AGoT Mafia 71 - Rebellion in Hell

[House Stokeworth]

Updated:

1.- Mastema: Depraved (+1)

2.- Belial: Cross-dresser (+1), Whiner (-1)

3.- Astartoth: Lawyer (+1), Used to beat him on Soulcalibur (-1), Care-bear villain (-1), Confuses the third commandment with the sixth (+1), Rickrolled (-1)

4.- Azazel: Groveling (-1), Goat lover (+1), Not Lady Ga-ga (+1), Maker of tainted posts (+1), Profile envy (-1), Rickrolled (-1)

5.- Beelzebub (a.k.a Bub; a.k.a Ba'al): Bub? (-1) Denzel Washington? (-1)

6.- Asmodeus: Virgin (-1), Not guilty (-1), Likes Lady Gaga (-1), Probably gay (+1), Out of the closet (+1), Rickrolled (-1)

7.- Mammon: Incompetent (-1), Ungrateful bastard (+1)

8.- Mephistopheles: Failed in the past (-1), Inane (-1)

9.- Berith: Quotes Mephistopheles (-1), Twice (-1)

10.- Sammael: Nerd (+1), Rickrolled (-1)

11.- Belphegor: Lazy ass (-1), Rat (-1)

12.- Lady Gaga: Ugh (-1), Player (+1)

Alright Bapho, there are 15 people playing, so missing from your "list" are Leviathan, Lucifer and yourself. Lev hadn't posted at that point, and I don't expect you to rate yourself, but why has poor old Luci been expelled from listhood? He posted a good half hour before you updated.

[House Connington]

I am back for a few minutes before bed. Barely five pages so far? Hmm... I really thought there would be more to go on by now. I guess that I am as much to blame as anyone. But now that everyone else has posted and we are down to 20 hours left, we should probably start building some lynchtrains and whatnot. At this point, I am not a fan of Baphomet’s list. It looks to me like a distraction which allows him to post regularly, but excuses him from having to come up with anything else to say. It is not productive for anyone else's discussion and it has gone on too long. I don’t like that.

I also don’t like Leviathon’s response to Asmodeus. Strikes me oddly. I am not sure I am ready to say that Leviathon is a symp based on the original comment, but the response is the only other thing that has stuck out to me so far.

Nine people have 4 posts or less (including me) and that is pretty much a crap shoot for the day one vote unless there is more participation. Still plenty of time, but let's get to it. My vote is going on Leviation.

[House Dondarrion]

Baphomet is entirely too helpful (or wishing to appear so) to be an unnameable devourer of souls.

But I'm staying on Astartoth for obvious lynch-wagoning.

[House Dondarrion]

Also, not rick-rolled. So BOO-YA!

[House Connington]

Asynchronous mentions of Baphomet are a little odder so an explanation would be in order.

I feel pretty confident that I don't know what you mean by this. Are you talking to Bapho?

[House Thorne]

I feel pretty confident that I don't know what you mean by this. Are you talking to Bapho?

I'm pretty sure he's talking about Leviathan's first post.

[House Connington]

Note to self:

there are no innocent links in mafia.

:bang:

Just a helpful correction for ya.

[House Connington]

I'm pretty sure he's talking about Leviathan's first post.

Ahh.. no mention of Lev in that post, but that makes sense I guess.

[Lady Gaga]

I am back for a few minutes before bed. Barely five pages so far? Hmm... I really thought there would be more to go on by now. I guess that I am as much to blame as anyone. But now that everyone else has posted and we are down to 20 hours left, we should probably start building some lynchtrains and whatnot. At this point, I am not a fan of Baphomet’s list. It looks to me like a distraction which allows him to post regularly, but excuses him from having to come up with anything else to say. It is not productive for anyone else's discussion and it has gone on too long. I don’t like that.

I also don’t like Leviathon’s response to Asmodeus. Strikes me oddly. I am not sure I am ready to say that Leviathon is a symp based on the original comment, but the response is the only other thing that has stuck out to me so far.

Nine people have 4 posts or less (including me) and that is pretty much a crap shoot for the day one vote unless there is more participation. Still plenty of time, but let's get to it. My vote is going on Leviation.

What sort of response did you expect, you haven't explained your reasoning other that saying that it's odd. This looks to me like someone placing a safe vote without making an effort to explore it at all, let alone any other alternatives. I'm voting Beelzebub, he's cast a serous vote without any serious reasoning, which I find suspicious.

[House Redfort]

I feel guilty for picking on the first person to make a serious post, but a couple of things rang false here. (Besides, trying to read too deeply into jokes about demon sex just makes me feel like an idiot.)

I am back for a few minutes before bed. Barely five pages so far? Hmm... I really thought there would be more to go on by now. I guess that I am as much to blame as anyone. But now that everyone else has posted and we are down to 20 hours left, we should probably start building some lynchtrains and whatnot.

Nine people have 4 posts or less (including me) and that is pretty much a crap shoot for the day one vote unless there is more participation. Still plenty of time, but let's get to it. My vote is going on Leviation.

Not that I can argue with the idea behind these two quotes, but something about the tone reads as inorganic and forced. I remember someone catching scum with this in Piper's Smurf game (the one where Lany had two alts). A killer interrupted the RP with "Okay, serious phase over, let's get down to business." Call it gut, but I get a fake-contribution vibe from this. You're telling instead of showing. You talk a lot about how we should build lynchtrains, let's get moving, yadda yadda, but not giving many concrete opinions. Besides, IMO, the game hasn't been all that slow for Day One. Twenty hours to go is not exactly down to the wire.

At this point, I am not a fan of Baphomet’s list. It looks to me like a distraction which allows him to post regularly, but excuses him from having to come up with anything else to say. It is not productive for anyone else's discussion and it has gone on too long. I don’t like that.

1) I don't like that you brought this point up after several people complained about Baphomet's list posts being annoying. Both the players you mentioned suspecting--Baphomet and Leviathan--are the closest things that pass for easy targets in this game so far.

2) You yourself said that nothing has happened. What is Baphomet distracting from, more RP jokes? I can buy the stalling argument if serious discussion were going on, but no one else was saying anything "productive" either (ETA: at the time Baphomet was spamming the thread). I don't see how lots of jokey posts are more suspicious than one or two jokey posts, particularly in a game where most of the killers have an incentive to lie low. If he continues the list posts tomorrow...then there's a problem.

(I know I should resist the temptation to defend someone off the bat, even if it's only to attack his accuser for his arguments...but fine. I'll admit it. Apparently I was the only one who found Baphomet's rankings funny. He gets one free "Astaroth Early Game Goodwill Credit" for that.)

I also don’t like Leviathon’s response to Asmodeus. Strikes me oddly. I am not sure I am ready to say that Leviathon is a symp based on the original comment, but the response is the only other thing that has stuck out to me so far.

Define "oddly." How did his response stick out to you? (I have my own thoughts about Leviathan--I see he posted while I was writing this, and there are definitely things worth commenting on there--but I'd like to hear you answer this first.)

[House Connington]

What sort of response did you expect, you haven't explained your reasoning other that saying that it's odd. This looks to me like someone placing a safe vote without making an effort to explore it at all, let alone any other alternatives. I'm voting Beelzebub, he's cast a serous vote without any serious reasoning, which I find suspicious.

Fair enough.

You said:

Oh crap, you caught me! Seriously no, I was just enjoying the many goatly faces of Baph, I found it worthy of a jokey comment. I didn't think of the possible connotations of my remark. Stupid yes, symp no.

This combination of sarcasm and backpeddaling did not sound right to me. Few people take symp clues seriously this early in the game, and even if we did, we would lynch Bapho to test, not the symp (which would not prove anything with the CF). As a result, if I had been in your place I would have ignored Asmodeus's comment, your quick response just seemed a little panicky to me. Not that you are a symp, but that you were nervous about being called out. Your OMGUS vote isn't helping, either.

[House Connington]

I feel guilty for picking on the first person to make a serious post, but a couple of things rang false here. (Besides, trying to read too deeply into jokes about demon sex just makes me feel like an idiot.)

Don't feel guilty, but someone has to make that post in almost every mafia game. I think I have a right to be nervous about contribution with 15 people playing and basically 4 pages of posts at that point. The sooner we can get down to business and have a serious discussion, the less likely we will waste our Day 1 lynch. I wasn't trying to start a panic. Everyone had posted at that point, the RP was pretty much done, and I noted some suspicions and made a serious vote.

Not that I can argue with the idea behind these two quotes, but something about the tone reads as inorganic and forced. I remember someone catching scum with this in Piper's Smurf game (the one where Lany had two alts). A killer interrupted the RP with "Okay, serious phase over, let's get down to business." Call it gut, but I get a fake-contribution vibe from this. You're telling instead of showing. You talk a lot about how we should build lynchtrains, let's get moving, yadda yadda, but not giving many concrete opinions. Besides, IMO, the game hasn't been all that slow for Day One. Twenty hours to go is not exactly down to the wire.

I can't argue with your gut. But we disagree on what makes a "slow game" apparently. Satan is still the post leader in this 15 person game.

1) I don't like that you brought this point up after several people complained about Baphomet's list posts being annoying. Both the players you mentioned suspecting--Baphomet and Leviathan--are the closest things that pass for easy targets in this game so far.

It was not original. Earlier posts pointed out that it was annoying. I pointed out that it allowed Bapho to post updates to his list without contributing anything constructive. That is my take on it.

2) You yourself said that nothing has happened. What is Baphomet distracting from, more RP jokes? I can buy the stalling argument if serious discussion were going on, but no one else was saying anything "productive" either. I don't see how lots of jokey posts are more suspicious than one or two jokey posts, particularly in a game where most of the killers have an incentive to lie low. If he continues the list posts tomorrow...then there's a problem.

(I know I should resist the temptation to defend someone off the bat, even if it's only to attack his accuser for his arguments...but fine. I'll admit it. Apparently I was the only one who found Baphomet's rankings funny. He gets one free "Astaroth Early Game Goodwill Credit" for that.)

If he continues the joke list posts on Day 2? Are you serious? Way to set up your reaction to something that would never happen. The joke list was funny the first couple of times. After that it got annoying, and after that it looked to me like it was a substitute for saying anything else. ymmv so feel free to give him a pass today.

Define "oddly." (I have my own thoughts about Leviathan--I see he posted while I was writing this, and there are definitely things worth commenting on there--but I'd like to hear you answer this first.)

You got it. (see response to Lev)

[Lady Gaga]

Fair enough.

You said:

This combination of sarcasm and backpeddaling did not sound right to me. Few people take symp clues seriously this early in the game, and even if we did, we would lynch Bapho to test, not the symp (which would not prove anything with the CF). As a result, if I had been in your place I would have ignored Asmodeus's comment, your quick response just seemed a little panicky to me. Not that you are a symp, but that you were nervous about being called out. Your OMGUS vote isn't helping, either.

His comment was phrased as a question so I answered. Your accusation was empty and therefore suspicious, even if it had been directed elsewhere I would have had the same reaction.

[House Velaryon]

Just a helpful correction for ya.

Well, there are innocent links in mafia, but you can't should different these from guilty ones, so should avoid following any of them.

On topic: I agree with Beelzebub that Levi's post was fairly overdefensive. However, at the modern times we assume overdefensiveness isn't a sign of guilt. I don't want to vote either of them.

[House Targaryen]

It is day 1.

15 players remain: Asmodeus, Astaroth, Azalel, Baphomet, Beelzebub, Belial, Belphegor, Berith, Lady GaGa, Leviathan, Lucifer, Mammon, Mastema, Mephistopheles, Sammael.

8 votes are needed for a conviction or to go to night.

2 votes for Belial (Azalel, Lady GaGa)

2 votes for Lady GaGa (Asmodeus, Astaroth)

2 votes for Leviathan (Sammael, Beelzebub)

1 vote for Astaroth (Mastema)

1 vote for Azalel (Belphegor)

1 vote for Baphomet (Mammon)

1 vote for Beelzebub (Leviathan)

5 players have not voted: Baphomet, Belial, Berith, Lucifer, Mephistopheles.

Satan is back (it was one hell of a party!) and is currently so alone and bored in Spoiler Hell that he's entertaining the idea of killing some of you just to keep him company.

[House Redfort]

Okay, thanks for that, Beelzebub. I'll admit that those answers make me feel a lot better about you. To be honest, I wanted to keep my cards to my chest to see what reasons you'd give for voting Leviathan, but those were pretty much my exact thoughts on him. I don't put much stock in symp clues (to make a huge understatement). But that jumpy "Ha ha, who me, a symp, no, seriously, I was only joking" combined with his OMGUS vote on you...yeah. Yeah.

Don't feel guilty, but someone has to make that post in almost every mafia game. I think I have a right to be nervous about contribution with 15 people playing and basically 4 pages of posts at that point. The sooner we can get down to business and have a serious discussion, the less likely we will waste our Day 1 lynch. I wasn't trying to start a panic. Everyone had posted at that point, the RP was pretty much done, and I noted some suspicions and made a serious vote.

I don't disagree with your stated intent. What I disliked was the approach you took. You spent more words on chiding everyone to post more and start some wagons than on your actual suspects. That's what I meant about telling rather than showing. Leviathan made a grand total of one valid point all game, and that was that you didn't initially explain what you meant by finding his reaction "odd." You kept calling attention to the fact that you were trying to get the game moving, but to be honest, you didn't provide all that much original content (although this changed with your later posts). Doing that is a handy and easy way for FM to look helpful and protown.

I can't argue with your gut. But we disagree on what makes a "slow game" apparently. Satan is still the post leader in this 15 person game.

I don't know if you followed the last game, but not a single serious case was made until seven hours before the lynch. Obviously, that's an extreme example, but I thought your anxiety was a bit over-the-top.

It was not original. Earlier posts pointed out that it was annoying. I pointed out that it allowed Bapho to post updates to his list without contributing anything constructive. That is my take on it.

The reason this didn't fly with me is that during the frame of time when he was spamming his lists, no one was contributing anything constructive. So there's no scum motivation to stave off contribution. If he hadn't been posting lists, he probably would have been posting more bad jokes--which are easy to make as either alignment. And if my memory serves me, several people had already complained that he was "trying too hard to be helpful." So your suspicions of Baphomet read as a tad sheepy.

If he continues the joke list posts on Day 2? Are you serious? Way to set up your reaction to something that would never happen. The joke list was funny the first couple of times. After that it got annoying, and after that it looked to me like it was a substitute for saying anything else. ymmv so feel free to give him a pass today.

(By "tomorrow," I meant "tomorrow morning in my time zone," not "Day Two.") What I meant was that if he came back to the thread and continued updating the list after people started placing serious votes, then that would be scummy as hell. But the timing was wrong. Keeping up the list during RP doesn't benefit scum, and only calls more attention to himself.

[House Connington]

I don't want to vote either of them.

Okay. Who then?

[House Redfort]

Ugh, it's two-thirty in the morning here, and I'm supposed to leave the house in six hours. I'll move my vote when I'm alert enough to think clearly.

(Just a heads-up: I'll only have intermittent access to a computer all day, and won't be around for the lynch.)

[House Velaryon]

Okay. Who then?

Nobody yet. Ony four of us made serious posts, let's wait for the rest.

[House Stokeworth]

Baphomet is entirely too helpful (or wishing to appear so) to be an unnameable devourer of souls.

But I'm staying on Astartoth for obvious lynch-wagoning.

It always bugs me when people decide that their joke vote is in exactly the right place and should now be considered serious especially when it's for a very weak reason. It feels like a soft way to vote someone and draw limited heat. If you consider a third vote in the joke phase to be super suspicious it would be nice if you laid out the case and brought attention to what was going on (I had to go back to work out what you were talking about). Seems like a lazy way to avoid casting a serious vote and making a stink to me. Mastema