Commodore Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 a one time appointment/approval on a fourteen year term could barely be called "public control" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The onion wight Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Yup scot. How are they not under public control? The president appointed its head, who in turn set policies in accord to its public mandates.From the Fed itselfhttp://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_14986.htm"The 12 regional Federal Reserve Banks, which were established by the Congress as the operating arms of the nation's central banking system, are organized similarly to private corporations--possibly leading to some confusion about "ownership." For example, the Reserve Banks issue shares of stock to member banks. However, owning Reserve Bank stock is quite different from owning stock in a private company. The Reserve Banks are not operated for profit, and ownership of a certain amount of stock is, by law, a condition of membership in the System. The stock may not be sold, traded, or pledged as security for a loan; dividends are, by law, 6 percent per year."So the Fed system is owned by its member banks, which includes Bank of America and JPM Chase. Now the Fed argues that they have no control, that it's the government who appoints it's board. However it begs the obvious questions, why do private banks get to own an institution that sets monetary policy for the entire country and why is the central bank of the United States set up to be, legally speaking, a private corporation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The onion wight Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Lev,In the same way that the judiciary is independent. The Fed does not need Congressional or Executive approval to take action on monetary policy.What is interesting though is that the judiciary is the third independent branch of the Federal government expressly described and delinated in the Constitution. The Fed is a Congressional creation that is not a part of the executive branch that can act without direct oversight or control. Therefore, though it is created by Congess it is an indpendent actor. Hence, it is and is not part of government. It's actions are those of a partially private actor because it is independent of direct Congressional or Executive control.Clearly it's not part of government at all, it's a private corporation that's been granted functions of government and in return the government gets to appoint its board of directors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Notorious Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 a one time appointment/approval on a fourteen year term could barely be called "public control" Why not? As matter of policies go, it's a lot more preferable to have our monetary policies decision came from career bureaucrats learned in economics than a bunch of teabaggers in congress. Lev,In the same way that the judiciary is independent. The Fed does not need Congressional or Executive approval to take action on monetary policy. And they shouldn't because that authority was ensured when Congress made it so that the Fed could operate independently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodore Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Why not? As matter of policies go, it's a lot more preferable to have our monetary policies decision came from career bureaucrats learned in economics than a bunch of teabaggers in congress. And they shouldn't because that authority was ensured when Congress made it so that the Fed could operate independently. The notion that unaccountable centralized power is fine if it was ceded away democratically is dubious. Hierarchical systems unaccountable to the public will inevitably be corrupted. Thankfully, technology has provided a safe harbor in the form of cryptocurrencies on distributed networks. Controlled by no one. Just as BitTorrent allows for uncontrolled, unstoppable flow of information, BitCoin will do the same thing for money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Notorious Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Ok commodore. I bet you also bought bitcoin at $1200 lol. Want to buy some tulips? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodore Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Ok commodore. I bet you also bought bitcoin at $1200 lol. Want to buy some tulips? Cold water on BitCoin doesn't bother me, it just keeps the price low in the short term so I can buy more. The investment is based on an understanding of the value of the technology, not anyone's opinion of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Notorious Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Cold water on BitCoin doesn't bother me, it just keeps the price low in the short term so I can buy more. The investment is based on an understanding of the value of the technology, not anyone's opinion of it. I see that you see bitcoin not as a medium of exchange but as a pyramid scheme investment with the last one holding the bag ........... Are you sure you truly understood the value of the technology at all, commodore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The onion wight Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Why not? As matter of policies go, it's a lot more preferable to have our monetary policies decision came from career bureaucrats learned in economics than a bunch of teabaggers in congress. And they shouldn't because that authority was ensured when Congress made it so that the Fed could operate independently.The Fed has always been able to operate independently, before the establishment of the Federal reserve system there had been no central bank since the abolition of the second bank of the United States by Andrew Jackson. The Fed is a private charter bank granted specific powers to issue currency, provide intra bank liquidity and set monetary policy. They are in no way a government institution beyond having their board of directors appointed by the President. The fact most folk believe that the Fed is like the treasury or the Supreme Court tells me how effective their PR is and how civics education has been allowed to lapse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodore Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 I see that you see bitcoin not as a medium of exchange but as a pyramid scheme investment with the last one holding the bag ........... Are you sure you truly understood the value of the technology at all, commodore? investment in the short short term, medium of exchange and store of value in the long term Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Notorious Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 investment in the short short term Congratulation on losing 40% of your investment over about 6 months. I hope you straddled down hard lol. medium of exchange and store of value in the long term But you would have cashed out already by then right? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Notorious Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 They are in no way a government institution beyond having their board of directors appointed by the President. There's your answer. That's a pretty big deal if you bother to examine any typical corporate structure. Also you know, there's this dual mandates and turning all profits to the Treasury Department. So before you lament the state of education in the US, how about trying to get some education yourself yeah? ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The onion wight Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 There's your answer. That's a pretty big deal if you bother to examine any typical corporate structure. Also you know, there's this dual mandates and turning all profits to the Treasury Department. So before you lament the state of education in the US, how about trying to get some education yourself yeah? ;-)Sigh....they're a private corporation therefore they cannot be a part of the government as they, legally, possess personhood. The fact they go out of their way to downplay this speaks volumes. The Fed returns all operating profits to the treasury true, after they've paid out their mandated 6% dividend to their shareholders! I.e. their owners (clue that's not the United States government). I'm not sure why it's seen as controversial to state this, it's all on the Federal Reserves own website, have a look yourself. You seem to be arguing that the Fed is a government department like the Treasury which is complete rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Notorious Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 You seem to be arguing that the Fed is a government department like the Treasury which is complete rubbish. I think you fail at reading comprehension as well as economics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodore Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Congratulation on losing 40% of your investment over about 6 months. I hope you straddled down hard lol. But you would have cashed out already by then right? ;) Cashing out makes no sense in a scenario where it is a universally adopted currency. BitCoin serves as both the medium of exchange and the store of value. It's a paradigm that's hard to get one's mind around when all we have known is perpetually depreciating fiat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The onion wight Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 I think you fail at reading comprehension as well as economics."Why not? As matter of policies go, it's a lot more preferable to have our monetary policies decision came from career bureaucrats learned in economics than a bunch of teabaggers in congress."A bureaucrat is someone who works for the government, Fed officials work for a private corporation, so yeah I'm comprehending you just fine. Perhaps read what you post before clicking on the button? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The onion wight Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Cashing out makes no sense in a scenario where it is a universally adopted currency. BitCoin serves as both the medium of exchange and the store of value. It's a paradigm that's hard to get one's mind around when all we have known is perpetually depreciating fiat.I'll be honest and say I'm with Notorious when it comes to Bitcoin. Looks like a pyramid selling scheme to me. The only folks making money are the early adopters/creators, scammers and the folks selling the equipment to mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Notorious Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 A bureaucrat is someone who works for the government Precisely. There's a reason why Congress set the salary of the members of the Fed Board of Governors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodore Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 I'll be honest and say I'm with Notorious when it comes to Bitcoin. Looks like a pyramid selling scheme to me. The only folks making money are the early adopters/creators, scammers and the folks selling the equipment to mine. Bitcoin empowering the third world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Notorious Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 So would debt forgiveness ..... you on board with that commodore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.