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Springwatch

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  1. That is what we have been talking about this last four pages, in fact.
  2. Mmm. iirc Tyion thinks a couple of times that Cat's sense of honour will protect him from Lysa's worst excesses. Can't remember the details. The King's road is not an option. Tywin got the news really fast. Tyrion had hopes the Freys would send ravens out. Maybe they did. But this is why I like the Starks - their instinct is to drag all treacherous game players out of the shadows, show them what justice looks like, and generally live life as a song. KL without Starks is a bit of a drag. All that constant intrigue with Cersei - too much.
  3. Bet you're thinking of this: Still. If he was so clever, he wouldn't have broken cover like that.
  4. She's got a ghost wolf. As big as mountains....
  5. But that is Lysa's trial for the murder of Jon Arryn, and we're talking about Cat. Don't conflate the two. Cat hated what Lysa did; what she wanted for Tyrion was something different. It's my belief that she wanted the King involved, and this came out in her speech at the inn when she said Tyrion must 'await the king's justice' - i.e. no immediate local trial; but wait for a decision from the king on the trial's format. Almost certainly they would be recalled to KL; this time with a full armed escort. This is better for Cat, because she wants the entire Lannister family on trial - Tyrion for the assassin, Cersei and Jaime for Bran's fall, and Cersei (?) for Jon Arryn. As in a mafia trial, Tyrion in the dock would show that Lannister invulnerability was a myth - hopefully witnesses would come forward and the whole pack of cards come tumbling down.
  6. He demanded trial by combat, and got it. He could do that because the Vale lords consider themselves just and honourable people. My point is that the King only heard Cersei's version of events; he didn't even allow Ned to speak. Therefore him calling it an abduction doesn't mean very much.
  7. Why do you think Sansa wasn't affected? He kills people, and she obeys him. Lets him kiss her. Agrees to obliterate her identity for him. That is reasonable cause and effect.
  8. Suspects are presumed innocent until proved guilty. That's what trials are for, to establish innocence or guilt. It follows that suspects are arrested before guilt or innocence is established. In Westeros, the aristocracy are the judges, and Cat was Ned's deputy in the North, where the crime was committed. You say she has no authority to act, but people's reactions say she does. Tyrion often protested his innocence, but never tried to argue that the arrest itself was illegal, not to Cat, not to the soldiers in the inn, not to the honourable Vale lords, not to anyone. Cat did not kidnap Tyrion (i.e. grab him and hide him), but took him to a secure and public place. A place of justice in fact, a high lord's court. Tyrion claimed his rights many times in front of the Vale lords, but did not complain of kidnapping. The King's Road is not an option. We know that from Tyrion's pov, from Cat's pov, and it's confirmed by Yoren's report to Ned that plenty of men in that inn went running for Lannister gold immediately. If Cat could not safely take Tyrion north on the King's Road, she certainly could not take him south. Everyone's sins on their own heads, right? Jaime is guilty of an unprovoked attack, Tywin is guilty of starting war in the riverlands, and Cat is guilty of... nothing really. Cersei got to the King before Ned did; obviously she wouldn't say anything about Tyrion being accused of attempted murder. Robert didn't care about justice - he just demanded a reconciliation. When Ned said Cat had reasons, Robert said to hell with her reasons. That was it.
  9. Yes. But there was also that interesting moment when Joff mocks Tywin, saying his dad was a better man. There is something there.
  10. An arrow through her back on the Kingsroad would be a much simpler solution for Tyrion. (This is Tyrion-if-he-was-a-murderer we're talking about.)
  11. Crafty will do, but excuse me, suggesting Sansa knew about Stannis is a straight misdirect. Ok, a lie. GRRM has gone to a lot of work to put roadblocks in every avenue by which Sansa might have contributed to the fall of Ned. Like your letter. I don't why he's done it, but he has. If you think of a new scenario, bring it out, but at this stage I think there is nothing new under the sun. ETA It's not my job to convince you. The books will do that, if you let them.
  12. @Mourning Star I disagree with everything, everything above. Think we'd best call it a day.
  13. Yes. Effectively, he does. I wouldn't have put it as strongly as that - I'd say his interviews are designed to be provocative and entertaining, with pure facts coming a distant third. I think he would never want to put a controversy to bed, as it were. I haven't time to go into it more right now, but I wrote some thoughts earlier in the thread here.
  14. Yeah, I don't agree, as I've argued at length before. I think GRRM has given us a big shiny box covered with ribbons and glitter and stuff, but there's nothing inside. But I understand why many people feel they have to take these remarks at face value. I'll only say that his remarks about Stannis and Renly prove that he is not 100% serious all the time - because making that connection with Sansa is patently impossible.
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