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Ser King

The Game of Thrones ADWD spoilers

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[quote name='Winter Crow' post='1575480' date='Nov 3 2008, 11.45']When I said that the Umbers [b]might[/b] be turncloaks, I refered partly to the spoiler chapter, and partly to the fact that for some odd reason, the Greatjon is left [b]alive[/b] after the red wedding. It makes no sense. Catelyn was killed, and shy only killed a half-wit, but the Greatjon killed 3 men (as far as I remember) before being taken down, and that only to prison...

I'm not saying that the Greatjon or the Smalljon where traitors. I loved those two. They definitely were loyal to the very last, and the Greatjon is such a cool character.
But it seems to me that his two uncles might have stricken a deal with Bolton (or Frey), since the Greatjon was left alive. I think they did it so that he would remain to rule The Last Hearth. I seem to recall Ser Rodrik (or maybe it was Maester Luwin) saying that both Whoresbane and Crowfood was hated by the small folk at some point.

@freakinmayhew: Sounds like a very interresting idea! I hadn't thought about Daeny being undertaken by "The Taint" as Ser Barristan so colorfully names it. It would be a briliant plot twist.[/quote]Most of the important wedding guests were left alive, remember when Jaime tells that Frey that he will surrender all of lord walder's prisoners to him. The frey is outraged because they were meant to be ransomed. I think they were left alive mostly for money.

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I think that in the end, there will be a great conflict between the north and the south, and that each side will have both good and bad people on it, thus creating the "song of ice and fire" that the series promises. I imagine something like this:

North:
Arryn, Stark, the Ironborn, Tyrell, Tully, with Jon, Bran Uncat, little finger, sansa banded together.

VS

South
Targs (Dany), Baratheon, Dorne, Lannister and Frey with Stannis, Dany, Ayra, Tyrion, Jaime and the Queen of thorns banded together.

So no matter which side wins or loose, it will be tragic for both good and bad people will die since there will be no clear good nor evil side, on a Martin fashion. I also think that the Starks will have learned from their previous mistakes and that they will turn into one of the most cruel, honor-less and vicious contenders of the fringue. About the houses that will emerge victorious, I think that the Freys and Stark will destroy each other, that the Lannisters have created too many enemies so they will be destroyed as well, and that the less directly involved on the conflict a faction is, the more it will gain advantage (as it tends to happen in real wars). Also, I am pretty sure that any faction under the leadership of littlefinger will end up being victorious, period (Arryns). And I do not think that Dany will make too much aof a triumphal return. She knows very little of the political situation at westeros, and has some ideas which might collide frontally with his subdits as it happened back in Ghys.

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Maybe I'm trying to see the bigger picture here, but I don't think the threat of the Others is going to be swept off stage so the big houses can get back to stabbing each other in the back.
The sort of outside, inhuman evil the Others represent doesn't really care who eloped with who or what animal you've sewn to a flag.
I have a strong feeling that the Others are going to kick over the game board and scatter the pieces, while suggesting that everyone play a new game called "We're going to kill all of you".

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[quote name='Reighnhell' post='1603453' date='Nov 30 2008, 03.13']Maybe I'm trying to see the bigger picture here, but I don't think the threat of the Others is going to be swept off stage so the big houses can get back to stabbing each other in the back.
The sort of outside, inhuman evil the Others represent doesn't really care who eloped with who or what animal you've sewn to a flag.
I have a strong feeling that the Others are going to kick over the game board and scatter the pieces, while suggesting that everyone play a new game called "We're going to kill all of you".[/quote]


That makes more sense, but if Dany is going to be the one leading westeros, then im going to kill myself :bang:

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[quote name='Wolf King' post='1609790' date='Dec 5 2008, 04.41']That makes more sense, but if Dany is going to be the one leading westeros, then im going to kill myself :bang:[/quote]


Dany will bring the heavy artillery in the fight against Others. It is known.

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[quote name='Wolf King' post='1609790' date='Dec 4 2008, 22.41']That makes more sense, but if Dany is going to be the one leading westeros, then im going to kill myself :bang:[/quote]
I wouldnt mind as long as its not easy for her. At the moment, she looks like coasting to victory. The Greyjoys are dark horses in my opinion. Heres hoping euron nicks the dragons...that would be so GRR

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I dont think any of the big houses will be utterly destroyed. Maybe one and even that is a longshot. The thing is, most of those Houses have many relatives so you cant really destroy them totally like when the Lannisters wiped the floor with Tarbecks and Reynes. Also, in the minds of peasants and such those families are established as rulng Houses. Even bloody Boltons have to marry a fake Stark in order to maybe rule Winterfell. Of course, if the Others get a quick start and they get to to the Neck before the dragons arrive then all bets are off. Than we will probably have something like 5 new Houses. House Bronn, House Shagga, House Darkstar, House Hodor... and they will all be overruled by Dolorous Edd (for he will outlive the dragons and the Others and Stannis and possibly even Walder Frey).

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True, its nearly impossible to eliminate a large House (in the case of the Frey's, I hope it isn't). Take the Stark's for an example, if they were all eliminated, then perhaps the Karstarks will drop the "Kar" and just become "Starks".

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[quote name='VorianGR' post='1610428' date='Dec 5 2008, 13.39']Dany will bring the heavy artillery in the fight against Others. It is known.[/quote]


Then I will take a trip to westeros myself and get rid of her. :tantrum:

That's known :smoking:

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[quote name='Northwest' post='1611133' date='Dec 6 2008, 14.20']I dont think any of the big houses will be utterly destroyed.[/quote]
There's not many boltons out there, and yes now their a "big house". And you don't have to kill all the members of a house to destroy them. The Starks are pretty much gone until Bran shows up again. The Lannisters are surprisingly vulnerable thanks to Cersei's machinations and Lancels newfound piety.

Destroying the other houses would be difficult, though. However, you dont need to kill the freys, theyll pretty much destory themselves when old walder kicks it. The others may kill the survivors before they recover. The Tyrells are a good unit, especially if Loras survives, ditto the Martells.

The Greyjoys would be stronger as long as Asha doesnt get to use Theon IMO. A power struggle would cripple them and their doing so well at the moment, even if their leaders a couple of cans short.

In short, yes they can and most of them probably will

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can't really blame the umbers, i mean the head of their house is in chains right now. so they are not really turncloaks. i think for there to be 1 house that survives is insulting to the scope of the series. now i believe the starks will come good again, the lannisters will come back into power when tyrion is the last one. the arryns are screwed, tullys might just make it, the targs will be back. when all else seems lost the baratheons will be back with gendry at the helm. the martells will be in power also. boltons and freys are going going gone!

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I notice three things that everyone seems to be leaving out, possibly because they weren't at the heart of the drama in AFFC. But be certain that they'll at least be important factors in determining who the "winner" will be.

1) Wildlings. They have been beaten, yes, but they are still the largest fighting force in the North, they are unruly and unpredictable by nature, and they have firsthand experience with teh Others. Stannis plans to use them, but they'll not likely bend well to his style of rule. Lord Snow and Bran may have some influence with them, though. I'm not saying that they'll come out in force over Westeros a la [i]Dune[/i]'s Fremen, but they could be a big factor.

2) Bran. ASOIAF began with him, and GRRM has followed his story closely, despite its distance from the central action of the book. Also note that he is the only major character who seems to have magic abilities (except melisandre).

3) Arya. My favorite character. She's a survivor and an 11 yr old killer. She's immature and impulsive, but when she matures a bit, she'll be the most dangerous character in the book. I bet she'll grow up to be hot too. There's really no way to know how GRRM will develop her--will she become a Faceless man? A princess? A warrior like Asha greyjoy? Whatever, she'll stay a killer.

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[quote name='Faceless Manwhore' post='1641704' date='Jan 9 2009, 04.53']I notice three things that everyone seems to be leaving out, possibly because they weren't at the heart of the drama in AFFC. But be certain that they'll at least be important factors in determining who the "winner" will be.

1) Wildlings. They have been beaten, yes, but they are still the largest fighting force in the North, they are unruly and unpredictable by nature, and they have firsthand experience with teh Others. Stannis plans to use them, but they'll not likely bend well to his style of rule. Lord Snow and Bran may have some influence with them, though. I'm not saying that they'll come out in force over Westeros a la [i]Dune[/i]'s Fremen, but they could be a big factor.

2) Bran. ASOIAF began with him, and GRRM has followed his story closely, despite its distance from the central action of the book. Also note that he is the only major character who seems to have magic abilities (except melisandre).

3) Arya. My favorite character. She's a survivor and an 11 yr old killer. She's immature and impulsive, but when she matures a bit, she'll be the most dangerous character in the book. I bet she'll grow up to be hot too. There's really no way to know how GRRM will develop her--will she become a Faceless man? A princess? A warrior like Asha greyjoy? Whatever, she'll stay a killer.[/quote]
bran and melisandre are the only ones with magical abilities????? jon snow has them to, arya stark, rickon stark, they all have magical abilities, just not developed yet. how about the reeds? jojen has some magical ability, the (name has slipped me now) bald red priest who fights with a flaming sword? you cant tell me bringing someone back from the dead is not magical. sorry but soo many characters have shown magical abilities to some degree, and there are more than i mentioned too.

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[quote name='Winter Crow' date='Nov 2 2008, 17.09' post='1574862']
Another Stark-sympathiser here. I really like them, and they're pretty much the only house that hasn't committed some heinous and unspeakable crime (at least as far as the books go).

Other than them, I hope at some point that Baratheon might get a swing at taking back [b]some[/b] power. I liked Robert, and I like Stannis even more.

I really hope that that the Targ's wont win in the end. It would be so bloody predictable. Daenerys attacks Westeros, Dorne helps her do it... We all now the story. While I definitely want Daeny to come back to Westeros and set a few things straight, I don't hope she "wins" it all.

Frey, Bolton and Greyjoy (possibly Umber as well) should be utterly exterminated... Damn turncloaks...
[/quot

I agree that we all want justice for House Stark, but GRRM does like to take twists and turns with the plot. The type of resolution he delivers will probably be different than we expect. I suspect that there will be no totally sweet victory for anyone. Life simply doesn't allow that. :thumbsdown:

Be careful what you pray for, you just might get it. -- a quote from THE BABE IN THE BUNKER

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[quote name='hrafna' post='1644390' date='Jan 11 2009, 07.19']bran and melisandre are the only ones with magical abilities????? jon snow has them to, arya stark, rickon stark, they all have magical abilities, just not developed yet. how about the reeds? jojen has some magical ability, the (name has slipped me now) bald red priest who fights with a flaming sword? you cant tell me bringing someone back from the dead is not magical. sorry but soo many characters have shown magical abilities to some degree, and there are more than i mentioned too.[/quote]


Yes the other starks have magical power but really not in the same league as Bran seems to posses

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[quote name='Branfangd' post='1647087' date='Jan 13 2009, 11.36']Yes the other starks have magical power but really not in the same league as Bran seems to posses[/quote]
In that respect, its just like any other natural ability

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[quote name='Chalky' post='1647356' date='Jan 13 2009, 19.40']In that respect, its just like any other natural ability[/quote]


You're meaning what exactly?

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[quote name='Branfangd' post='1647463' date='Jan 13 2009, 16.47']You're meaning what exactly?[/quote]
I mean that magic dreams are very common in the series. Jaime has one for instance. It seems pretty similar to say being a good soccer player. Some people like Bran are naturally good at it, but anyone can kick a ball around, and do it well with enough practice.

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