James Fenimore Cooper XXII

Manderly came to Winterfell with no expectations of ever leaving alive. That crazy mischief with the pie was too risky. He is not making it back to his home. He wants to kill the Boltons and pave the way for Rickon. I don't know if he will achieve that but he will give it a good try.

There are people who have never stopped working in the background to restore the Targaryens. King Viserys III was crowned on Dragonstone, which is Westeros. He was king in every legal way. His heir, Princess Daenerys, was his heir. Robert's conquest was not complete because the heir to the throne managed to avoid him. The Starks, at their highest achievement, were just the "kings" of the least-desirable lands in Westeros. They are one of the poorer of the Great Houses. They are not the equal of the Targaryens in achievement. The Starks have claims to the North and Winterfell, and so do the Targaryens because those places are part of Westeros. The Targaryen claim to Westeros continues to this day. Yes, ofcourse any Targaryen claimant will have to take back the control from the Lannisters by force. But that is the nature of claims. It's only as good as one's ability to make good on that claim. The Boltons will have to be evicted by force too. Claim alone is not enough to win but it is the basis for what the public will see as "rightful."

That's alright with me. I think Dany is Azor Ahai. You think Jon is Azor Ahai. We will just agree to disagree. I suppose that applies to the Starks because they lost Winterfell. They lost any right they had to Winterfell. Jon is most probably the son of Mance Rayder with Lyanna Stark. He has no rights to the throne of Westeros.

@Lilac & Gooseberries You didn't ask my opinion but I wrote a thorough essay on the subject of Azor Ahai. Dany is Azor Ahai. I don't know about "god's mandate" but she is the heir to Westeros.

There is a chance for freedom for the first time in that part of the world. At least 250K slaves were liberated from their masters. Dany's skills as a leader are already proven. She successfully took a khalasar of old men, women, and children to safety. She rescued more than eight thousand eunuch soldiers from their masters. Jon's inadequacy, on the other hand, has been proven. His short time as the leader of the watch ended in failure. The very damaging consequences of Jon's actions while in command will be seen in the Winds of Winter.

Bravos is also the strongest of the Free Cities. Robert and his attack dogs would not dare attack Braavosi.

Then there is no point for you and I to continue this exchange. We are not going to be able to change each other's mind on this topic. we are both entitled to our opinion. It's alright. cheers

Nothing good was going to come from Jon sending a man of the watch to bring his sister to him. Jon dragged the night's watch into a conflict with the Boltons.

Willem would know from history. Braavos is not easily intimidated. It's a safe place because the Sealord will not give in if Robert should ask for the Targaryens back.

The mess that Jon created when he sent Mance Rayder to get his sister away from the Boltons. That's enough to start a war. Jon should have stayed out of it. And yes, Jon created and left a mess which may be too big for any one person to clean up

The Sealord is the most important person in Braavos. He is on their side. Well, there is no more "their" but on Dany's side. Proven so if those eggs were the same ones that were stolen long ago and he made sure to give them to Daenerys.

Yes, the election was held before the Shield Hall event. Those same people will not be supportive of what he did.

He lives with pain all of the time. It's not hard to believe if his mind is not as sharp as it used to be. Obsessing over getting even doesn't improve his emotional health. Then he has to reign in his blood thirsting relatives to keep them from doing something dumb.

The dragons tolerated this insignificant little guy. But that is not indicative of having even come close to taming or bonding with them. They would have continued to tolerate him if that errant arrow had not been set loose. I like Viserion and Rhaegal almost as much as I like Drogon. I do not blame them for flaming this idiot boy who had thought he had the right.

Jeyne is to Robb what Arya is to Jon Snow. The love interest which led a leader to betray his duties. She has had an important role even if she's not carrying his child. I think you're right about a likely pregnancy. That just turns up the level of drama.