The Book of the New Sun

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

More Sandkings  stuff.  I figured out why there is the desert/sand theme

 

cras / crasu / cres / cresu  means "parched, dry, heat" in Welsh and it also means "roasted" (like in satire, and the story is satire about religion)

and parch means "to worship" in Welsh  and parc mean "an enclosure" in Welsh

mawl  means "to worship" in Welsh

crisial  means "glass" and Cress keeps the Sandkings in a glass aquarium enclosure filled with parched, dry sand, and they worship Cress.

 

cres means "inflaming" and "between" and Cress inflames relations between the Sandking factions

mawrth (~martin) means "Mars like, martial" and Cress makes the Sandkings war against each other.

 

maw means "expanding" in Welsh and the Maw is a gelatinous creature that can encompass any food, and grows to fit its environment.

mawrio (mario) means "to enlarge, to magnify" and Cress watches the Sandkings through a magnifying lens, and then the Sandkings keep getting larger.

mawr means "great, exalted"

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

Just browsing the Welsh and Gaelic dictionaries for words related to "worship" or "church" or "god" and found some stuff:

 

Damien from The Way of Cross and Dragon is a Knight Inquisitor and he wants to resign his position but he is not allowed to  quit the church.

In Gaelic Dia-Mhaoin (~Damien) means "church property" and directly adjacent to that is a word that means "persecutor, pursuer" and right above it is a word that means "blasphemy"  and Damien is an inquisitor and belongs to the church and persecutes blasphemy.

and above and below that are diamhar / diamhair  / diamair (Damien Har Veris) which means "mysterious, hermit, secretive, dark, black" 

And veris means "truth" in Latin, and the story is about learning the dark truth that life has no meaning and faith in god is a comforting lie. 

Diamhair / damhair means "zeal, zealous" (Damphair)  (and duthracht also means "zeal")

deimin means "certainty" and Damien has no faith in the Church. 

 

And marten  means Judas. 

 

------

Cthulhu name origin stuff

cythraul--"the devil, satan, the destroyer", and the etymology suggests it is related the the word "Wall" and in the Book of the New Sun, the Wall keeps out the Cthulhu entities Erebus and Abaia and their thralls.  And in ASoIaF, the Wall keeps out the Night King and his thralls.

cythreul-- which means "demon, demonism, demon worship, devilship"  Cthulhu is a devil and he gets rammed by a ship.

reilig / rolaig means "church grave yard, tomb, sepulchre" and is right above rolair

 

The fish-frog people Innsmouth and Dagon serve Cthulhu, and Cthulhu himself is described as gelatinous, sticky frogspawn/star spawn/ sgeith

Cthulhu is a cuttlefish, and in Gaelic the word for "cuttlefish, octopus" is the same as "fish-frog, devil fish" gubarnach

 

 

 

creiniog means "frog" in Welsh and the Crannogmen are frogs.

 

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

I found a ton of name and plot origin stuff for The Way of Cross and Dragon  (if you haven't read it yet, it is one of George's best short stories, and it is only an hour long   full-text audio)

 

John Azure Cross

John Azure Cross is a giant telepathic fetus that is kept in a water tank, and he helps Lukyan to invent the Judas mythology.

 

In the Norse dictionary  mordr = "marten" / "back-slider" / "Judas" *  Martin is synonymous with Judas.

In Dinneen's Gaelic the word for "back-slider" is the same word as "foetus"    --feacaide  [also looks like the word "facade"]

and directly above that is a word that means "seer"   --feacadoir

and several other words above and below that mean "to observe, to examine, to study, to diagnose"

 

And John Azure Cross is a telepathic fetus who invents the Judas cult after closely studying the society on Arion to determine what religion would fit the society. 

 

gin  [John] means "foetus"

gann  means "short, stunted, deficient" 

two words beginning with asar-- [Azure] mean "magician, divination, conjurer" (asarlaidhe, asarlaidhedeact)

and Cross as in the Holy Cross, and in Gaelic crosta  means "crooked, perverse, mischievous"

 

I had never noticed the parallel between Torgathon and John Azure Cross, they are both hideous creatures in tanks of water that invent and destroy faiths, and they both use regular humans to carry out their work, with Lukyan and Damien.  And I noticed for the first time the Order of Saint Judas parallels the Esoteric Order of Dagon of the fish people from Innsmouth.  And that mitered hats of the Catholic clergy look like fish mouths.

 

*(just realized that Sauron lives in Mordor and he the Judas-archetype that was one of god's apostles and betrayed god, and the name Judas is synonymous with "betrayer") 

 

 

Torgathon Nine-Klariis Tûn

toirceas  also means "foetus" in Gaelic as well as "to conceive, to fertilize"

 

tairngeartaighe  means "the Messiah, the prophesied one"  (which I only just realized means "the nailed one" because tairngealta  means "nailed to" in Gaelic, so Jon Snow being the Long-Clawed one might make him "the nailed one")

taircheadal / toircheadal  means "prophecy, prophet"

 

Lukyan tells Damien that he thinks the Gospels were written by men like him and John Azure Cross, and words that sound like Torgathon means "the Messiah" and "the prophet"--implying that George does think Christianity was invented in the same manner as the Judas cult, in this case by someone like Torgathon.

 

the "S" in Gaelic looks like an "R" so taisrighathe looks like

tairrighathe  which means "dampness, perspiring"  [and Toragthon's receiving chamber is very damp and causes Damien to sweat profusely]

torcarthaige  means "waif-strewn of the sea" 

torcar  means "an abortion"  [and in Gaelic "abortion" is synonymous with "dwarfed creature"]

torathar  means "monster"

torcaire  mentions "outcast" and "monster" and "sea-waif"  [he is one of the very few ka-Thane to join the church, and he is a sea monster]

 

toireacha  means "to pursue, to seek" [he is the Grand Inquisitor]

tuir  means "investigating"  [he is the Grand Inquisitor]

gaothan  means "wind bag" [and Torgathon "would lecture you for an hour if given the chance"]

gaothaire  means "vent hole" [and Torgathon has a blow hole]

 

 

nean-- [~Nine] means "stinging, venomous, peevish"

claireac [~Klariis] means "cleric, clergy" in Gaelic

tuan  [~Tun] means "advanced in years, long-lived" and Torgathon is 200 years old.

 

And Torgathon Nine-Klariis Tûn is a very old clergyman, who Damien is disgusted by. 

 Torgathon is of the ka-Thane alien race,  ciotan  means "sinister" or "left-handed" and also means "cunning, creative" and  "helpless" and "crippled"

 cuithean  means "fish" and cuithe  means "deep moist place" and cuite  means "head" and cithean  means "grumbling"

[So more Innsmouth / Dagon / Sarnath  references.]

 

 

 

Lukyan Mo / Judasson

Lukyan calls himself First Scholar of the Order of Saint Judas

leigeann  means "scholar, learned man" in Gaelic, and in Gaelic "scholar" is synonymous with "prophet" (like with the words faid or fatach or fios)  And this story is about Faith

Mo  means "me, myself" in Gaelic, and "big, great"

and as I said above marten means Judas

So George is saying that he is Lukyan Judasson.

 

 

Arion is described as a "pleasant, gentle word" where life is kind, and they value beauty and aesthetics.

aeraighe  means "pleasant, fond of pleasure"

aireag  means "invention, cleverness"

aoire  means "satire"

 

Amaddon  amadan means "fool" 

 

 

Damien's pilot is named Arla-k-Bau

baoth means "fool, foolish"

and airle means "council" [and she advises Damien]

airleogac  means "flight, flighty" [and she is a pilot]

[Alester Florent]

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I'm pleased with myself for identifying this as a ChatGPT-generated post within two lines.

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

When I was looking up Arion words I found some strong evidence to support the theory that Arthur Dayne is Mance Rayder

So "Mance Rayder" is an anagram of "dayne camerr" and camaoir  means "Dawn" in Gaelic

 

airgtheoir  [Arthur] means "plunderer, spoiler"  which is synonymous with "Raider"

airightheoir [Arthur] means "observer, a listener, one who feels, perceives"

radarc  [Rayder] means "vision, eyesight, observant, wisdom"  [this is where the word "radar" comes from]

 

Thematically, King Arthur unites the people, and King Mance Rayder unites the people Beyond the Wall. 

duno / dyuno  means to "unite" in Welsh  and daoine  means "the people" in Gaelic and duin means "manse" in Gaelic

 

Beyond the Wall  is a metaphor for "in the Otherworld, afterlife" / "the dead" as the Wall is the barrier between life and death. 

manes means "ghosts of the dead" in Latin and mane means "dawn" and mance means "to free"  [just occurred to me that there might be a "dawn of the dead" reference here]

 

Mance unites the Dead beyond the Wall, and brings them into the world of the living.

 

and cam  means "blind" and "tricky, deceitful" and "blind in one eye"   Mance is a master of disguise and there is an Odin reference with the One-Eye, and Mance's raven helm.  And Odin gathered an army of the Undead at Val-halla (wall hall) to unleash at Ragnarok, but they were the good guys. 

 

riadaire  [Rayder] means "a cunning old fellow"

airithe  means "special" and the first usage note is duine airithe [Dayne Arth]  "special man"

 

art means "stone, rock" and "champion, noble, great, bear"

arth / urth means "bear" in Welsh and in Gaelic bear  means "invader"  [raider]

dwyn means "bear" in Welsh and dal  means "bear" and Mance married Dalla
 

 

reodh means "frost" 

radaire / radaireacht means "wanderer, night-walker"  [radaireacht is where the name Royd Eris from Night-Flyers came from]

rheidyr means "knight, rider" and manes means "ghosts of the dead"
 

The White Walkers are made of frost, and they are night-walkers who can only come out at night and they are Ghost Knights.

 

rheiddio  means "to shine, to beam, to cast rays"

 

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

Raising of the dead is necromancy, and in the 1888 Oxford English Dictionary, it gives the etymology as

necro = "Black", mance = "Art"

 

Arthur took the black,  and became Black Mance, the necromancer.

 

And then he goes Beyond the Wall and raises the army of the dead.

 

ETA: it just occurred to me that if mane means "dawn" then Black Mance is a Black Sun reference also.

Edited March 7, 2023 by By Odin's Beard

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

I figured out where the name for the Liars came from in the Way of Cross and Dragon.

 

Recall that Lukyan's name means "scholar, learned man, reader" in Gaelic (leigeann)

lleawr, -orion  [sounds like "liar" as the "w" in Welsh is an "oo"] means "a reader, a lecturer" in Welsh, and the story takes place on Arion, and Lukyan lectures Damien about religion., and Lukyan is First Scholar.  So Lukyan and Liar are synonymous.

lire  means "to read, to study" in French

and in Gaelic several words that start with leir--  mean "to study, to make clear"  (leirighim, leirighthe, leiriughadh)  [Lirianne's name from A Night at the Tarn House probably comes from this too, as she gives lots of exposition about what caused the sun to go out and why the Earth is dying]

 

and most importantly leire  means "a man of sturdy build" in Gaelic (and the first lyres were made from turtle shells, and George loves turtles, and Torgathon is a giant turtle alien, and Torgathon is a Liar in his own way)

Lukyan Mo/Judasson is George, as Mo means "me" and Judas means "marten", and George is a man of sturdy build.  And he considers himself a learned man. 

 

lleadur  also means "to read, to lecture" and the Liars are the leaders of religious movements.

 

Lleain  also means "to read" and Lyanna from A Song for Lya was a mind reader.

llen / llenwr [~Lenore] also mean "literary man, learned man"

 

and lear  means "vision, sight, light, clear" in Gaelic 

Edited March 10, 2023 by Ennis Cupps

[nimlot]

On 3/7/2023 at 5:31 PM, Fun Guy from Yuggoth said:

When I was looking up Arion words I found some strong evidence to support the theory that Arthur Dayne is Mance Rayder

So "Mance Rayder" is an anagram of "dayne camerr" and camaoir  means "Dawn" in Gaelic

 

airgtheoir  [Arthur] means "plunderer, spoiler"  which is synonymous with "Raider"

airightheoir [Arthur] means "observer, a listener, one who feels, perceives"

radarc  [Rayder] means "vision, eyesight, observant, wisdom"  [this is where the word "radar" comes from]

 

Thematically, King Arthur unites the people, and King Mance Rayder unites the people Beyond the Wall. 

duno / dyuno  means to "unite" in Welsh  and daoine  means "the people" in Gaelic and duin means "manse" in Gaelic

 

Beyond the Wall  is a metaphor for "in the Otherworld, afterlife" / "the dead" as the Wall is the barrier between life and death. 

manes means "ghosts of the dead" in Latin and mane means "dawn" and mance means "to free"  [just occurred to me that there might be a "dawn of the dead" reference here]

 

Mance unites the Dead beyond the Wall, and brings them into the world of the living.

 

and cam  means "blind" and "tricky, deceitful" and "blind in one eye"   Mance is a master of disguise and there is an Odin reference with the One-Eye, and Mance's raven helm.  And Odin gathered an army of the Undead at Val-halla (wall hall) to unleash at Ragnarok, but they were the good guys. 

 

riadaire  [Rayder] means "a cunning old fellow"

airithe  means "special" and the first usage note is duine airithe [Dayne Arth]  "special man"

 

art means "stone, rock" and "champion, noble, great, bear"

arth / urth means "bear" in Welsh and in Gaelic bear  means "invader"  [raider]

dwyn means "bear" in Welsh and dal  means "bear" and Mance married Dalla
 

 

reodh means "frost" 

radaire / radaireacht means "wanderer, night-walker"  [radaireacht is where the name Royd Eris from Night-Flyers came from]

rheidyr means "knight, rider" and manes means "ghosts of the dead"
 

The White Walkers are made of frost, and they are night-walkers who can only come out at night and they are Ghost Knights.

 

rheiddio  means "to shine, to beam, to cast rays"

 

I am all for it. I don't actually like the idea that much because I can't see the logic behind the narrative. And I can't imagine Arthur doing all this stuff Mance does, but again we know almost nothing about Arthur. Also there is one contradiction: Arthur's camps were orderly and Mance's chaotic. But maybe even this is a clue. 

But some elements around Mance are definitely connected with Arthur. Especially and his fight with Jon Snow while he was concealed as Rattleshirt. And if he and Jon are related (uncle or father) then the scene is so cool. 

 

[Ser Arthurs Dawn]

On 4/17/2023 at 11:19 AM, nimlot said:

I am all for it. I don't actually like the idea that much because I can't see the logic behind the narrative. And I can't imagine Arthur doing all this stuff Mance does, but again we know almost nothing about Arthur. Also there is one contradiction: Arthur's camps were orderly and Mance's chaotic. But maybe even this is a clue. 

But some elements around Mance are definitely connected with Arthur. Especially and his fight with Jon Snow while he was concealed as Rattleshirt. And if he and Jon are related (uncle or father) then the scene is so cool. 

 

Hehe every time I hear the Mance = Arthur theory I go full Will Smith. Keep my husband's name..outta yo damn mouth! Not that I hate the theory, I think it could be true. But for reasons unknown to even myself, I just don't like Mance very much.  I'm not opposed to Jon being the son of a Dayne though.

Edited May 19, 2023 by Ser Arthurs Dawn

[Smoke317]

On 4/17/2023 at 12:19 PM, nimlot said:

I am all for it. I don't actually like the idea that much because I can't see the logic behind the narrative. And I can't imagine Arthur doing all this stuff Mance does, but again we know almost nothing about Arthur. Also there is one contradiction: Arthur's camps were orderly and Mance's chaotic. But maybe even this is a clue. 

But some elements around Mance are definitely connected with Arthur. Especially and his fight with Jon Snow while he was concealed as Rattleshirt. And if he and Jon are related (uncle or father) then the scene is so cool. 

 

Arthur’s camps were orderly in the South because he was dealing with disciplined knights & soldiers.  He’s had to adapt to how the Free Folk live since joining them.  They are much more chaotic and less structured. But somehow Mance (Arthur) has still found a way to do the impossible and unite all of them.

And I think if Arthur believes in the prophecy of Jon being the promised prince, he would willingly go North and begin the process of uniting the Wildlings.  Basically establishing Jon’s army in the War for the Dawn.   Imo, I think it also sets up the strong possibility that Mance sent the pink letter in an effort to entice Jon to bring the Wildling army to Winterfell where he will eventually reveal to Jon his true lineage down in the crypts of Winterfell.  

I think the Daynes are caretakers of Dawn and the chosen protectors of the Promised Prince(s).  Ashara chose to go with Aegon as a caretaker under the guise of Lemore or she could be Quaithe guiding Danaerys, and Arthur chose to go up North with Jon.  
 

Part of me still thinks (hopes) Dawn is in Lyanna’s tomb and Mance (Arthur) is gonna reveal to him his destiny as the one who will bring the Dawn.   How cool would it be to see Mance training Jon in how to use a 2 handed Greatsword?  But what if the twist is that “the promised prince” was actually a promise made to the Others that they would be given a Prince who would become their King and the Children & Men reneged on the deal? That could be why they tested Waymar in the prologue. To see if he was their Promised One.  He wasn’t.  Jon with Dawn will pass the test and will ultimately make the sacrifice and become the True Nights King or King of the Others and lead them back to the Lands of Always Winter.

Edited May 22, 2023 by Smoke317

[nimlot]

On 5/22/2023 at 4:02 AM, Smoke317 said:

Arthur’s camps were orderly in the South because he was dealing with disciplined knights & soldiers.  He’s had to adapt to how the Free Folk live since joining them.  They are much more chaotic and less structured. But somehow Mance (Arthur) has still found a way to do the impossible and unite all of them.

And I think if Arthur believes in the prophecy of Jon being the promised prince, he would willingly go North and begin the process of uniting the Wildlings.  Basically establishing Jon’s army in the War for the Dawn.   Imo, I think it also sets up the strong possibility that Mance sent the pink letter in an effort to entice Jon to bring the Wildling army to Winterfell where he will eventually reveal to Jon his true lineage down in the crypts of Winterfell.  

I think the Daynes are caretakers of Dawn and the chosen protectors of the Promised Prince(s).  Ashara chose to go with Aegon as a caretaker under the guise of Lemore or she could be Quaithe guiding Danaerys, and Arthur chose to go up North with Jon.  
 

Part of me still thinks (hopes) Dawn is in Lyanna’s tomb and Mance (Arthur) is gonna reveal to him his destiny as the one who will bring the Dawn.   How cool would it be to see Mance training Jon in how to use a 2 handed Greatsword?  But what if the twist is that “the promised prince” was actually a promise made to the Others that they would be given a Prince who would become their King and the Children & Men reneged on the deal? That could be why they tested Waymar in the prologue. To see if he was their Promised One.  He wasn’t.  Jon with Dawn will pass the test and will ultimately make the sacrifice and become the True Nights King or King of the Others and lead them back to the Lands of Always Winter.

Thanks for pointing this out. It would totally be more difficult to organize wildlings even not orderly, but somehow he did it. 

I am also inclined to believe that Mance wrote the Pink Letter. I like the Cantuse's theory on it.

[Lucas020]

The comparison between Wolfe's and Tolkien's approach to narrative has sparked intriguing discussions about the intertwining nature of literature and time. While both authors employed the notion of possessing ancient manuscripts, their distinctive styles and thematic nuances set them apart. For students exploring such complex literary themes, seeking narrative essay writing help can provide invaluable guidance in dissecting these intricate storytelling techniques and crafting insightful analyses.