What (not who) is Coldhands?

[Berkilak]

Where does he fit into the cosmology of Planetos? We have wights, we have Others, but he is neither. If anything, he strikes me as more similar to Beric, and especially Cat - he is simply more ancient than either. Granted, I realize that who he is will probably play a factor in learning just what he is, but he has nevertheless struck me as a very out-of-place being in Martin's world, given what we've been exposed to thus far.

[hollowcrown]

He is a Wight given consciousness by Bloodraven.

[Amber Jade]

some of my person theories

1) a warg went into the body of an other

2) the Others have consciousness. they're sentient beings. they have feelings, intelligence, manners, etc. In the very, very, very first scene in the books a man from the Nights Watch gets into a sword fight with one of the Others, while his slightly smarter brother stays hidden in a tree. A bunch more Others crowd around in a circle and wait for the fight to end. They dont just jump out and attack like animals. they stand there politely; showing an understanding of honor, swordsmanship, etc. One bro-ski even marries an Other. Coldhands could just be an outcast, or something.

[Berkilak]

He is a Wight given consciousness by Bloodraven.

I'm not entirely sold on that one, given that Small Paul was brought past the Wall (hah, rhyming!), whereas Coldhands was affected by whatever wards were present. One would think that something would have happened with bringing Paul up there if these wards repel wights in some fashion.

[Amber Jade]

I'm not entirely sold on that one, given that Small Paul was brought past the Wall (hah, rhyming!), whereas Coldhands was affected by whatever wards were present. One would think that something would have happened with bringing Paul up there if these wards repel wights in some fashion.

maybe they dont repel wights because wights are just human corpses, and the others are something different

[hollowcrown]

I'm not entirely sold on that one, given that Small Paul was brought past the Wall (hah, rhyming!), whereas Coldhands was affected by whatever wards were present. One would think that something would have happened with bringing Paul up there if these wards repel wights in some fashion.

Maybe it is the fact that Coldhands has consciousness, desires and hopes. Wights might be very primal creatures on base instinct - to kill and destroy. Coldhands has higher brain functions.

We've also seen Shadow Babies unable to get past the ancient wards in Storm's End...these are more magical beings than Wights, able to act with purpose - maybe the two are connected?

[Amber Jade]

wait wait wait.... im drawing a blank on "shadow babies"............ gotta look that one up

[Amber Jade]

oh nvm

[Gendrys Forge]

I really, really don't care. Coldhands was never interesting to me, I don't understand why everybody is so obsessed with him.

[Berkilak]

I think you mean Othor and Jafer Flowers.

Also, it could well be that they had to physically be brought across the Wall by rangers - kind of like how vampires need permission to enter a house, which explains their state when the rangers find them.

My view is that Coldhands is the CotF equivalent of a wight.

I do. Sorry, got my wight attacks mixed up. And yeah, that's another intriguing view.

[RedShirt47]

As we saw a baby being Otherised on the show.

Could Coldhands be an adult who has been Otherised?

Also will the baby who was Otherised grow up to be a full on White Walker or will he be an Otherised human like Coldhands could be?

I know this is tv specific knowledge but could have book implications.

[Berkilak]

I really, really don't care. Coldhands was never interesting to me, I don't understand why everybody is so obsessed with him.

For me, the same reason Tom Bombadil is intriguing. He just seems slightly out of step with the rest of the world.

[Amber Jade]

As we saw a baby being Otherised on the show.

Could Coldhands be an adult who has been Otherised?

Also will the baby who was Otherised grow up to be a full on White Walker or will he be an Otherised human like Coldhands could be?

I know this is tv specific knowledge but could have book implications.

I try not to use the show for any of my theories.

[Brewmaster]

I think you mean Othor and Jafer Flowers.

Also, it could well be that they had to physically be brought across the Wall by rangers - kind of like how vampires need permission to enter a house, which explains their state when the rangers find them.

My view is that Coldhands is the CotF equivalent of a wight.

I agree that Coldhands is basically a Wight- with some differences related to Bloodraven's influence.

As to the magic blocking him from crossing the wall...Well, the brother's that attacked Jon & Mormont in Castle Black were just corpses when they were brought back. They don't appear to have been Wights yet. That might raise some questions about how they were reanimated from distance, but I don't think the wards would have any effect.

[Berkilak]

I try not to use the show for any of my theories.

It can be difficult not to - we know that the main thrust of the story is going to remain the same, although the details surrounding them can change. Going forward with that assumption, we can assess certain details that were cut or changed as they are relevant to the main storyline(s). For example, Robb's wife probably isn't going to be important later in the story. Martin said as much, but then we find out that she was cut from the show and her replacement overtly killed, showing us how truly inconsequential she was.

As far as we know, virtually anything relating to the Others is going to be very important to the overall narrative of the series. Thus, assuming this particular TV show reveal is integral to the overall TV narrative, we can safely make the assumption that it will be integral to the overall book narrative.

All that being said, we really don't have a place to discuss how the TV show and books might play off of each other. Talk about the books on the TV forum, thread gets deleted, and vice versa, here.

Anyway, at the very least, we can take the TV show's reveal as somewhat of a confirmation of the "Craster's sons" theories that were pretty much dismissed. When his wives overly stated that the boys were being turned into Others, people dismissed that claim as the wishful thinking of abused women. They probably cannot make that dismissal so easily, now.

[robert_was_the_true_steel]

Isn't his description the same as other wights, with the blood congealing in his hands and all? I think he must have started out as a wight and either Bloodraven restored his consciousness to him or is just skinchanging into his body.

[Gendrys Forge]

Kind of wondering why you would go out of your way to post here then.

Is it really that hard to figure out? Wow.

[Berkilak]

Isn't his description the same as other wights, with the blood congealing in his hands and all? I think he must have started out as a wight and either Bloodraven restored his consciousness to him or is just skinchanging into his body.

And he seems kind of bitter about it, too. I actually chuckled. Not sure if that was the intent when he was describing the process of decomposition, but I did laugh at how deadpan he was.

[Amber Jade]

It can be difficult not to - we know that the main thrust of the story is going to remain the same, although the details surrounding them can change. Going forward with that assumption, we can assess certain details that were cut or changed as they are relevant to the main storyline(s). For example, Robb's wife probably isn't going to be important later in the story. Martin said as much, but then we find out that she was cut from the show and her replacement overtly killed, showing us how truly inconsequential she was.

As far as we know, virtually anything relating to the Others is going to be very important to the overall narrative of the series. Thus, assuming this particular TV show reveal is integral to the overall TV narrative, we can safely make the assumption that it will be integral to the overall book narrative.

All that being said, we really don't have a place to discuss how the TV show and books might play off of each other. Talk about the books on the TV forum, thread gets deleted, and vice versa, here.

Anyway, at the very least, we can take the TV show's reveal as somewhat of a confirmation of the "Craster's sons" theories that were pretty much dismissed. When his wives overly stated that the boys were being turned into Others, people dismissed that claim as the wishful thinking of abused women. They probably cannot make that dismissal so easily, now.

its difficult not to use the show in any of my theories simply because i get mixed up and confused :/ I saw the first few season of the show, read the books, then read the first one again, now i'm reading book 2 AND watching the show as it comes out. Its so hard to keep them apart in my head, especially since it covers so many characters/stories/points of view.

[Pib_Juju]

Maybe he's a human who some Other attempted to "turn" by means of that touch. Maybe doing that to an adult human doesn't get rid of their identity, which is why the Others generally only do it to babies (who have no sense of identity).

I have no idea, just spit balling.