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Springwatch

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  1. Springwatch

    So how/will that go down in the books?

    The books will more Song of Ice and Fire - we can get to see gods and destiny and elemental forces, all that. It will be easy to show what drives the main characters; it could be something like this: Dany drinks too deep from the cup of fire - too many wars, too much blood, too many dragons - and finally her god reaches her. She becomes full-on AA, the puppet of Rhllor, his fiery hand. Not mad, but possessed. Not plot-armoured, but protected. Something similar with a Stark or two, and problem solved: we have our grand finale, with both the human-heart-in-conflict-with itself, and the ultimate ice/fire showdown. (Nearly everybody dies. Jon and Arya save the day. )
  2. Springwatch

    Rickon is destined to be new Lord of Winterfell

    Very good. But a chess board, or cyvasse board, has two ends. A game of thrones has at least two thrones. There's no contradiction between Sansa's wishes being orientated to the north (undeniable) and Sansa's experience being focused on the game of thrones. The Others have a culture too. We've seen one of them fight a duel with Waymar exactly as a human would (only with better weapons). In their own style, they have a culture, they have leaders, they have a throne. It appears that the Starks over the years have had a special place in the battle against winter ('there must always be a Stark....') Sending a Stark south would be a stupid waste of an important playing piece. I don't know about Rickon through. He's too young to have much influence apart from his precious kingsblood. And the colours of his wolf are the inverse of Jon's Ghost - maybe you can have Jon or Rickon, but not both. That would be a pretty pointless arc when winter is coming. Love her or loathe her, Sansa has been given a lot of page space in the story. She has a place in it. Whatever her arc is, it will not end in a side issue. (Actually I have hopes that Cersei will not end as a side issue either, but unless she allies herself with the Others, she cannot be the ultimate foe of the Starks.) Agree. The author decided to make Sansa a fine singer - if a Song of Ice and Fire has any meaning at all, she will have a place in it.
  3. Springwatch

    Let's speculate about Illyrio's chests

    The candied ginger. I think it's to show that YG likes hot food - he loves heat, like a true Targ. (I think Tyrion's enthusiasm for pepper in agot says the same thing: secret Targ.) Maybe some food code or word play in there too
  4. Springwatch

    Let's speculate about Illyrio's chests

    But they do. Its not by default or assumptions, Dany says grab "my" dragoneggs. Dont burn "my" weapons. Drogo says dont take Silver. She ownes stuff What? Seriously? She said "my son" as well - a woman should have some rights to her own child, you'd think? But not according to the Dothraki: Jorah warns that the baby will be thrown to the dogs as soon as it is born. The Dothraki are not some band of early feminists who might just support a woman's independent right to property - it's the raping, pillaging, murdering, destroying and enslaving that really are typical of Dothraki values. All Dany's rights are borrowed from Drogo. When he dies, she gets the right to be Dosh Khaleen, and the protection of her kas until she is. Everything else disappears in a puff of smoke - even before Drogo dies, she's threatened with being staked out to be gang-raped and then eaten by vermin. Justice and respect are not appearing anywhere here. It's the right of the strong to take from the weak. That's all there is. The law may have fallen in those other places, but Dothraki law/custom was upheld when Drogo died. Wannabe khals seize the power and the property, ideally the dead khal's heir dies, and the khaleesi must fend for herself. Anyway, enough already. Let's call it a day; we've said everything that's to be said on this topic; let's not say it twice.
  5. Springwatch

    Predicting and Gambling

    Sansa spends most of the Long Night asleep / comatose / dreaming / sort of dead. (It's really hard to define a bet in a way that's clear enough to ever get paid out.) The Long Night actually occurs over three nights. Three sleeps, that is, because the last day never sees the sun. Or maybe that is the Long Night. And there'll be some sort of time slip. (See?) The Others, or someone else who lives in the far north, have a society based on insects. There will be hives, and hive-minds. (I should really bet on this one.)
  6. Springwatch

    Let's speculate about Illyrio's chests

    That previous post hit a nerve, that's all. Saying that by default we have to assume the Dothraki would be respectful of women's property rights is to credit them with enlightened values they simply don't have. Almost back in agreement here. There are no property rights, only strength. The khal is the strongest man: he can say who owns a horse or a slave or a gift - and the decision is respected because of the strength of the khal. When he falls, only the bloodriders still respect the 'rights' he gave Dany. Oh yes. Cersei would like the Dothraki very much. As long as she got to be khal.
  7. Springwatch

    Let's speculate about Illyrio's chests

    After 5 years on the forum, I think I've just hit peak disagreement with a fellow poster. More than words can express - so I won't try, except for the snippet above. No, the Dothraki do not respect property rights (why would this even be a surprise?) Eroeh was Dany's property because the khal supported her claim. When the khal was sick and powerless. Eroeh was seized, gang-raped and murdered. Horses and slaves that were Drogo's property were stolen too. Rakharo explains that this is the Dothraki way: 'It is the right of the strong to take from the weak.'
  8. Springwatch

    Let's speculate about Illyrio's chests

    One thing we're sure of is that the Dothraki have no conception of human rights. Women are chattel. By Dothraki custom, a khal may share his wife with his bloodriders - not something any free woman would choose. If he believes he owns her body, he certainly believes he owns her stuff as well. It's not so much about what Drogo's personal ethics, but the image of power he projects over his fellow khals and his aggressive, unruly people. He has to look strong, in their terms. So, the Dothraki look at the trophies Drogo wins in life - the gold, the Targ princess, the dragon eggs - and they think wow, khal of khals, he's the top. What would they think if Dany gave away the dragon eggs? Not a scenario we ever got to see, but it would be intense. Drogo, who thought he was so great, loses dragon eggs to Sorefoot Viserys, the Cart King. No humiliation could be worse. Drogo also appears unmoved by having his nipple cut off, but must we believe in that too? No, obviously it hurt like hell. Drogo has a false face; he puts on a front to meet his followers expectations of the ideal Dothraki leader, brave and strong - and also, too high-minded to care about money. Syrio says says look for the realities, not words. The reality is that Drogo is not that interested in luxury (he lives the simple life at home). He is interested in wealth, otherwise he wouldn't go to all the trouble of taking slaves to the Slaver cities, and he wouldn't lift the siege on free cities. So it's not wealth, as such, it's wealth as tokens of success, as a marker of his victories in the Dothraki game of thrones. I would be interested to see that, certainly. Which brings us back to Illyrio. A very wealthy man, without a doubt. But - we don't know his overall position, financially. He earns a lot, and he spends a lot. Recently, his spending has gone through the roof: he's bought two armies, for the purposes of invading a continent. He's just one man! Armies are usually bought by city states, not individuals. I think Illyrio has thrown everything into Aegon's adventure. He didn't give away the wealth embodied in the dragon eggs - he is spending big in order to win big. When Tyrion leaves to join the Shy Maid, he thinks Illyrio looks smaller, diminished. A suggestion, perhaps, that Illyrio has emptied himself out in Aegon's cause. He may be bankrupt. Whatever is in those chests is the last of the gifts he can give.
  9. Springwatch

    Let's speculate about Illyrio's chests

    I don't believe that for a pico second. The Dothraki make a big pretence about not buying and selling; but everyone knows they have a keen sense of what a gift is worth. So the value of the eggs is: It is the Dothraki way to receive a gift, and return a gift of equivalent value. The khals direct their armies away from the free cities only when a suitable 'gift' has been received. I think they do 'give a fig' about wealth. It's about power and prestige. Drogo has a wife with three dragon eggs. His sons will own three dragon eggs. That's the bottom line.
  10. Springwatch

    Bran becoming the next Night King

    Well, I like it. But I'm just a clueless book reader; people who actually watch the show seem to think it's game over, and they're probably right; wisdom of crowds and all that. But it seems wrong that you defeat the masters of death by killing them; and if they gain control over a Stark or two that would make them powerful. And also vulnerable.... I could really see this working. I was expecting Sansa to go over, maybe Jon, but Bran would be interesting. Should give us the human heart in conflict with itself. I'll have to look up these Bran theories. (I really need to know the ending of this story! Soon!)
  11. Springwatch

    Jon's resurrection

    Just looked over the pink letter chapter again. Jon still thinks his wolf and Borroq's boar would fight to the death given the opportunity. It's probable Jon and Borroq will resonate to that hostility, so help and support between them is unlikely. Mel speaks to Jon before he reads the pink letter. She says, "All your questions shall be answered. Look to the skies, Lord Snow. And when you have your answers, send to me. Winter is almost upon us now. I am your only hope." @divicaIt doesn't exactly say she expects to be saving his life. And previously she has been fatalistic about Jon putting himself in danger; she says people never listen to her warnings until it's too late. More likely she's thinking of the Battle for the Dawn, her personal obsession. Jon is not calling the shots now. That's kind of the point. Not sure about the bolded. It's not just inconvenient, it's a survival matter. The Watch will have made stores of wood, but they did not allow for all these extra people, and they did not expect to be fighting a war and burning every single body. Cutting more wood is problematic even in normal snow and ice, let alone supernatural winter. This is a stewards' rebellion; they are aware of these things. There will be pyres, but not instantaneous and unlimited. Regardless, Jon cannot be burned immediately - the aftermath of the assassination and coup must be dealt with. So he's put in a secure ice cell - safe, and less likely to stir up his supporters than a burning. The ice cell is interesting in a lot of ways. The Wall is an intensely magical construction. It's suggested that it's haunted, and its castles are haunted. The magic of the Wall might be an alternative refuge for Jon's spirit, so that he doesn't have to spend all his time in Ghost and go wolf crazy. He can be his own Ghost. The quote I gave earlier, together with Winterfell crypt quotes - suggest that Jon's 'ghost' period is highly significant to the story: Seems like Jon's going back to his roots. Lord Jonnel was a bit of a surprise. The son of Lynara Stark, Lord Jonnel married Sansa Stark, his niece. Whatever, Jon is foreshadowed among the unquiet dead. He's got a job to do. He doesn't need to rise from the dead to do those things, that's what I'm saying. These are 'normal' problems for normal, living people. The attack on Jon would have killed any 'normal' character. If Jon can just bounce back from the dead, all dramatic tension is lost. The 'death' only makes sense if treated seriously, it can't just be Jon showing off his plot armour and picking up another suite of skills.
  12. Springwatch

    Jon's resurrection

    You're assuming peace and normal operations at the Wall. Political and/or violent chaos is more likely, with Jon dumped in an ice cell until a more convenient time ('Jon sleeping alone in a cold bed, his skin growing pale and hard as the memory of all warmth fled from him.') Also, burning is not a trivial exercise. Turning a tree into fuel takes a lot of time and labour, and for some reason the brothers find it necessary to take trees from the north side of the Wall. Fuel is a thousand times more precious now that everyone recognises that winter is coming. So burning may be essential, but almost certainly they will save up bodies and burn them in batches. But what would be the point, from the narrative perspective? Nothing changes, except Jon's arc is devoid of tension because he is a plastic superhero doll who bounces back from every deadly attack.
  13. Springwatch

    Small Questions v. 10106

    Maybe. Probably even. Pyromancers were supporters of King Aerys, and also supporters of dragons. I hadn't noticed it before, but they requested a chance to hatch dragon eggs if any were found on Dragonstone. So, here at least, dragon-love and Targ-love go hand in hand. Maesters are anti-dragon. Maybe all kinds of dragon.
  14. Fire consumes. Fire wights all just burn out eventually, I assume. Beric might have burnt out quicker than most, because he was made accidentally, by a priest who didn't know what he was doing.
  15. Springwatch

    Jon's resurrection

    If he does get resurrected, I only know it won't happen quickly. There's a big spirit world out there we hardly know anything about, and Jon's arc is already aimed at connection with the wights, and with the ghosts in the crypts. In fact, he might be a lot more powerful dead than he ever could be alive. Living armies don't stand much chance in Old Nan's version of winter.
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