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  1. Eltharion21

    ASOIAF characters + Greek Mythology

    Taking head of a maiden? Nonsense! That seems something that preposterous Tv how would do ...
  2. Eltharion21

    How should 'House of the Dragon' go?

    Greens had effectively only three dragons Vhagar, Sunfyre and Tessarion. Dreamfyre couldn't have another rider while its rider lived. They had to try to reduce advantage of dragons of their enemies. Caraxes, Syrax, Maelys. Vermax, Arrax, and Tyraxes were thriving and would mature faster than hatch-lings of the greens. Silverwing, Seasmoke, Vermithor, Sheepstealer, Grey Ghost, Cannibal potentially could be recruited. Rook's Rest itself wasn't goal, it was a trap meant probably for Rhaenyra ( depending if Greens had some information of proximity of dragonriders) or at least a dragon, that is evident from having two dragons waiting in ambush. Targeting the rider it is possible they tried to even take control of dragon or they thought it would be less effective with rider dead. Trying to cut head of snake seems to be major strategy of Ser Cole during the war. (sending Ser Arryk for assassination, trying to take Harenhall) Aegon himself accepted to participate in battle, it is risk that every leader must make himself, as they lacked Dragonriders to counter opponents it was necessary. Comparing it with leadership on opposing side, Rhaenyra pretty much avoided mounting her dragon in battle, an her kin went in her stead and got killed, when she eventually got executed war didn't stop anyway. I doubt war would stop either until Greens had Aegons heirs and weren't fatigued even with Aegon II dead. Even with 3 or 4 dragons Greens could hardly win in pitched battle against all of Dragons if they got tamed, time seemed to favor more Blacks especially since North needed time to gather forces. So in the end I feel Cole's tactic was sound. Capture of King's Landing even though it was major blunder of Greens, in the bit longer run effectively led to Rhaenyra's downfall, gripping tightly the throne and capital who she couldn't hold, her being ousted by rabble and death of every Targaryen dragon in the city. Green centers of power still exist and historically continue to thrive. Corlys diplomacy which Rhaenyra shunned actually won the war. Even one of most heroic engagements when Addam Velaryon attacks Green Camp in Tumbleton, is bit underwhelming, despite routing enemy army, he doesn't face neither of betrayers and dies fighting riderless Vermithor, after the dance of Seasmoke and Tessarion. ( Which might be some sort of mating dance, if Dareon was dead at the time it puts question on would that dragon be aggressive to others and could it be lured to become mount of other side) However they do adaptation, I hope to try to make it not too much one sided in conflicts, even though many are written like that , it would make most engagements annoying and underwhelming. Riverlands forces would also be ridiculously overpowered if represented as in novel, since they would win major battles against Westerlands, Crownlands, Reach and Stormlands almost single-handedly.
  3. Eltharion21

    How should 'House of the Dragon' go?

    I kinda agree that it is underwhelming a bit, not having lot of major battle feats or epic duels by important characters during the very conflict. Ser Criston Cole had excelled martially in combat before the war in various tourneys, though stakes feel much lower then. Few moments where he gets credit during the war most notably his tactics during the siege of Rook's Rest when Rhaenys appears on top of Red Queen, burning and killing men in droves: " Ser Criston Cole was not dismayed. Aegon’s Hand had expected this, counted on it." Despite efforts being focused on killing the rider she turned to be capable foe until: "Then came an answering roar. Two more winged shapes appeared: the king astride Sunfyre the Golden, and his brother Aemond upon Vhagar. Criston Cole had sprung his trap, and Rhaenys had come snatching at the bait. Now the teeth closed round her." He gets kudos also in one of his final mention's, since in part he amended natural incompetence of Aegon and Aemond through guidance. "Yet no war can be counted as won whilst foes remain unconquered. The Kingmaker, Ser Criston Cole, had been brought down, but somewhere in the realm Aegon II, the king he had made, remained alive and free." He also asked Aemond to retreat from Harenhall and join up with Hightower army a sound strategy, with support of Vhagar they would probably make it if not for that dimwit.
  4. Eltharion21

    The Baratheons Reanalyzed- Copper, Iron, and True Steel

    I would love for Stannis to become steel as in your analysis, though I must concede that he is mostly compared to iron in novels, not that is necessarily bad thing, what better king to sit iron throne than one of similar mettle: "They are quite a pair, Stannis and Renly. The iron gauntlet and the silk glove." Stannis Baratheon was a man of iron will who neither understood nor forgave weakness in others. It was all lies; there had been no anger in Stannis Baratheon when he cut the ends off his onion knight's fingers, only an iron sense of justice. His eyes were sunk in deep pits, his close-cropped beard no more than a shadow across his hollow cheeks and bony jawbone. Yet there was power in his stare, an iron ferocity that told Asha this man would never, ever turn back from his course.
  5. Didn't Viserys I specifically name Rhaenyra first as heir so his brother who was presumed heir at the time would never become the king. He later did banish Daemon though he failed to uphold that, and later he even married to Rhaenyra without his consent. It is obvious that Viserys was very flawed individual, putting fate of the realm in his hands instead of taking account of laws, conventions and decisions of Great Council is detrimental to stability. There should be taken into account that even Rhaenyra herself when deciding the fate of sucession in Stokeworth and Rosby , when she torn out tongues and executed their lords, they left older daughters elegible to marriage and younger sons, Daemon wanted to marry them to betrayers, while Corlys said they should support their sons. Here is specific quote: So Rhaenyra did herself acknowledged indirectly that her is special case as being named heir. Regarding "purer" marriage people who count blood cells tend to clamor that Rhaenyra was more Targaryen since her mother was half Targaryen half Arryn, while Aegon II's mother was Hightower. Though those points are mostly irrelevant if they could ride dragons or have clear appearance of Targaryen to booth, and "blood purity" is contradicting them supporting Rhaenyra's suspiciously looking heirs.
  6. Eltharion21

    Season 8 no longer rotten in Rotten Tomatoes

    60% TOMATOMETER Critic Ratings: 11 32% AUDIENCE SCORE User Ratings: 12859 11 Critics or 13000 audience scores, I daresay latter is more representative of the quality in Season 8.
  7. I wonder if much will be left from Meeren after the Battle of Fire, with Ironborn, Dragons unleashed, Slaver Armies, mercenaries, Pale Mare ,Revolt and schemers inside the city, even some Khalasar might join in the slaughter. Forcing the other contender to the throne, who is supposedly her nephew is better to make alliance with him or make him swear fealty and give him region to control in Westeros, or kill him even than banish him and give him chance to become greater threat in time. Golden Company could have tried to make some meager kingdom in Essos or Stepstones, but they seem to have their own goal of returning to their lands in Westeros, which is captured nicely in their motto: "Beneath the gold, the bitter steel"
  8. Eltharion21

    Songs that Make Us Think of A Song of Ice and Fire

    Technically it isn't a modern song ,but a song nonetheless. That is quote from Robert E Howard's "The Hour of the Dragon" in The Complete Chronicles of Conan, that I read from list recommended by George RR Martin, and to me it kinda reminds loosely on synopsis of Asoiaf.
  9. Eltharion21

    Who might George be talking about here?

    To me it sounds someone would be made into hamburgers, though that most likely isn't the case since it doesn't require much of a idea. Someone on reddit claimed the legend of execution of privateer in Hamburg could be connected to it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klaus_Störtebeker If so it might be some Greyjoy : Asha or Victarion maybe.
  10. Eltharion21

    Mel & Selyse

    Probably at some sort of tinder. Joking aside, Mel probably found her following her vision and used her to get near to Stannis who she believes is AA, maybe she asked for audience as many times similar characters do. It is possible Selyse is more prone in being beguiled by mystics than him, due to her character, there might be some parallels to historical cases with Rasputin or Nostradamus . Isn't it said he mostly was at Kings Landing and then visited rarely his wife who was at Dragonstone, before he eloped after Arryn's murder.
  11. Eltharion21

    In defense of Rogar Baratheon

    I find his character and that of Alyssa very well written wonderful additions to the story, showing it is possible to write compelling dramatic human story, without resorting to flash of battles, or cosmic terror. My opinion is that he is a flawed character, but has good intentions at heart, though he may be underestimating young Jaehaerys, Alyssane and Alyssa, though he has a reason when accounting troubled reign of Aenys and Maegor and wars of faith. I absolutely don't see issue in him sending Coryanne Wylde to seduce young Jaehaerys, it was most painless option at the time to try and stop marriage that could had ignited rebellions again. In general House Baratheon was foremost pillar of that dynasty, that would prove to be valuable ally in many occasions despite tense power dynamic, though Targaryens always tended to do slight them, until Mad King and Rhaegar gone too far.
  12. Eltharion21

    Uses of dragons

    In a essence I agree, though from what I saw in F&B that sort of discipline, training and dedication, is mostly dependent of the rider himself or his nature. Connection to the dragons is mysterious, and sometimes feelings of the rider and their character impacts on the dragon or vice versa, Targaryen's as a dinasty seem to mostly be improvising as seen lot in their succession rules or lack of it regarding dragons who live much longer than their riders. One of rarer ancient traditions that seem to be prevalent is incestuous marriage but having children being raised as dragonriders remains mostly left upon themselves, it is possible that similarly to some races of dogs, no dragon can stand two masters.
  13. Eltharion21

    Uses of dragons

    Dareon the Daring used Blue Queen for scouting enemy armies during the Dance, usually Dragons in peace time are being used only as show of might to houses they visit or leisure flight. Size of the dragon even its coloring may effect the role it is best suited for. Though Dragons seem to be mostly prosperously developing when left free on Dragonstone so that alone looks to be enough for them to get larger and stronger (food ,being free to fly and volcanic caves), dragons bound to Dragonpit or Rhaenyra's dragon seem to be impaired when being chained. It is possible that many knowledge about Dragons was lost after the fall of Valyria so Targaryen's had to learn lot of things again from experience and mistakes they made. I am not sure for what size of issue is effective to bring dragon, hunting bandits to me isn't reason enough to bring it to the field, minor rebellions are least reason to bring them in my opinion.
  14. Eltharion21

    An entire royal line wiped out in one battle?

    It is quite possible some of Gardner's survived but lacked power to rise again, and merged with other Houses or were omitted from records by maesters as inconsequential, and lot of Reach houses anyway claims origin from Garth Greendhand. I found interesting part in show Histories and Lore: House Tyrell by Margery Tyrell which insinuates that their stewards had part in downfall of the Gardners ( I doubt it is a canon though).
  15. Eltharion21

    Who was the Biggest Villain of the Dance?

    His actions are open to interpretation he hasn't Pov chapter or that doesn't count in his case unlike You claim it does in Cersei's? His story isn't finished in the novels yet, so judgment of unbiased reader will depend how events unfold. Stannis is certainly rather cold even towards his own family, and his brusque speech, lack of conventional charisma and humor, makes him easily misunderstood and lot of people cant forgive him insulting Eddard, Robb, Gilly, Jon or other more likable characters. Some theorize that Melisandre has seen Cressen attempt on her life (since that is the first thing she learned to see) told Stannis about it to show her powers, and Stannis wanted him retired so he was more harsh toward him, not inviting him several times to counsels to avoid it happening. We already have lot of contradicting information about him in GoT, this may have be another, since he seems rather pragmatic in many choices and capable in showing regret and human emotion. You try to undermine his Statement without going in depth, focusing on every one of those characters Deamon Blackfyre, Brothers Toyne, Vulture King, Grand Maester Hareth., and the fact he recognizes both Viserys I and Aegon III as rightful kings, but focus on his character and extensive story lines in Asoiaf, which isn't only time consuming and counterproductive for this thread, but also shows You are willing to disregard everything just to absolve Rhaenyra's crimes. I cant see it, some compare him to Cregan or even Aegon III during the dance , I can't see similarities to neither regardless of their sex, because what I see in essence is one of rare characters who tries to do right thing, though shadowed with his personal issues, perspective and self preservation. We as readers know Stannis is right, lot of High Lords are also aware of the incest but they only do things what is in their interest, that is huge difference between likes of Lysa Arryn, Tyrion, Kevan, Renly and Eddard or Stannis. In such societies, Eddard's investigation and comparison between numerous Roberts bastards and his children by Cersei is evidence enough, and would tip the scale in favor of those claiming their bastardy, that is one of the reasons Cersei ordered their deaths. Jon Arryn's death confirmed his suspicions in Stannis eyes, seeing that Kings Landing is corrupted by Lannisters and other Lords would only respect power in the end, so he decides to prepare for war. Robert wasn't his dear brother, he tried to influence Robert many times but it fell on deaf ears, and to inform him about it through Jon Arryn, because it is little likely he would believe him. Kings Landing and its organisations were deeply rotten, he knew that as part of Small Council and he had little support there, he wouldn't fare much better than Eddard Stark. He didn't sulk, he started preparing for the war he knew it was very likely . Most of Your analogies are inapplicable in those cases. You compare them with modern logic and not with existing quasi medieval feudal family system. Even Kings or Queens need to respect laws they proclaim, or it all falls apart. She ordered execution of Vaemond knowing her children were bastards, so You are wrong on that also. I disagree, King's in Westeros are also men and they should answer to the laws and decisions that better Kings and majority of lords reach, especially regarding succession. I feel same about majority of Your claims, and lack of knowledge about most of topics compared to number of posts here. Corlys was trying to get to the throne from before Great Council, either through Rhaenys or Laenor, he was very ambitious as mentioned several times in the text. His family managed eventually to reach that position through their ward marrying Aegon III after murder of Queen Jaehaera , histories would be in favor of their description as "heroes" of the war. There is no point of marrying daughters of Daemon and Laena Velaryon to sons of Rhaeanyra and Laenor Velaryon and not only once but twice, unless there are some secluded cracks in their alliance. Velaryons switched sides two times later so their relationship was less than stellar. Vaemond told the truth, consequence of that truth is that he is next in the line to inherit that House. He paid with his life for daring to tell truth. Because Rhaenyra nor Daemon ware never a rightful persons they murdered him, that shows how much moral high ground they held among many other things. Viserys was incompetent, during his later years even more so and his decisions caused the dance. She died a traitor's death, similarly to Renly. It was enough for them both a Hand of the King, there is no Dna test in that society, later also Eddard Stark, Cersei instantly confessed when confronted and tried to seduce him instead, Kevan also found out, many other lords quite easily accept it as the fact when told, but their decisions are based on self interest, not on justice.(I am forced to repeat myself when faced with same questions.) Seriously... There are numerous mentions of Jaime being the father it in her chapters later and Jaime's too... People when trying to reach to just conclusion of crimes and situations, when faced with opposition of guilty party which evades their sentence by devious means, have different choices in pursuing the justice: First is try to get solution honorably placing Yourself some legal limitations like Eddard tried, and die. Or by using any arms at your disposal to punish them like Stannis does, neither is perfect way of solving the problem, I personally am partial to more effective one. Even geneticists in our modern age would say chances are few thousand times at least in favor of Rhaenyra's children father being Harwin Strong, as claimed before "Power resides where men believe it resides", if enough doubt they are true born, more power goes to their undoubtedly and existing true born kin. I slander nothing, usually when depicting people in F&B their worse traits become prominent later in life , Rhaenyra's children died too young to evaluate their character, and two excesses mentioned aren't slander but true recordings. Aegon II is hardly the worst Targaryen even in that time period. It isn't very hard to show weakness inherent in other side also, after all Rhaenyra and Daemon are prime example, and also those people never did pretend to sit the throne and prove to be horrible rulers unlike them. I hope You have enough mental capacity to apply what is written of Small Council after the death of Viserys, where in various reasons were put for supporting either side, it isn't very unlikely that some of the Houses joined depending of their situation or interests regarding succession as evident with situations in Vale, Rosby, Stokeworth and having in mind that in Westeros matters of bastardry are important so much that Civil Wars are started for. Corlys and Rhaenys decided they would mitigate it through marriage with their grand daughters, and they probably came to terms that Laenor would ever have children. He didn't have dragons, Stannis was truly a Underdog, Rhaenyra wasn't. Even when besieging the King's Landing with around 20.000 men and 200 ships he was against the garrison of 8000 men, 57 ships, city walls and Wildfire along with relief force of 50.000- 100.000 men breathing down his neck. You talk about love in world where arranged marriages are rule and that by their siblings mostly, any true love is doubtful to happen in those situations, they are mostly alliances of power. Her children with Viserys were true born and acknowledged dragonriders and had claim to the throne. Jaehaerys seems to have been truly great man, worthy of remembrance and respect, they might have bonded as he mistook her for his daughter and she recalled him in her old age.I found that interesting and somewhat touching, Viserys disposition toward everyone seems to be overly tolerating, and sweeping most of the issues under the rug, she also suffered her son losing an eye unresolved, he was far from loving husband, if he didn't take her well being and those of their children in account. Thankfully i don't see message You are seeing. King is dead and succession crisis was evident while he was alive, and he did little to stop it. That is why institutions, laws, and traditions exist when common sense and ego's of offspring are preventing peaceful transition. There isn't much that character could add, and over seasoning with another "surprising" Targaryen along with theories about Melisandre, Quaithe, Mance and others would turn Asoiaf in parody. Bloodraven is more than enough. I am talking about the letter he sent to Rhaenyra which is written evidence of his involvement, along with other events that sometimes don't have written records but show pattern of murderous scheming behavior nonetheless. Killing innocents as payment for crimes of their family is never justified, and that claim makes me doubt everything else You claim or adhering to any sort of "moral high ground" . There are two separate occasions of him supporting the Betrayers, along with Mushroom and Munkun collaborating on their reaction when being rejected. The glove fits in this case. There are many things under doubt in information that Gyldane compiles, those aren't put in to doubt either by author or by claims of other sources in the story, to me it seems you are grasping for straws. Please put quotes or links to those argumented claims if You want to be taken seriously. In that moment She was truly broken Woman, with most of her family killed, unlike Rhaenyra I felt sorry for her and she reminded me of Lady Stoneheart. Blood would be tortured regardless of her decision, You forget the King was present in the capital. Regarding bathing in blood of his family, that is unproven rumor, if anything she should be asking to bathe in blood of Rhaenyra's and Daemon's children which she didn't though She was in position later. I disagree and I believe author of the story does too, judging by this lovely passage also King was having health issues at the time of his placing in position, so he might have been chosen by Ser Otto : Then She maybe shouldn't taken the capital but tried either capturing economically sustainable towns, valuable resources, taking the loans... Actual truth is that she was vastly incompetent for the position she desired. Alicent wasn't in deciding position during the much of the war or previously, she was mostly counseling, making most impactful decisions was mostly on Viserys , later on Aegon II and Rhaenyra. It is relevant when King decides to gather all the lords in the land to decide about choosing his heir, when brother of King usurps the throne kills his brother son and marries his daughter, even Jaehaerys succession is based on power of political alliance, going over daughter of Aenys and her daughters. My statement is directed mostly on your philosophy that Kings should decide everything, and not be bound by any laws in society, which I disagree with. Even in Westeros power of King isn't absolute, that analogy could clearly be seen in the Iron Throne its huge size, and barbs that no king is meant to sit comfortably. High Lords are closest to power of King if their word or decisions of previous rulers aren't recognized it creates huge instability and ignoring them shows how badly person would rule. I disagree intrigue, assassination and creation of alliances ware happening much before real war has begun. Greens were on offensive during the most of the conflict in their opponents territory so it is logical they would be considered by aggressors by population there, when in fact they were fighting under authority of Aegon II. Blacks as winners of conflict are certainly portrayed in better light by contemporary sources. Claiming one side had moral high ground is dubious at best, two wrongs don't make a right.