Here's Looking At You, Kid

Daenerys had better reasons to want to take back Westeros compared to Robb and Starks wanting to take the north back from the Ironborn. The Starks rebelled and were dumb enough to send a hostage to negotiate on their behalf. Whereas King Aerys had the right to execute Brandon and Rickard Stark. Barging into someone's house fully armed and making threats will get a person killed even today. Rickard should have begged forgiveness for his son instead of demanding a trial by combat.

How? The Dothraki people are a warrior society. Most able bodied men are warriors. Only the strong survive. In other words, they are fierce warriors whom the other people could not stop. They were unstoppable. Part-time warriors, weekend soldiers, do not stand a chance.

Oaths are taken very seriously by everybody except the worst of people. It is not the job of the Kingsguard to decide who will sit the throne. It is their job to protect the person who has the throne. The Targaryen kings have not deserved to get deposed. Perhaps Aegon IV or Aerys II. But disagreeing with how they do their job, which is not in the job description for a Kingsguard, does not give them the right to remove the king. The king they swore to protect. The king whose life they swore to value above their own. Roose Bolton had better reasons to kill Robb Stark compared to Jaime Lannister. Roose was killing a rebel who had no right to even pretend to be king. The northmen had no right to name him king until they successfully separate the north from Westeros.

The Free Folk are about as bad as the Ironborn. We are not supposed to like them. Look, just because Jon does means nothing. The point of their plot is making common cause with an enemy for the survival of both people. We're not suppose to like them, nor are we to overlook their barbaric ways, but we may need to cooperate with them in order to survive the white walkers. Cooperate long enough to beat the white walkers and then push them back to their side of the wall.

Obviously. He would not want the grandson of his enemy to inherit his throne.

Catelyn is prone to the same self-defense mechanism as many of the folks in Westeros. She was brought up to think herself superior by birth. Family pride, honor, and what have you. Her mind has to justify her actions in those terms even when she does something that doesn't fit. The trouble with honor and morals is at some point you will face a conflict. Do the right thing or do what you feel like. Catelyn felt for her daughters and disobeyed Robb. She felt for Bran and you know, screw the thousands of lives it will mess up, she's going to punish his attacker. Robb Stark is no better. He preferred Jeyne Westerling over the unknown Frey who may not be pretty. He had to make that dishonorable decision fit his sense of self, which is that of an honorable son of a great house, and lie to himself saying he did it for honor. Deep inside, if he has any decency, he would realize that's just an excuse. How one sees oneself is not necessarily the reality. But he had to make the reality (his heinous oath breaking) jive with his sense of self. The Starks and many others stink of hubris. Catelyn and Robb were only acting like the clan. The only perhaps somewhat honest adult Stark is Jon Snow. He knows what oath breaking means, he knows it's taboo, he knows it's very bad, he knows it will hurt many people, but he will knowingly break them in order to help the people he loves and usually (not all the time, he lies to himself too) not deceive himself too much.

Cinnamon Wind

Jon Arryn should have waited it out. Calling his banners to war was rash and irresponsible. It's historical so we already know it ended in disaster. The Baratheons bankrupted the realm. So you can't win with your claim that the rebellion was justified because we already know it turned out.

You are trying to justify the unjustifiable. A war that will kill thousands, hundreds of thousands versus Robert and Eddard. It's not about making an emotional decision. It's about making the best decision to benefit the most people. Or, at the very least, harming the least number of people. Calling the banners to war was irresponsible. Jon Arryn should have given up the boys. The incompetent Baratheons can't even manage one succession. That's incompetence. Robert screwed up the economy. Aerys had a large treasury and the Baratheons squandered it all away.

I disagree. The welfare of the kingdom should be at a higher priority than the lives of two young men. It was an irresponsible decision on the part of Jon Arryn. The Baratheons were so inept they couldn't even handle on succession. To replace a 300-year dynasty with a family who can't even handle one succession competently is not in the best interest of the people.

Giving time makes much more sense than calling the banners and putting the land in a state of war. Most of the people who got killed, say 95% or more, had nothing to do with this feud. Jon Arryn forgot about his responsibility to the masses. Eddard and Robert were not worth the suffering and the casualties that resulted from the rebellion. Attempting to justify a war that killed a lot of innocent people to save two boys is futile.

Prince Viserys was chosen to succeed. We would have had King Viserys, Third of His Name. Jon Arryn should have Fed-Exed those heads to King's Landing. Marked "Fragile, Handle With Care". Receipt confirmation required, thank you very much. He might have sent them to King's Landing alive and let the king pass the sentence. I prefer the second option, send them alive and let Aerys judge them.

They lost control of their kingdom but they didn't lose support. A comparison to the Starks is apt. The Starks lost control of their home but there are still a few who support them in the north. The Starks are a local power and their support is limited to a few men. Wayman Manderly. The Targaryens are an international power and their support is not limited to one location. The Targaryens are the bigger fish; therefore, their so-called power base is bigger than the Stark's.

I said the same thing to Mario Seddy a few days ago. The attempt to smear the Targaryens is not working.