Branna Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 I wonder if it's foreshadowing that he'll be the Dragon-rider for Viserion, a dragon named after another batshit crazy guy.Please no. I really hope the dragon riders are all decent characters. Victarion is a brute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENikolai Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 I like Victarion, and have a higher opinion of him after having read ADWD. Love how practical and pragmatic he is about gods and sacrifice - and especially the originality of the final one. He's a man's man, and perhaps the most likely person to diminish and eventually defeat Daenerys. I hope he manages to enslave/dominate Drogon, and turn him on the forces of the bitch queen. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illuminatia Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 I like Victarion, and have a higher opinion of him after having read ADWD. Love how practical and pragmatic he is about gods and sacrifice - and especially the originality of the final one. He's a man's man, and perhaps the most likely person to diminish and eventually defeat Daenerys. I hope he manages to enslave/dominate Drogon, and turn him on the forces of the bitch queen. :)So... You really like them man's men, huh? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brienne the Beauty Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 He may not be a psychopath, but he acts like one, due to his unexamined cultural values. Human sacrifice, killing a bunch of slaves for being gay (or rather probably forced to be gay), rape, torture, murder, slaving. So he's not at all sympathetic, but he's fun to read about in a "Ar harrr matey" pirate captain sort of way. He's also not hurt anyone we, the readers, care about, just a bunch of extras. If he raped and murdered the Mormont ladies of Bear Island, for example, he'd probably not get any sort of pass from readers for his actions. More so, if he hurt a major character, like Asha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaune Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 The guy goes around murdering, killing, sacrificing, raping etc.And no battle we've seen him enter was on even terms.He's basically a bully.And him being brought up that way doesn't excuse him.AND the one battle that we do know mattered, Stannis beat him.I honestly don't get what's to like about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolwynia Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 I wonder if it's foreshadowing that he'll be the Dragon-rider for Viserion, a dragon named after another batshit crazy guy.I think this is a possibility. But I don't think he'll get to remain a dragon-rider. Since we now know that a dragon can have more than one rider, but no rider can ride more than one dragon, I think he might succeed in getting a hold of a dragon...for a while. I don't think he'll last long.And I hate Victarion, though I like him as a bad guy, the way I like the Boltons and Joffery. Maybe Drogon will roast him, eat him, and do his business while flying over the sea...then Victarion can be an offering to two different gods, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENikolai Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 So... You really like them man's men, huh? :)I resent the implication, keep in mind that the man in question drowned a few dozen perfumed flamboyant homosexuals on moral principle. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bromosapian Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 All victarion wants is some dragon cunny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
em388480 Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 He may not be a psychopath, but he acts like one, due to his unexamined cultural values. Human sacrifice, killing a bunch of slaves for being gay (or rather probably forced to be gay), rape, torture, murder, slaving. So he's not at all sympathetic, but he's fun to read about in a "Ar harrr matey" pirate captain sort of way. He's also not hurt anyone we, the readers, care about, just a bunch of extras. If he raped and murdered the Mormont ladies of Bear Island, for example, he'd probably not get any sort of pass from readers for his actions. More so, if he hurt a major character, like Asha.He's brutish, and things like boy-whoring don't belong in his world. It's not natural, and he won't allow it. He is ironborn to the core - just take things from his brutal society perspective. The guy is an effing walking hero IMO.Would I want to be on his bad side? Hell no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaune Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 He's brutish, and things like boy-whoring don't belong in his world. It's not natural, and he won't allow it. He is ironborn to the core - just take things from his brutal society perspective. The guy is an effing walking hero IMO.How does that make him a hero?Some other country invades your, slaughters innnocents, rapes and pillages, and they're heroes?Victarion's a hardass, yeah... but only to a degree. At no point in the story so far have we seen him fighting an even battle, every one of his confrontations has been with his ships initiating a battle they can't lose.Oh, and he wussed out in the Kingsmoot.And wusses out any time Euron's there, pretty much.It's much easier to smash your wife's skull in rather than face your brother - in Victarion's world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olenna Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 GRRM has gotten better at writing villains. Victarion, Ramsay, and Roose are all much more interesting than Tywin, Gregor, Joffrey and Viserys IMO. Victarion, in particular, is our first real villain POV and it's a tour de force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy89 Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 He may not be a psychopath, but he acts like one, due to his unexamined cultural values. Human sacrifice, killing a bunch of slaves for being gay (or rather probably forced to be gay), rape, torture, murder, slaving. So he's not at all sympathetic, but he's fun to read about in a "Ar harrr matey" pirate captain sort of way. He's also not hurt anyone we, the readers, care about, just a bunch of extras. If he raped and murdered the Mormont ladies of Bear Island, for example, he'd probably not get any sort of pass from readers for his actions. More so, if he hurt a major character, like Asha.I think the point is he didn't kill them for being gay, he has no problems with his men fuckin the maester in the ass, he killed them because they were men used in a female role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targaryen loyalist Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 I don't think that Victarion is a villain.He is a badass, a murderer, a rapist, a drowned god taliban but at the end of the day he won't be a villain.The villain is Euron, Victarion will eventually help Dany (my two cents). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jellydonut Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Please no. I really hope the dragon riders are all decent characters. Victarion is a brute.Why should the dragon riders be decent? No decent man would want to command a murdering, nightmarish beast. Which is what the dragons are. They are fearsome beasts that can barely be controlled. ADWD showed us this much, at least.. I loved the horror-ish Jurassic Park scenes with the Dornish and the dragons.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Été Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Victarion is an asshole. He's got minimal regard for human life and a massive inferiority complex WRT even more brutal brother Euron - but you know what? His chapters are great. They're action-packed and he actually seems to be progressing towards his destination. He's also refreshingly honest about his motivations and is blissfully unperturbed by weak green-lands considerations like doubt, insight, or an IQ above room temperature. I'm kinda rooting for the big douche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TamTam Rapley Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 So he's not Joffrey 2.0, he's Gregor 2.0?Not once do we see Victarion rape someone, and he takes no joy in killing others unlike Gregor. Gregor would of burned those girls for fun, he did it because he felt it was his duty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiver Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Not once do we see Victarion rape someone, and he takes no joy in killing others unlike Gregor. Gregor would of burned those girls for fun, he did it because he felt it was his duty.Haha, that's ok then. We don't see him rape anyone but we know he has no real problem with it and his talk of reaving i'm sure involves a little bit of rapine. By the sound of it he's not exactly loving and caring to the Dusky woman and she's not really given much choice in her bed partner. Nor are the girls he gives to his captains. Even if he doesn't rape himself (which i doubt) he encourages it in others and enables it which is just as bad.re the dusky woman. Iirc he took her on because Euron threatened to kill her if he didn't. In Adwd he thinks he should just slit her throat and be done with her. Is this a continuity error that has slipped in or am remembering reading wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikonoklastik Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Victarion might be a little insensitive to the culture differences between the slaves & his Ironborn, but telling slaves they're free and having them be "salt wives" to his captains is a little different than cruel, wanton rape. I remember reading the Theon chapters when he first sails off to Pyke, and judging from those, most low born Ironborn women would consider it an honor to be the salt wives of captains of the Iron Fleet. He told them just that.If Victarion's evil for all the reaving that his society endorses, then are the wildlings evil for their raiding & carrying off women? It's basically the same thing. We see the latter through Jon's POV and become sympathetic to the wildling culture, while a lot of the Watch see them a bit differently. Is Tormund less evil than Victarion because he's Jon's friend, or because he has a better sense of humor? That's just silly. And why are people still hung up on the sacrifices? They're to a god the Ironborn believe in (the Drowned God) and a new god that the priest has somewhat "proven" to Victarion. In his eyes, why should he just simply kill them or leave them to starve or whatever if he can make them an offering to gods? Religion's always a touchy subject, but if you're doing something because you believe it's what some almighty power wants, that trumps any moral qualms you might normally have. If it's cool for Abraham to agree to sacrifice Isaac, then it's cool for Victarion to burn 7 girls and drown people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TamTam Rapley Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 In Ironborn culture, to be a salt-wife is considered an honor, and any children of a thrall is a free man. He doesn't even make those slaves he frees as thralls, as of right now they're just rowers serving the Iron Fleet. Consider it their practicum, if they do well and survive they might actually be assimiliated as a member of the fleet. Far better to than a life of a slave methinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexia Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 I don't like Victarion any better, in fact I hate him more. That being said, he is one of the funniest characters in the books and I kept turning pages wide-eyed to see what he would do next. His sacrifice to three gods was hysterical in an extremely morbid way, and he is just so over the top. I don't want him to die too soon because his chapters are perfect for coming after some of the dark stuff in the book.WRT the slaves that he freed and made into rowers, that wasn't terribly inconsistent. He didn't free them and throw them out on the streets, he gave them jobs with the Iron Fleet. However, the inconsistency of freeing them for indentured servitude is not lost on me. :lmao: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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