How not Starve: Agriculture, Trade and All That

[Olligarchy]

So far we've discussed armies, navies, cities and every possible scenario available, but I do not believe we've discussed how the internal economy of Westeros works... at least not in detail.

Westeros is indeed a vast, incredibly vast in fact Kingdom that has two obvious breadbaskets: The Riverlands surrounding the Trident and the vast and fertile Reach. We know from the books and more than a few references made my Martin himself that the vast majority of food, wine and other produce comes from these two regions, with Gold, Silver and other minerals being provided by the Westerlands. We also know that the Arbor, Oldtown, Lannisport, Iron Islands, and the Royal navy situated on Dragonstone have to get their wood from somewhere... presumably from the Kingswood.

So what do the other regions produce? The North seems like a positive goldmine and could easily supply vast amounts of lumber, stone and other 'mundane' goods that are necessary for a feudal economy to function. The Dornish main export (in addition to their excellent Red) seems to be sexy people, but surely even they have to have something else that they produce?

...Then we have the Stormlands and Iron Islands who are flat out said to be poor as hell....

So what do you guys think. What do each of the Seven Kingdoms produce, how useful is it and are any of them capable of surviving 'on their own' as self-sufficient kingdoms after 300 years of rule from the Iron Throne?

[joluoto2]

We got some insight of the situation in the Vale in the Sansa chapter recently released.

The Vale had a good autumn harvest, and have a grain surplus right now. The other lords are Selling it because the prize is good, but Littlefinger is hoarding the excess grain knowing the prize will grow even higher.

[Olligarchy]

That's an interesting tidbit joluoto2. Seems that a good harvest in the Vale is more than enough to feed the populace, shore up for winter and even with leftovers to sell. That would likely put the Vale among the more self-sufficient list. A bit surprising given they're mostly mountains, but clearly those lands are more fertile than one could expect!

[Bright Blue Eyes]

You're overestimating the extent food can be traded (and is traded) in Westeros.

The only viable way to transport bulky stuff like food is by ship. Which limits both the production places and the consumer to about 20-30 miles from navigable rivers at most.

Luxury goods like wine or citrus fruits, yes. But 95% of all food has to be produced locally. Each and any kingdom will be self-sufficient.

[Olligarchy]

I'm overestimating nothing. :p

I'm fully aware of the usage of rivers as arteries for trade and that ships are the only way to transport even token amounts of goods, but frankly speaking it's a bit... suspect that all of the Kingdoms are self-sufficient; especially when we're flat out told that the Riverlands and Reach make the bulk of their income from selling their produce. In Reach's case we could buy it being mostly wine since that Arbor Gold seems to appear on pretty much every scene, but we've been given no reason to assume the Rivermen are producing anything, but the very staples of cuisine.

Then again I don't expect their food would be transported beyond the Westerlands - Vale - Crownlands axis.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Well, the Riverlands are called that particular name for a reason :cheers:

It's the customers who have the problem of being limited to harbours and such. Probably mainly KL and its surroundings.

[Olligarchy]

Makes sense. It would actually be worth considering the cities... places like King's Landing, Lannisport and Gulltown which are all vast metropolises by the standards of the age are going to consume a lot of food. It's likely that the Riverlands and Reach gain most of their income by actually feeding these places. We saw how desperate things got in King's Landing after just a few months of the Riverlands being aflame and Reach rebelling too.

[Poodle Pup From Astapor]

It's a good question. I guess that Crownlands would be the only place to suffer and lose a lot of people in the long run, if it got isolated. Other kingdoms should be pretty self sufficient, but they trade surplus of what they have for stuff they'd rather have.

Iron Islands -- iron, tin, probably salted / dried fish, some luxury goods, like the best armor, weapons and other metalsmithing products in Westeros, maybe amber, but I'm fishing with the last one.

North -- silver, probably wood, probably especially rare expensive types of wood, maybe hides, maybe amber. Also, seas on both sides of the North are the richest in that world, but I'm not sure if the North is taking advantage of that at all.

Westerlands -- gold, jewelry.

Vale, Riverlands, Reach -- grains and other agriculture products, especially wine from Reach

Dorne -- wine, olives, citrus fruits. They like spicey food, so they must be producing some sort of spices too.

Stormlands -- wood, hides, amber? They have big forests. Their main trading port is a few hundreds miles from Dorne. Dorne lacks forest products. I guess their trade might be centered around that.

Crownlands -- I guess armor, weapons, whatever other luxury goods King's Landing might be producing. Maybe wood and other forest products from Kingswood. Crownlands have fertile lands, and there's fishing too, but I imagine such products are all consumed locally, plus they need to import more.

[Lord of the Vale]

The North have:

A lot of lumber and i think they sell A lot of it to bravos

Silver mines around WH

The North have rich fishing watters and they fish A lot

The north also trade in furs and hides

The North have mineral ressourses avside from silver, like iron or copper.

I think the north also exsport A lot of wool(the sheperds hills)

The ryswells semes good at breding horses so they migth exsport some of them.

And of course they have A lot of framland and thats the norths and all the other regions with the exseption of IS economical backbone.