SerStinger Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 OK, but we're reading the series in ENGLISH. Martin is the authorial translator. If this was a postmodern book about the unreliability of truth and language and writing and wanted to be meta that would be cool but it's not. It's a fantasy book. We need to trust the authority of the narration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danm_999 Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 OK, but we're reading the series in ENGLISH. Martin is the authorial translator.Which is interesting because he chose to give a prophecy 95% in clear English (or Westerosi, as the case may be for Cersei), except for one untranslated word. Presumably this either serves to obscure the actual identity of the person who kills Cersei, or as a red herring to direct people away from the obvious conclusions of Jaime or Tyrion in a way that saying "the little brother shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat" would not.If this was a postmodern book about the unreliability of truth and language and writing and wanted to be meta that would be cool but it's not. It's a fantasy book. We need to trust the authority of the narration.Actually, it's often cited as an example of post-modern fantasy, but discussing what post-modernity actually is was such a head-achey topic I'll leave that one and simply say this;It's not an omniscient narration, it's not even particularly reliable narration, else Sansa's encounter with the Hound is some sort of Schrodinger's Cat situation where she both did and didn't kiss him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerStinger Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 OK. Maybe I'm wrong in criticizing something which hasn't happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fionula Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 has anyone considered that the valonqar might be 'young Griff' aka Aegon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggydog's trainer Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 It depends on the execution I suppose.For a long time, it really looked like Catelyn was dead-dead. Then we got the almost deus ex-machina of Nymeria finding her and Beric resurrecting her.Sorry to go off topic but please please can someone let me know when Nymeria found Cat ~ if thats something I've missed I wanna take a re-read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
summer_stark Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Sorry to go off topic but please please can someone let me know when Nymeria found Cat ~ if thats something I've missed I wanna take a re-readit's in arya's POV in ASOS -- after the RW, she wants to go back and find her mom, then she has a dream as Nymeria pulling Cat out of the water, wakes up and tells the Hound nevermind, her mom is dead... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lelezuda Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 You know, funny thing, and I had noticed reading your posts. Sansa is Cesei`s sister-in-law. If we take valonqar for both genders, can we take it for in laws, too?Stannis is/was her (little) brother in law Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterbird Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 OK, but we're reading the series in ENGLISH. Martin is the authorial translator. If this was a postmodern book about the unreliability of truth and language and writing and wanted to be meta that would be cool but it's not. It's a fantasy book. We need to trust the authority of the narration.But don't forget that Martin likes to use the device of an unreliable narrator. He's said it in a few interviews. What any one character says in his/her POV is what that specific character thinks. Also, we tend to use the male gender pronouns when gender is questionable or unknown. So I wouldn't get too caught up on the "his" thing... I mean we call ships "she," but that doesn't mean the ships are women. I'm not saying it can't be a man, just saying that I wouldn't rule out that it couldn't be a girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moscatel Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 I´ve said it before and I´ll say it again. There is only one person who fits both "the little brother" and "the younger and more beautiful queen" and that is Loras Tyrell/end discussionFunny and true! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnoftheBraves Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Can someone help out a board noob and tell me how we know valonqar means "little brother," por favor? the meaning of the word was explained by maester Aemon while he and Sam were traveling on the Narrow Sea, he explained that in Valyrian the word was neutral, so it has to be a younger sibling, either male or female. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxhound Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 the meaning of the word was explained by maester Aemon while he and Sam were traveling on the Narrow Sea, he explained that in Valyrian the word was neutral, so it has to be a younger sibling, either male or female.No, Cersei tells Taena it means little brother, which she learned after asking her Septa. Aemon meanwhile says they were looking for a prince, but that was an error in the translation because dragons are neither male nor female. He never mentions the word valonqar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaquentis Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 It has to be Jaime, cause you know, Cersei's pain must never end. :P The only thing that confuses me, even though Maggy clearly says "his hands" is then why use the word valonquar instead of just brother? It would still serve the plot twist and confuse readers between Tyrion and Jaime without her just dropping a random word in high valyrian. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandallFlagg Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 I'd like the valonqar to be Tyrion, as Cersei suspects. I can't think of anything more satisfying than Tyrion strangling sweet Cersei. She is terrified of Tyrion and the prophecy. She'll die while living out her worst nightmare.If Jaime is the valonqar she will never expect it. She'll die sad, and confused. Not as good to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnJoff Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Rickon is the little brother! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat of the Canal Girl Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 I also think there is significance to GRRM's choice to stick 1 high valerian word in with a bunch of common tongueTechnically any male who is not the first born could be "the valonqar" since the prophecy didn't say "your valonqar" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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