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Eltharion21

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  1. Maybe, but Napoleon isn't half a man Stannis is , and yes it's a height joke.
  2. Targaryens could have taken the Dorne at their pinnacle of power before the Dance, though they turned on themselves maybe through influence of outside factor as many noted foreign dignitaries during perceived New Valyria forming in Westeros and discord between two factions. Seems like Martin was mostly inspired with Vietnam when describing guerrilla tactics, though important factor for that conflict or Afghanistan were supports of other major powers, China or US funding Taliban insurrection. Most important factor like recently with Isis which was on the roll until their opponents started targeting their finances, destroying fuel convoys. To me it points that Cicero's saying is still very much on the point: The sinews of war, unlimited money.
  3. I feel those two capture the best "human heart in conflict with itself" which is Martin quotes as something he strives for in his writing. Jaime gets also plus points because he reminds me of Maedhros a bit.
  4. I said smart. Her brother had true claim to the throne, terms were generous. Tell that to other rulers that wanted to do whatever. Sic semper tyrannis. Yes he was King to Rhaenyra as six-month-Queen, same as King Robert and Queen Cersei, they gain with their title, certain gravitas, and access to leverages of power. He gave councilors to Rhaenyra like Mysaria and Largent, gave advice's of letting loose Red Kraken and betrayers on the realm, and ordered kinslaying of little children and torment of their mother without any repercussions by his superiors, if he had them at the time. Jaehaerys by summoning Great Council and giving all lords in land a say about succession, in fact created great opportunity for secure succession and prevention of disputes. What are achievements like Declarations of Independence, Constitution or Magna Carta if not political documents that represent advancement in liberties made by consensus of wielders of power or representatives of ruling classes. King's aren't gods, if they gain power through their military might, dragons or political power alone and not supported also from laws and traditions, they should beware for it is a fickle thing and would easily bring disintegration of realm ( look at Rome). In this case both sides had dragons and armies and eventually ruined Targaryen Dynasty, which never really recovered. Viserys didn't curb Daemon's influence who did what he wanted, he exiled him for seducing his under-age daughter and heir yet he went to Driftmark and married Laena Velaryon, breaking the exile supported by Seasnake. Various people stopping his rising in position had suspicious deaths. Rhea Royce, Lyonel and Harwin Strong, betrothed of Leana Velaryon, Laenor Velaryon, which was never investigated. Other side of family was sensibly in fear of what would happen when Viserys I would die and lord fleabottom as Rhaenyra's consort would be in high position in realm. Dislike between branches, doubtful parentage of Rhaenyra's heirs would make easy for anyone to exploit discord and eliminate Hightower branch one by one if they submitted under any pretense.
  5. Jaehaerys I also ceded his authority for all ( Everyone) Lords of Westeros to come in Harenall amd vote on succession, which they did in overwhelming majority for Viserys as son of Baelon ( second son of Jaehaerys). From that any smart ruler would extrapolate laws which would enable more secure succession in future. Rhaenyra would keep Dragonstone in deal offered by Aegon II, so it isn't true that her whole inheritance would be taken. Rhaenyra also tried to pass her bastard children as heirs of the Iron Throne which is high treason. Viserys made Rhaenyra his heir specifically so that Daemon Targaryen wouldn't take the throne, since he was heir presumptive before Otto Hightower suggested Rhaenyra. They ultimately married without king's consent. Viserys I also made Lords swear allegiance to his daughter once , 23 years before the war started, some lords didn't swear the oath like Tyland Lannister and some weren't even born like Cregan Stark. When each side had to ask for allegiance with dragonriders it makes oath swearing moot. Kings should be subject to limitations of justice, reason or sanity, when Old King and entire realm choose on a way which Viserys I became king , who is he to change it without as strong consensus, especially since he himself doesn't uphold his own decisions.
  6. He is actually really fair in his judgment of her: Great Council of 101 Ac decision is paramount, which was confirmed after the end of dance.
  7. As others have said he flirts with magic, drinks shade of evening, visits possibly Valyria which all could take toil on persons sanity, culture and upbringing and occupation as pirate would make him also more cruel. Though most of it is probably his character from beginning, he may have been a damaged Warg, who failed Bloodraven, judging him a bad seed and dreams in his youth affected him so that he continues chasing empowerment offered through them. In vision we see many dreamers don't succeed:
  8. He choose allegiance toward his older brother, his house and his blood, making him a rebel and traitor from Aerys perspective, from rebel perspective Aerys II was a mad tyrant and his son kidnapper. All rebels swore oath to Robert and crowned him king, and defeated had to swear same oath, High Septon and other various institutions had recognized him as their king and Baratheon dynasty. Daenerys for her opinion to be taken in account , would need to win the war, make lords paramount swear her fealty and stay alive, we shall see how far she makes it. Renly was confronted with information in parley with Stannis, he got his chance to accept his brothers offer and join in war against Lannisters, most people who intimately knew Robert and his wife, his children and bastards, didn't take long to realize truth of those claims : Tyrion, Kevan, Varys, Littlefinger. Renly certainly realized truth in that revelation, if he even didn't hear it before. He deliberately choose to do battle and kill his older brother using overwhelmingly numerous army, which he failed to do. Renlys supporters are in Stannis fair opinion have least justification for their actions: "These pardoned lords would do well to reflect on that. Good men and true will fight for Joffrey, wrongly believing him the true king. A northman might even say the same of Robb Stark. But these lords who flocked to my brother's banners knew him for a usurper. They turned their backs on their rightful king for no better reason than dreams of power and glory, and I have marked them for what they are. Pardoned them, yes. Forgiven. But not forgotten." He could have won, though Varys would certainly try to murder him, like he played Tyrion in killing Tywin, if he survived attack by Shadow Assassin since united Westeros doesn't go with his plans. Most of the funds spent during Summer and Autumn would be better used to prepare for Winter: Littlefinger is currently stockpiling food in Vale, he knows it will be worth more than all the jewels soon. Robert peaked when he won the throne, it was downhill from there, yet there still remained glimmer of a great man, especially on his dying bed. He was feeling Eddard out so to speak, he probably knew that Jon who was behind idea of Lannister alliance and Stannis who he considered too rigid wouldn't support that idea. Jon Arryn was poisoned by Lysa and Littlefinger but quote from wiki shows that Cersei might had finished him off through Pycelle: I consider that your idea about "Renly attempting to save Robert" is fallacious at best and fabrication at worst. If he didn't knew about incest or Cersei trying to kill Jon Arryn or Robert, then why did he plan to take hostages of Robert's children while still alive. He was there during the hunt when Lannister squires gave him wine and he drunkenly killed the Boar, that was perfect chance to save him. What makes me consider more Stannis a right man for the throne is that both Varys and Littlefinger who have their own agenda are against him. Renly is also Littlefingers second choice after Eddard bending the knee to Joffrey. Declaring yourself for a king isn't "calling a shotgun", either you have claim and it is true or you don't. Many examples including Ironborn and Torgon Greyiron who wasn't present at Kingsmoot, yet his claim proved valid even after Urrathon IV Goodbrother had became king prove that . Again they had met on parley in front of Storm's End, it was last chance for them to ally, which unfortunately they didn't. It is general rule of tradition in Westeros that oldest son inherits all, and seconds sons must find their own wealth, probably a way of strengthening houses that Martin had taken from real world history. Stannis gave his allegiance to Robert his older brother over allegiance to Targaryen King, he feels that Renly owes him the same when Robert's legal children aren't his. He killed Renly with means at his disposal, is it cowardly compared to Renly using 4:1 advantage in men to kill his older brother? Stannis considers himself true king, every castle and lord owes him allegiance, he knows Lords won't join him over Renly as he is more popular , so he challenges him to a battle by attacking Storm's End. Renly wasn't at Storm's End when Stannis besieged it , he was in Reach, he could had simply ignored Stannis until he had taken King's Landing , he had more than enough force to do that and avenge Robert if he couldn't save him, yet he wanted to deal with Baratheon's first. Renly declaring himself a king over Stannis is technically "first punch". Though actual blows hadn't come until after the negotiation where Catelyn was present, they were threatening each other until that. I really don't know what last sentence means if anything.
  9. * I am not sure how that all is relevant to the fact they are currently legal dynasty in Westeros, but I'll play along. Robert Baratheon didn't alone rebel, Aerys II demanded head of wards Eddard Stark and Robert from Jon Arryn, after he murdered Rickard and Brandon Stark and heir of Jon Arryn. They rebelled along with Hoster Tully which makes it rebellion of 4 lords paramount in start, eventually joined with Westerlands, with Dorne and Reach on side of Targaryens and Iron Islands neutral. They choose Robert to be leader of rebels, with his closer familial ties out of rebel leaders as means of continuation of civil order and appeasing some Targaryen loyalists. * Robert was negligent probably due depression, which allowed many sycophants or subversive elements to gain power in King's Landing. I am not sure how they managed to in-debt throne so fast, mostly to Braavos, House Lannister and Faith. Especially if Littlefinger was Master of Coin for several years and Robert was king for 14 years. Though take note that it isn't kingdom that is bankrupt, there are still funds and resources in various regions of Westeros, that is until it is spent in War of the five kings, Targaryen invasions from Essos, Ironborn raids or Winter. Renly also doesn't seem like very economical potential ruler, spending money on lavish parties, tourneys and luxury. * Renly wanted to replace Lannister's with Tyrells, not make essential changes or clear corruption from the capitol. If he wanted to save Robert he has done poor job, even worse than other people accused for it like Eddard, Jon or Stannis, because he was always present in court and even the day he was gored by boar. Main thing is Robert himself was his worst enemy, and if people don't want to help themselves no one can. Stannis had brought his information to Jon Arryn, when he was murdered and Robert found nothing suspicious and decided to go on tour to North , he could only leave pit of vipers that is King's Landing and prepare for what was to come. He also did sent letter to every part of the Realm, from Arbor to the Wall where he told about his claim and bastardy of false Baratheon's. He offered Renly pardon and naming him heir until and if he get's son. Even with information and offer on the table, Renly decides to ignore it and kill his brother in battle.
  10. No where is stated that Targaryen dynasty is rightful either, they had conquered Westeros with Fire & Blood . Ruled with threats of dragons and murder, and brought some prosperity diminished by devastation, reaching peak of power during rule of Viserys I and declining steadily relying mostly on support of Lords, until they were deposed in rebellion supported by 5 of the 7 kingdoms. Rebels chose reform, rather than full revolution and change of political order, to appease some of defeated Targaryen supporters which was in theory better for stability. I believe tv show was on point in lore videos explaining Stannis decision to join Robert in rebellion: Regarding Rebellion this great scene from Tv series Shogun tells of mitigating circumstances comparable to Westeros. From 1:54:21 to 1:55:58
  11. Yes then it was too late already, it could be prevented for a generation or two by marrying Aegon and Rhaenyra or excessive support to either, by even disinheriting one publicly. Though Targaryen civil war was inevitable because increase of dragons , longer life than their rider, possibility of people like Aemond, Daemon, Maegor inheriting powerful dragons and lack of policy, rules or direction to their use ( expansion to East, Dorne or replacing problematic lords like Ironborn with Targaryen nobles) Peace offering and allowing her half-brothers to take black is something that besides Alicent, Corlys proposed to Rhaenyra which she refused supported by Daemon.
  12. No their dynasty was deposed because of crimes of her father and brother. Lords rebeled, won civil war and made feudal contract with new King Robert Baratheon, currently his is the legal dynasty.
  13. Lot of Tv show fans saw Daenerys as symbol of modern racial injustice emancipation, Tv show writers have given her "Breaking the Wheel" speech, presumably intent on dissolving feudal system, which had no sense especially in her final dialogue with Jon Snow. Her invasion of Westeros during season 6 was peak of popularity, yet they ignored consequences of her actions in leaving Meeren to sell-sword Daario or having invasion army made of Dothraki, Unsulied, Ironborn and Dornish. I try not to hate either character, Daenerys or Jon Snow have both potential to do good and bad things, though I don't consider them solution to every problem or main characters, but important parts of the song.
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