battle at summerhall

[GZ Bloodraven]

11 hours ago, direpupy said:

There is your problem, you are they only one who feels this way, so maybe you should consider that you are wrong.

I'm clearly not the only one who thinks that the show-universe is a canon ASOIAF universe. You may disagree that show-created characters are potentially canon for the books, but you basically can't disagree with the idea that the shows, executive produced by George, are canon. 

11 hours ago, direpupy said:

Yes it is unreasonable seeing who much George distanced himself from the show in they end and has repeatedly stated they are two different entities.

In the end, yes, but not in the beginning, where he wrote four pretty incredible episodes. They are obviously different stories and different canons, but each stories "gaps" leave plenty of room for potentially canon stuff, whether Euron abusing Aeron in the show, or Talisa being Malaquo's daughter in the books. I don't want the, admitted by George, superior characterization of Paddy Considine's Viserys (or even Randyll Tarly's brother) to be lost in this canonical gap just because they aren't elaborated on in the books. If there is contradicting information, such as Tyene Sand being Ellaria's daughter, book canon is obviously book canon. 

9 hours ago, The hairy bear said:

We know that, although his opinion was listened to, he didn't say the final say on anything. We know that he disagreed with B&B in several adaptation choices. We know that, particularly on later seasons, his voice was ignored to the point that he did no longer contribute on the final seasons. We know that, even when he was contributing with scripts, whatever he wrote had to fit within B&B ideas of the show. And we know that they tampered with George's scripts (as everybody else's) and added material that wasn't his.

Except the 5% of the scripts that he wrote for the show. Those scripts, in their pure form if you think D&D changed them beyond repair, are from George. He obviously disagreed with much of the ending and the trimming, fine, and much of his story does and will contradict the presentation in the show, fine, but that doesn't mean the show enters some unspecified canonical fanfiction territory. Stan Lee did not have intentional and specific creative control over Tom Holland's Spider-Man, but it would be ludicrous to suggest that Tom Holland's Spider-Man was as canon as my unpublished fanfiction about Spider-Man, which it seems like most people who say "book is book, show is show" do with the TV show material that was written by George (specifically the Robb and Talisa conversation). 

[direpupy]

10 hours ago, GZ Bloodraven said:

I'm clearly not the only one who thinks that the show-universe is a canon ASOIAF universe. You may disagree that show-created characters are potentially canon for the books, but you basically can't disagree with the idea that the shows, executive produced by George, are canon. 

Yes you are, nobody in this tread agreed with you so its clear you are in fact they only one, no matter how much you try and deny it.

10 hours ago, GZ Bloodraven said:

In the end, yes, but not in the beginning, where he wrote four pretty incredible episodes. They are obviously different stories and different canons, but each stories "gaps" leave plenty of room for potentially canon stuff, whether Euron abusing Aeron in the show, or Talisa being Malaquo's daughter in the books. I don't want the, admitted by George, superior characterization of Paddy Considine's Viserys (or even Randyll Tarly's brother) to be lost in this canonical gap just because they aren't elaborated on in the books. If there is contradicting information, such as Tyene Sand being Ellaria's daughter, book canon is obviously book canon.

The highlighted portion is the problem you don't want nobody cares wat you want.  The fact is they are two different things and talisa is show-canon but not book-canon and there is no such thing as potetialy canon because George has distanced himself from the show, when he did that is irrelevant, he did and with it any chance of something crossing over ended with it.

As for you draging Paddy Considine into this, different show different situation and it shows how desperate you are becoming to hold on to your idea of a potentialy canon category even do this idea is very much your own fiction.

[BlackfyreCavalier]

On 3/27/2023 at 9:59 AM, nik854866 said:

Did randyll tarly had a son that died in the battle from robert  baratheon told baristan selmy?

No. When Robert says he killed a Tarly boy, "Tarly boy" doesn't mean "male member of House Tarly". It means a young squire/man-at-arms wearing House Tarly colors in the battle. 

[GZ Bloodraven]

10 hours ago, direpupy said:

Yes you are, nobody in this tread agreed with you so its clear you are in fact they only one, no matter how much you try and deny it.

If you think that the show-canon and some random fanfiction are equally canon, go ahead, I can't stop you. 

11 hours ago, direpupy said:

The highlighted portion is the problem you don't want nobody cares wat you want.  The fact is they are two different things and talisa is show-canon but not book-canon and there is no such thing as potetialy canon because George has distanced himself from the show, when he did that is irrelevant, he did and with it any chance of something crossing over ended with it.

Basically the entire universe "crossed over." The show universe is ultimately a reduced book universe character-wise, except for a couple minor spots (Talisa Maegyr, Karsi, Kinvara, and, to get back to the point of the thread, Randyll Tarly's brother).

11 hours ago, direpupy said:

As for you draging Paddy Considine into this, different show different situation and it shows how desperate you are becoming to hold on to your idea of a potentialy canon category even do this idea is very much your own fiction.

Not a different situation, the entire show universe is one universe, George has said this, and the show universe has its own canon separate from the book universe, but that leaves this canonical "gap" between things in the book that are not contradicted in the show, and things in the show that are not contradicted by the books. What do you do with that gap? Your answer seems to be "there is no gap, George said they are fundamentally different, we leave it at that." And that's a reasonable answer, except I don't think he said they are fundamentally different universes, just fundamentally different stories, which leaves us to question about the difference in universe (616 vs 838 type stuff). I think another reasonable answer is that the universes are similar enough to have potentially canon details not elaborated on in cross-medium material be considered potentially canon, or "not elaborated on" or "not on stage" or some other distinct category for these instances of character and plot. That also seems like a reasonable response. 

[direpupy]

12 hours ago, GZ Bloodraven said:

If you think that the show-canon and some random fanfiction are equally canon, go ahead, I can't stop you. 

Its not random fan-fiction MUSH and the worldbook have actual input from george who also wrote most of the worldbook, and unlike the show he did not distance himself from it and call it a seperate thing. So yes they are more canon than a autor disavowed show.

[direpupy]

12 hours ago, GZ Bloodraven said:

Not a different situation, 

It is beacuse he has not disavowed house of the dragon, so the comparison goes lame.

12 hours ago, GZ Bloodraven said:

That also seems like a reasonable response. 

No its not but i wish you good luck with your fan-fiction of a potentionaly canon category, you have convinced no one and are alone in your opinion, the fact you can not admit that you are wrong or even say that you are most likely wrong leaving a caviate for yourself is telling as to the sheer arogance you have displayed in this tread.

[GZ Bloodraven]

10 hours ago, direpupy said:

Its not random fan-fiction MUSH and the worldbook have actual input from george who also wrote most of the worldbook, and unlike the show he did not distance himself from it and call it a seperate thing. So yes they are more canon than a autor disavowed show.

George wrote 5% of the show and is involved with all the show-universe projects, to say that he's "disavowed" the show-universe when he's executive producing Hotd and Akotsk, idk. 

10 hours ago, direpupy said:

It is beacuse he has not disavowed house of the dragon, so the comparison goes lame.

The whole thing is one universe. He said this in the History of Westeros interview: show-canon and book-canon are seperate, but show-canon is entirely self-contained, and some of the things in HotD show-canon are potentially book-canon in that the book doesn't give the entire world and all the details. 

10 hours ago, direpupy said:

No its not but i wish you good luck with your fan-fiction of a potentionaly canon category, you have convinced no one and are alone in your opinion, the fact you can not admit that you are wrong or even say that you are most likely wrong leaving a caviate for yourself is telling as to the sheer arogance you have displayed in this tread.

If you think me wanting to recognize the shows that George is developing and executive producing as canon is because of "sheer arrogance," please go ahead, but you have just poo-pooed probably the last television work that George will have a direct hand in as a non-canon unrelated side-universe because you don't like four seasons of a show, ignoring the first half that George wrote scripts for. That seems like arrogance.