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About Springwatch

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  1. Springwatch

    Need Help!!!

    She's not dumb. She's a child (Myrcella says, we are children). So, to a degree, yes she's shallow and self-centred. So is Arya, who always ruins everything from Sansa's pov. They hadn't developed empathy for each others needs and differences, but they will. Arya was naive too, living in a world of games and let's-pretend, just as Sansa lived in a world of dreams. It was great fan service to have Arya openly disrespect the royals; openly prefer the company of a butcher's boy - very modern, very tropey even - but the game of thrones doesn't work like that. She was ignorant, uninterested and in danger (totally Ned's fault, of course). He wrote her to be disliked. Tummy flutters, and 'ever so's', and fussing with her hair, and falling in love with totally the wrong people. Back to tropes again. In the first scenes, the wholly lovable heroic Arya is bullied by her worthless elder sister. Or is she? GRRM sets up the tropes, then he cleverly undermines them. Early Sansa is annoying, and in opposition to our hero Arya, and maybe a different author would have given Arya all the virtues and Sansa only faults. GRRM likes shades of grey. If Sansa is stupid and ignorant here, then so is Tywin. Anyway, it's interesting in itself that we are seeing crazy levels of innovation after hundreds and hundreds of years of tradition and stability. Statues are reserved for the tombs of Stark Lords - but Lyanna gets one. Families hold on to their ancestral VS swords - but the Mormonts just give theirs away. Kingsguard are knights - but Sandor isn't. Kingsguard serve for life - but Barristan doesn't. Night's Watchmen serve for life - but Jon doesn't have to, in Robb's opinion. The IT passes to the male heir - but the Dornish think they can change all that. etc All the Stark children learned about knights from Old Nan's stories. All of them are expecting to meet heroes. Even Jon is expecting the Watchmen to be like that - knights of the Wall. Bran wants to be Symeon Star-Eyes. And Sansa wants Loras to makes the legends real too. So what. Over time she learns to distrust charm, love, beauty and the appearance of goodness. She learns to distrust knights - at one point she says something like, the Hound hates knights; I hate them too. She does learn to value and respect Lothor Brune. What more do you want? Tough, isn't it? Nowadays we like to hear that rank doesn't matter, but back in history it mattered a lot, a lot. It's the game of thrones come back to bite you again. Beric is not interested in Jeyne, and Mya's knight didn't marry her either. This is one point where Sansa shows hard-headed realism, something she must have picked up from Mordane and Cat. Cat says something very similar, iirc. OMG, yes. That is, I really don't believe Joff had any influence on Jaime's attack on Ned and Jory. But there were definitely OMG moments. But this is the first book. She's eleven, a child behaving like a child, and she doesn't seem to be getting much guidance from Ned, or anyone. GRRM wrote her this way. He put loads of work in this character, and gave her masses of space in the books. Did he really do all that work just to say: pretty little princess with air in her head? I don't think so! Sansa and Arya are as different as sun and moon. Would you discard the moon? One has words and one has swords. Soft power and hard power. They are a complementary pair, and the story needs them both.
  2. Springwatch

    Need Help!!!

    You can't possibly think this is a strong argument. Or do you? Strong prejudgments are guaranteed to lead to a lot of errors. And dead ends. Like this one! From all I've seen on this forum, no-one who has decided a character is stupid can think any further than that. It doesn't matter how we rate a character what we think; what's important is the author's ideas for that character: the strengths and weaknesses he gave them, the opportunities, and the potential for change. He doesn't write one-dimensional characters, and that includes Sansa.
  3. Springwatch

    Tyrek Lannister theories?

    The most, most probable scenario is that Tyrek was carried away by the starving horde and ended up in a kettle of brown. The story doesn't need him - even his big secret is not that important now that winter has come, climate disaster is imminent, and a real zombie horde is rising in the north. And there lies the likely purpose of Tyrek's story: just as the mob of KL makes an excellent foreshadow for the army of wights, so too Tyrek's fate reflects on... someone. I'm betting on Tyrion. If I remember rightly, Lancel makes a pretty good parallel to Jaime, so why not?
  4. Springwatch

    Did Cersei help cause her mother’s death?

    Possible, just not very likely. Her reaction is to torment Tyrion:
  5. Regardless of what the song meant, it could be that Ashara faked her own death for the sake of baby Aegon, her prince. As a Targ loyalist it was her duty to save him, and hide him. He's dead the same way Bran and Rickon are dead. Officially dead. And officially, Ashara threw herself from the tower.
  6. Springwatch

    Is the hound Sansa's 'new direwolf'?

    As far as we know, slipping skins wasn't happening for any of the Starks at the time Lady died - it was just too early. And we can assume Sansa didn't experience any wolf dreams, at least of the bloodthirsty kind, because that would be disturbing enough to trouble her daytime thoughts. The direwolves are much more than skinchanging and dreams though - they are supernaturally empathetic and co-operative, and they match temperament with their owners. Lady has already made this connection. Even after Lady's death, Sansa has moments of defiance and physical courage she never had before - so the wolf influence lives on. He rescued Loras from the Mountain too, before anyone else even thought of reacting. An elite bodyguard always has a good nose for trouble, no warging necessary. I don't think he's lost that - he might reject the crazy Hound mindset, but he also identifies simply as a dog ('my own dog now'). Dogs that are not hounds include Meribald's protector, Dog (peaceable and brave), and Pod's Hero. Anyway, yes to the Lady-replacement idea. I'd even go further, and include Arya, who had to separate from Nymeria, and wished for a lion-killing dog. In hindsight, Sandor might feel he let down both Stark girls pretty badly - his own conscience would make him want to fight again in their defence. Especially for Sansa, who has no fighting ability of her own (the giant will die of words, or love, or poison, or even fire - but not bloodshed. Not Sansa's style.)
  7. Springwatch

    The Plutionian Others

    There's way more science here than I'd ever be expecting, but still lots to like. I'm very keen on insectoid Others: it seems that fur and feathers are super-abundant in the early parts of the story, but as Winter/Nightfall approaches, frequency of fish and insects goes up and up. Maybe a thing whose time has come. If so, I can't wait to see how the insect side of winter interacts with the tree side, and will this fit in with Mel's idea of opposites at war. Sounds like a good and proper evil ice spider. Except those tales of her are twisted truths, or as Bennis explains to Dunk, “There’s truths and truths, lunk. Some don’t serve.” ... I could never get in to the Dunk stories, but this one does feel curious. You could say it breaks the pattern; spiders have no particular association with the north - which is a bit odd when we've got striking examples like the ice spiders, and the queen (empress?) spider Bran saw in the woods. Or you could say it's part of the deceptive nature of ice, which is most deadly when giving the illusion of warmth. In which case Rohanne may be as cold-hearted as the rumours tell it. Mainly I like to think the Day contains things that are 'true' mirror images of the Night. The legend of the ice dragon would support that, and there's already a very solid example in fiery Mel and the icy corpse queen, who run parallel in a number of ways. So we know what the corpse queen is like, because we know Mel.
  8. Springwatch

    Let's speculate about Illyrio's chests

    The ginger is sweet and hot at the same time - the popular choice for dragon bait....
  9. Springwatch

    Symbolism of Ice Fire and Earth

    Well, at least one person, Gilly, perceives a song of metal: "Dalla brought him forth during battle, as the swords sang all around her. That should be his name. Aemon Battleborn. Aemon Steelsong." And Luwin once said that metals of the chains represented different kinds of people. Still, I'm not sure. Fire is very strongly linked to life, and humans are very much alive. Another puzzling 'element' is wood. Jojen(?) says there is a power in wood as strong as fire (iirc). Mel sees a wooden faced man in her visions, and concludes he is the servant of the Great Other. Are wood and ice aligned, somehow?
  10. Springwatch

    So how/will that go down in the books?

    The books will more Song of Ice and Fire - we can get to see gods and destiny and elemental forces, all that. It will be easy to show what drives the main characters; it could be something like this: Dany drinks too deep from the cup of fire - too many wars, too much blood, too many dragons - and finally her god reaches her. She becomes full-on AA, the puppet of Rhllor, his fiery hand. Not mad, but possessed. Not plot-armoured, but protected. Something similar with a Stark or two, and problem solved: we have our grand finale, with both the human-heart-in-conflict-with itself, and the ultimate ice/fire showdown. (Nearly everybody dies. Jon and Arya save the day. )
  11. Springwatch

    Rickon is destined to be new Lord of Winterfell

    Very good. But a chess board, or cyvasse board, has two ends. A game of thrones has at least two thrones. There's no contradiction between Sansa's wishes being orientated to the north (undeniable) and Sansa's experience being focused on the game of thrones. The Others have a culture too. We've seen one of them fight a duel with Waymar exactly as a human would (only with better weapons). In their own style, they have a culture, they have leaders, they have a throne. It appears that the Starks over the years have had a special place in the battle against winter ('there must always be a Stark....') Sending a Stark south would be a stupid waste of an important playing piece. I don't know about Rickon through. He's too young to have much influence apart from his precious kingsblood. And the colours of his wolf are the inverse of Jon's Ghost - maybe you can have Jon or Rickon, but not both. That would be a pretty pointless arc when winter is coming. Love her or loathe her, Sansa has been given a lot of page space in the story. She has a place in it. Whatever her arc is, it will not end in a side issue. (Actually I have hopes that Cersei will not end as a side issue either, but unless she allies herself with the Others, she cannot be the ultimate foe of the Starks.) Agree. The author decided to make Sansa a fine singer - if a Song of Ice and Fire has any meaning at all, she will have a place in it.
  12. Springwatch

    Let's speculate about Illyrio's chests

    The candied ginger. I think it's to show that YG likes hot food - he loves heat, like a true Targ. (I think Tyrion's enthusiasm for pepper in agot says the same thing: secret Targ.) Maybe some food code or word play in there too
  13. Springwatch

    Let's speculate about Illyrio's chests

    But they do. Its not by default or assumptions, Dany says grab "my" dragoneggs. Dont burn "my" weapons. Drogo says dont take Silver. She ownes stuff What? Seriously? She said "my son" as well - a woman should have some rights to her own child, you'd think? But not according to the Dothraki: Jorah warns that the baby will be thrown to the dogs as soon as it is born. The Dothraki are not some band of early feminists who might just support a woman's independent right to property - it's the raping, pillaging, murdering, destroying and enslaving that really are typical of Dothraki values. All Dany's rights are borrowed from Drogo. When he dies, she gets the right to be Dosh Khaleen, and the protection of her kas until she is. Everything else disappears in a puff of smoke - even before Drogo dies, she's threatened with being staked out to be gang-raped and then eaten by vermin. Justice and respect are not appearing anywhere here. It's the right of the strong to take from the weak. That's all there is. The law may have fallen in those other places, but Dothraki law/custom was upheld when Drogo died. Wannabe khals seize the power and the property, ideally the dead khal's heir dies, and the khaleesi must fend for herself. Anyway, enough already. Let's call it a day; we've said everything that's to be said on this topic; let's not say it twice.
  14. Springwatch

    Predicting and Gambling

    Sansa spends most of the Long Night asleep / comatose / dreaming / sort of dead. (It's really hard to define a bet in a way that's clear enough to ever get paid out.) The Long Night actually occurs over three nights. Three sleeps, that is, because the last day never sees the sun. Or maybe that is the Long Night. And there'll be some sort of time slip. (See?) The Others, or someone else who lives in the far north, have a society based on insects. There will be hives, and hive-minds. (I should really bet on this one.)
  15. Springwatch

    Let's speculate about Illyrio's chests

    That previous post hit a nerve, that's all. Saying that by default we have to assume the Dothraki would be respectful of women's property rights is to credit them with enlightened values they simply don't have. Almost back in agreement here. There are no property rights, only strength. The khal is the strongest man: he can say who owns a horse or a slave or a gift - and the decision is respected because of the strength of the khal. When he falls, only the bloodriders still respect the 'rights' he gave Dany. Oh yes. Cersei would like the Dothraki very much. As long as she got to be khal.