingdom of men but of Lemmings. Outbreaks of both Civil wars share some similarities, mostly incompetence of both Kings. Robert was great warrior but awful king. Robert had put Lord Eddard Stark as regent until his heir is of age, he tried to remedy some of mess while dying though it was too late. If realm falls apart moments after the King dies lot of it has to do with actions or lack of them by the dead King. Tywin and Stannis both were gathering soldiers even while he was hunting boars. Those weren’t Roberts children, Stannis and Renly could have made a deal but it came to battle in which they both planed to kill each other. Having half functioning brain would do as evident from the text: Daemon was problem until he died, Your claim has no evidence in his reported actions and atrocities committed or proposed during the war. Odd behavior with Nettles and his last stand could be also his growing tired of leading his life , like the many things he got bored of. That war was foolishness and the very definition of failure. They made enemies and united Triarchy, then Triarchy was in war against divided part of Westeros , destroying part of its power. Iron Throne still doesn't control Stepstones, it was stupid private war. Targaryens could have sent more dragons and created small kingdoms for their squabbling. family instead eventually imploding and loosing main source of their power.
  7. Eltharion21

    Season 8 Official Trailer

    There is reddit thread with screen captures , by using photoshop to brighten images some details could be seen for example (different users found that and posted images I only brightened them with allowance of Lord of Light :P) https://imgur.com/a/JzQGHrq#rRx7Klh
  8. Eltharion21

    The Blacks or the Greens?

    Please pardon me if I don't shed a tear for troubles of Viserys, he was the King at apex of Targaryen power in Westeros, he had all the wealth and every boon that goes with being the King. But he also had duty to his Kingdom, In his actions that tried to selfishly please everybody he sentenced realm, people, and some of his kin to suffering. Some people claim that love is death of duty, I agree in part , king needs to make hard decisions if it is for the good of his Realm. Viserys in my opinion was very bad king that was fortunate to come after the long and successful rule of Jaeharys , he also died before the Dance though realm was fractured only days after his death. He gets little deserved flak for it ( at least in Asoiaf world). His "achievement" is even worse since from prosperity to Dying of dragons only two years passes, not saying that sides involved aren't responsible only that he could have done lot more to prevent feud. He could have empowered either faction to have overwhelming control over leverages of power , that are concentrated in Kings Landing mostly but also depending of Lord support. He could have made additional proclamations, write will, royal processions or public swearing of oaths , since old was 20 something years before and there were certainly doubts about succession , even Black side tends to treat Rhaenyra's claim as exception and not the rule. Viserys could have removed destabilizing people like Daemon (enforcing existing banishment, and not allowing marriage with Rhaenyra especially since he had many strikes against Viserys authority , War in Stepstones was act of foolishness that Viserys had part of, it is one of bigger blunders that came later to prominence also ). He didn't have to reinstate Otto Hightower after he had fired him for demanding Aegon to be crowned. I don't want to go in too much in the rule of future and past Kings or Queens, every ruler should be good judge of character especially of his children or brother and make decisions correspondingly, we see result in his case regardless if we favor Black, Green or neither.
  9. Eltharion21

    The Blacks or the Greens?

    I agree with You, Viserys empowered opposing factions with his choices and not making hard decisions regarding his family, while power was concentrated in his person. That caused the resulting war soon after his death. Even in 114 AC when tournament in honor of wedding of Laeonor and Rhaenyra , when Ser Joffrey Lonmouth dies after duel with Ser Cole. We have this written: "King Viserys was most wroth as well; a joyous celebration had become the occasion of grief and recrimination. It was said that Queen Alicent did not share his displeasure, however; soon after, she asked that Ser Criston Cole be made her personal protector. The coolness between the king’s wife and the king’s daughter was plain for all to see; even envoys from the Free Cities made note of it in letters sent back to Pentos, Braavos, and Old Volantis." That is something way much above wearing different dresses, factionalism, or dislike , especially when various foreign envoys find it notable and it is 15 years even before war would start.
  10. Eltharion21

    Poll: Is Varys a Woman?

    Maybe he used Dwight Schrute technique to avoid detection. video link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHTbHd72Ur0 My answer is also No.
  11. Eltharion21

    The Blacks or the Greens?

    That statement is dubious at best considering both sides had to send emissaries to get support of North, Vale, Iron Islands, Stormlands and Riverlands? Greens had Oldtown and not all of Reach, Kings Landing infrastructure at least lawful part, though not all of Crownlands, Westerlands were only entire region with them. Blacks had Velaryon fleet, Daemons subversive elements in Kings Landing, much more dragons. That is only start, throughout most of the actual conflict Blacks had greater advantage (North ,Vale, Riverlands,Iron Islands,Parts of Crownlands and Reach, dragons, Velaryon fleet and Baratheons uselessness can be added to the list). Viserys was king, but what kings want is also limited by law, customs and decisions of Great Council. Rhaenyra became traitor when she had bastard children and decided to make them heirs to the throne. That analogy doesn't apply since they both had claim of the "stolen" thing. He was kin slayer though she had deserved the sentence. Rhaenyra caused the death of her siblings indirectly or even directly depending of the sources. She explicitly stated that she planed to kill Aegon, Aemond and Daeron I don’t doubt same would be for Maelor and Jaehaera though . Alicent wasn’t a threat to her succession , her only claim derived from children by Viserys she was left alive to be tormented, Rhaenyra had to have some fun at least. Did Otto Higtower had trial and many others? You Reap What You Sow. Her death has interesting irony: Realm's Delight ends like a delightful bite for dragon. In the story about Princess and the Queen at the end dragon eats the princess. Shepherd fought against Targaryens not against blacks, „enemy of my foe is my friend as long he doesn’t attack me or source of my power“. Shepherd was asked to confess his treason and vile acts , he refused to repent his crimes and treason, he also had rallied his supporters against the Baratheon army, all multiple occasions of treason. I don’t doubt those followers who remained were most zealous, aggressive or most foolish and not tame as lambs. They slaughtered men and dragons in orgy of bloody carnage. If not dealt with it would cause further woes of Kings Landing , considering Shepherd reborn appeared some time later with more fervid supported existing he would case mayhem. They deserved punishment. It was probably meant to be closest to the death by dragon for their crime. Rhaenyra lost largest amount of dragons, so they had to make due. To use analogue of "Ill Tempered Mutated Sea Bass with Laser beams attached to their heads". In declaring innocence of those , you ignore the crimes they have committed, to brave storming the Dragonpit and later creating sort of rebellion, and confronting army of the ruler, are all treasonous acts. Trystane had 16 years he was adult, unlike Gaemon who wasn’t sentenced to death. Trystane supporters were pardoned before the king arrived. There are coups and coups. Coronation of Aegon had to do with many things Succession customs, Great Council of 101 ac, Rhaenyra’s high treason with bastard children, threat on lives of green members by Deamon, tyrannical , corruptible and paranoid characteristics of Rhaenyra and her Consort of future King. If not Aegon II didn't accept crown, new Maegor the Cruel would be ruling the realm that was evident to everyone but king Viserys who was but a flawed man. That is why you shouldn’t have only one man decide the fate of everyone. Daenara was orphaned ward of Alyn and Baela, they were closest thing to her parents now. Unwin Peake hasn’t been sentenced for that crime so there wasn’t evidence for his doing either, though he may have tried to exploit the situation , it was done too competently for his record. No he would tell everyone that "I am planing to kill the freaking Queen" and it would be written in records by the maesters under the thumb of winning Black regime , seriously. Unwin Peake may have tried but he had so many failures and blunders, that act of murder of Queen just doesn’t have his signature. Velaryons are great house at the time, there are many cousins, some lost their tongues for saying Strongs were bastards some even tried to kill him. Alyn was her daddy now. They had fleet to parry the might of Ironborn there wasn't a shortage of trueborn Velaryons. Do you seriously think that through Baela ( female) and her child by recently recognized bastard of Snake and Mouse will be named king without issue, it is more likely there would be new divisions in the realm and civil war. I am not saying that he wanted to be King, just that he wanted to preserve his hold of House Velaryon and his fleets, maybe influence stability by eradicating last remnant of the Greens. Not everything needs to happen overnight. It is possible though the records we are reading are written after the events, though not one maester acknowledges the fact. He is proven kinslayer and father of future kings , someone would think his bloodline is cursed. Those things remain like mark on people and lineage especially if written by Maesters. There are example in French history of belief that French royalty was cursed for killing of Templars. It is easier to judge Varys actions than those of Larys, since we have more information, F&B is more like reading of Roberts Rebellion from historical records, while we later have true revelations about many characters , their deeds and motivations. Thing is that we have contradicting information about his change of allegiance , and without true reason I can’t vilify him, many knights men and lords were forced to choose who to follow. You deny the king for actions that are successful or considered righteous when not present but berate him for injustices or failures when he also isn’t present. In previous discussions you tend to do the same with representing characters like the two Betrayers entirely green or Tyland Lannister not member of green, with all other distorted view it makes Your claims extremely fallible. He had to try, he had no other option, with loosing everything to his knowledge. Dragonstone was surrounded by Velaryon fleet, with black armies massing, He would have used other method to kill smaller Dragon, though he would had to support attack with the Sunfyre. You seriously claim that he would remain hiding on Dragonstone drinking in the tavern now that is silly. Do the math of murder and people dead under each people effective government of Kings Landing and locations or events under their direct influence.There should be far better research for such daring claim. I replied to the topic , in the style that Original Poster had done specifying my reasoning but not bothering him for expressing opposite views. We had plenty of debates regarding the topics and our arguments repeat over the different topics and derail them. I am prepared to occasionally clarify my opinion or offer additional arguments , but not always , especially not with one poster with record of almost 20.000 posts ( that is almost 3x “War and Peace”) who clearly has more than enough time to overwhelm different views of the Novels by sheer repetitiveness and represent his own views as actual version of events. To quote show Renly; “I’d have better luck debating the wind.”
  12. Eltharion21

    The Blacks or the Greens?

    Blacks had more dragons, which can’t be underestimated for starters, although they misused them. Naval supremacy was also overwhelming even after war ended. "Those who sat at the black council counted themselves loyalists, but knew full well that King Aegon II would name them traitors. Each had already received a summons from King’s Landing, demanding they present themselves at the Red Keep to swear oaths of loyalty to the new king. All their hosts combined could not match the power the Hightowers alone could field. Aegon’s greens enjoyed other advantages as well. Oldtown, King’s Landing, and Lannisport were the largest and richest cities in the realm; all three were held by greens. Every visible symbol of legitimacy belonged to Aegon. He sat the Iron Throne. He lived in the Red Keep. He wore the Conqueror’s crown, wielded the Conqueror’s sword, and had been anointed by a septon of the Faith before the eyes of tens of thousands. Grand Maester Orwyle sat in his councils, and the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard had placed the crown upon his princely head. And he was male, which in the eyes of many made him the rightful king, his half-sister the usurper." Riches of Aegon II supporters comes little in term of buying sell swords considering the great advantage in that field, Hightowers do not represent entirety of Reach with many Houses being on side of blacks ,while Tyrells being neutral, unlike North, Vale and most of Riverlands who supported blacks. Baratheon only join at the end, even if they would have beaten Riverlands army they would be overwhelmed by Vale and North. Many of other things mentioned above prove to be of much less importance than alliance with the Great Lords which is major contribution to victory. Aegon Ii executed Rhaenyra for crimes of high treason since the war started he considered himself as rightful King and she was rebel or traitor. He burned Shepherd and 240 of his most zealous supporters for crime of murdering men and dragons of his House. Rhaenyra didn’t do many things that she should have. It takes two for tango. Coup started long ago with Daemon seducing his 14 year old niece, later marrying her after many suspicious deaths without consent of king , actually forming Black alliance 10 years before Viserys's death, even though she was named against the ruling of Great council and practice of succession specifically so he wouldn’t be king. His decisions in multiple occasion influenced destabilization and increased volatility of actions If you don’t like something it doesn’t make it silly. Little mentioned House Harte and Ser Denys were mentioned in hiring faceless men in Bravos to kill rival in Kings Landing prior to death of Queen Jaehaera. Hazel Harte is mother of Daenara Velaryon ward of house Velaryon at that time, House who had tried since time of Great Council of 101 ac to get closer to the power. Unwin Peake had no chance in marrying his daughter to Aegon II, he brought her rather late to court if he planned the murder , which he could have done any time . He was green supporter and great Lords of Black : Arryn, Tully and Stark among others sent their messages warning him against it. Alyn was recently acknowledged bastard in a House that had many woes regarding bastards in which branch of Vaemond Velaryon grandfather of Daenara suffered a lot. Some members even tried to kill him so his situation as ruler of the house wasn't certain at all and he certainly wanted to keep his fleets. He might have made deal to support that part of Velaryons in their bid to the throne while they acknowledge his rule over House Velaryon. Alyn found about Viserys after the death of Queen Jaehaera Aegon and Daenara were married in 133AC he was back in 134 AC, why would he kill Viserys he was second born, and better that he get him home and get hero points and have additional ally than Lyseni trying to make deal with someone else. The numbers with losses by the Regions/houses doesn't add up, Riverlands lose 8000 – 12000 men in two battles alone, not counting other minor engagements, we have no such reports of such huge losses of other side especially Reach or Westerlands, them primarily participating in most battles is disbelieving. If the Greens in fact had much advantage in numbers at start of war records of their losses and estimates of manpower of regions in Asoiaf make their involvement very implausible when other houses give up the war with far fewer losses. Aemond killed with Dragon , Daemon with words to assassins, What about Jahearea and Daemon? Daemon actually killed Aemond with his own hand so he is double kin-slayer. Well I am not sure what is likable in Varys yet you wear his name and face, If any half decent person was ruling his and Littlefinger's head would be first to roll. Versions about Cole vary and that is only one of them. Though what is undoubtable is that he was great warrior beating Brokenbones, Lonmouth and Daemon among some. His plan was Ambush at Rooks Rest where he was bait along with his men, he fought on ground until bitter end for his king. Roxton killed Ulf the Betrayer knowing he would face 10 other men that moment makes me like him a bit. Strong I admire for his ability as master of whisperers not for his morality though he is intriguing as character and in his final moment he showed some mettle. Borros has done will of Aegon II , arrested various traitors and they waited Kings justice which was appropriate to the crime. He had part in judging those accused of treason and murder, though lot were pardoned beforehand. Aegon II faced Rhaenys at Rooks rest , got burned and armor fused but Red Queen was dead. He mounted his dragon again to take Dragonstone and there was fight with Baela and her dragon, he won again. He fought and would fought regardless, because he would loose everything if he didn’t , if he knew there were some defenses he would arrived better prepared. Aegon II is known as Usurper by some , Rhaenyra as Maegor’s Teats , she and her short and bloody rule are one of biggest reasons why there is reinforced notion that women aren’t illegible to succeed later in Westeros. If you failed to notice part in my post I said that I don't plan to argue about my opinions here , mostly that I don't have time as some people to engage in debates constantly, lets please don't continue to derail this thread also.
  13. Eltharion21

    The Blacks or the Greens?

    First I want to say I don’t intend to have debate about my opinions of the Factions, mostly because the subject is too wide to do it in this thread (especially not with Master of Wind) . If another more focused topic arise I would join if people don’t mind to say my view of the matter. Little joke first : It is so Black in this thread, I fell like stumbling in Goth gathering. Before F&B I would say neither, but now with numerous comments that represent Blacks as heroes by many fans, it makes me look text more critically looking for patterns and repeating behavior of characters. I find Greens lesser evil of the two, and enjoy their small victories more when reading about the Dying of the Dragons. For every supposed scheme and villainous action of the Greens , Black leadership manages to out do them in sheer evil of actions and idiocy. Greens seem more as underdog throughout the war and biggest hits against opposing side are done by non conventional means, it makes the story more refreshing if not absolutely satisfying. Green Houses aren't my favorite in time of Asoiaf except Baratheons though they are hardly any benefit to the cause of Greens when it was needed. Lannisters who I am not fan of in Asoiaf actually commit the most in the Green cause and I appreciate them more now.Though what failings the Green have doesn't make me like Blacks much. Though I try to evaluate people and Houses by their actions in this story not in the future. Black were so capable that they managed to win both Greens and themselves in the war. Regarding characters and some Houses: Aegon II was crappy leader but Rhaenyra outmatched him in every turn in cruelty, incompetence, paranoia and what not. Daemon who many loud as hero , has ordered one of the most evil acts in the series, he constantly preyed on weaker and young ,his path strewn with abuse and murder. His constant collusion with criminal scum and corruption of every institution also is reason for me despising him. He could have achieved great things with his heritage and Dragon but due his capricious nature everything he ever done turns to crap. He was one of the main catalyst and almost ruin of the Dynasty. Velaryons are mostly represented as virtuous in the story, I appreciate Addam , and think Rhaenys would be decent Queen. Though behind the nice facade hides rotten mold, after all Corlys ever ambitious poisoned the King he swore oath to and made peace with marriage ,and some time later princess Jaehaera mysteriously dies and Velaryon ward marries to the throne. They use intrigue as much as Hightowers though they are glorified and other are berated for same . They also ultimately and deservedly become minor house , possibly by their long term attempts to play the Game. Blacks also manage to loose from Kings Landing rabble also getting entirety of Queensguard and Goldcloaks unceremoniously killed, which isn't big loss , but oh the death of dragons is biggest reason why I detest the Blacks. Riverlands is strangely participating in many of the battles, while managing to win some but despite heavy losses which other opposing Houses suffered in similar or less numbers, they still manage to field armies and influence earlier end to war , let alone that warfare in some places is described as Vietnam, which I find rather implausible. Riverlanders especially Muppets and Crash Bandicoot as many Blackwoods, sound mostly like fan service, especially the tone from extremely bitter becomes retching sweet in parts of the Hour of the Wolf and when marriages stop the continuation of war. That is all even when the Novel features non omnipotent view but uses various historical sources , that usually favor the wining side, for example in the text how many times is Aemond called kinslayer and how many times Daemon. I also dread to imagine how would potential TV series look like using template of Season 5 HBO Animated Feature. With omission of whole prelude to war and various schemes of Black supporters, showing events from mostly sources that favor the Blacks, Rhaenyra's all children having Valyrian look ( maybe their description wasn't known at the time) and herself not represented as stout or thick of waist unlike of strangely rather correct depiction of Queen Helaena , though that version would unlike differences in the show probably be celebrated by most of the fans. Question of legitimacy is never easy. How did Viserys inherit, how did Jaeharys, Maegor, Aenys, Aegon the Dragon. Is there a written law, or are there customs and efforts of better kings then Viserys to unite realm and have the subjects say about the matter. Though he was proclaimed by the will of Great Council , King decides to counter that decision so that his brother wouldn’t inherit (for obvious reasons) so he proclaims his daughter the heir, and to strengthen it makes lords swear to her. His daughter and same brother marry later without his consent and he does nothing about it , which makes his fumbling the succession one of the biggest blunders in the history of Westeros. “How can we win, when fools can be kings” Should people of Westeros be playthings of fickle Kings who hand their realm in the hands of Tyrants, they have enough to contend with bidding of Gods, so that incompetent Kings words would be holy word and bring ruin. If people leave everything to the whim of one man not limited with other forms of government or rules , You get Tyranny which I am always against of. Daeron the Daring, Ser Criston Cole, Sunfyre the Golden, Tyland Lannister, Larys Strong, Marston Waters, Ser John Roxton the Bold all I find likable to certain extent due to their feats mostly. I am not fan of Aemond especially, I think that mostly his blunders caused the downfall of Greens. But Aegon II for all misgivings had mounted his dragon in battle twice risking his life even after being burned and shown some mettle at least, he also has shown to be less cruel then his half sister, he didn’t make high treason by trying to put his bastard children as heirs to the Iron Throne , he even did clean up the mess Rhaenyra had left when she fled the Kings Landing.
  14. Eltharion21

    Last One Standing

    Bran , though it would be kinda of cheating with second life in Wolf, Man or maybe even Dragon.
  15. Eltharion21

    Let's suppose...

    One odd feature in bloodline is possible but four or five on three children supposedly fathered by same man, who share little features of either parent is truly amazing "coincidence" unless it isn't. Which one of those had brown hair, brown eyes, pug nose, and was large, or we should look for one trait only so that we compare and find similarities. Though lusty feature is interesting it seems that it goes in family , so Rhaenyra and Aegon II both shared it. They had 13 children, how many of them were brown haired, mostly if any had minor differences in usual Targaryen looks they would be described like with Alyssa. What is odd that three children absolutely look non Valyrian and two with different father with similar Valyrian genes look Valyrian. Laenor and Rhaenyra had also those genes but still out of 3 children all had very specific non Valyrian appearance. Daeron II had already stigma at the time being named bastard of Aemon the Dragonknight, his mother certainly had Targaryen looks. If he had vastly different look like Rhaenyras children then it would have much more influence on Blackfyre rebellion. Usually when appearance is described with so many characters it would need to have some importance to the plot. If not stated then most likely Targaryen had usual appearance of : "The typical Targaryen features remind strongly of the typical Valyrian features: pale skin, silver, platinum, or gold hair and eyes in a variety of shades of purple, or light blue". Alyssa Targaryen had these features: " Long-faced and skinny. She had dirty blond tangled hair, without a trace of silver. She had mismatched eyes, one violet, the other green. She had big ears and a lopsided smile". Her look with minor quirks certainly pass as Targaryen and her children also have Valyrian looks. Her mother is described as : " Alysanne was described as "pretty", but seldom as "beautiful" She had blue eyes and honey-colored curls". If you find any person in Rhaenyra's line that has features in question besides three firstborn children in sequence, considering that those genes seem to be rather dominant, than your theory that Laenor is father would have some plausibility. Insult or not, if it has no basis in truth, than it wouldn't cause such harsh reaction both from Lucerys or his mother or later Viserys for that matter when he took out tongues of those claiming bastardy in his grandchildren. “When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.” .
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