Why do people believe the North will continue to try for independance?

[(Nightshade)]

Lyanna Mormont is one sassy little lady, but so is Wylla Manderly:

They killed Lord Eddard and Lady Catelyn and King Robb. He was our king! He was brave and good and the Freys murdered him. If Lord Stannis will avenge him, we should join Lord Stannis!

I don't buy it for a second that the Northmen will betray/lead the demise of someone who is helping them restore the Starks to their ancestral seat.

[Free Northman]

Lyanna Mormont is one sassy little lady, but so is Wylla Manderly:

I don't buy it for a second that the Northmen will betray/lead the demise of someone who is helping them restore the Starks to their ancestral seat.

No, but Stannis is neither the rightful King, nor is he likely to be around by the end.

[Lord Varys]

The thing is, there is no Stark left which would make a good King in the North. Rickon is the only one left, and he is way too young and too untrained to become a good Lord/king in the near future (I only see a chance for him, if there is a Stark family reunion in the end, and Sansa takes care of her brother). Bran is in a much loftier position now to care all that much who sits on which throne (he will be busy with unraveling the past and forge alliances against the Others).

And Jon, well, if Jon ends sitting anywhere it will be the Iron Throne, not the throne of the Kings of Winter.

As to revenge, I've already said it, if the Northmen intend to get even with their southron enemies as well, especially with the Lannisters and Freys, they would have to ally themselves with a pretender who has actually a chance to win some support down in the South. And Stannis would be a rather promising pretender with the backing of the whole North (which, in turn, might motivate others in the South to join him), and the vast amounts of money the Iron Bank is about to deliver to him. The Vale of Arryn might actually end up joining Stannis and Rickon, if Sansa learns about her brother before she and Harry march north themselves...

[The Snowman]

I don't see why Jon Snow(Stark) couldn't be The King in the North. Id actually rather he be KITN than on that Iron Throne.

500!

[Free Northman]

The thing is, there is no Stark left which would make a good King in the North. Rickon is the only one left, and he is way too young and too untrained to become a good Lord/king in the near future (I only see a chance for him, if there is a Stark family reunion in the end, and Sansa takes care of her brother). Bran is in a much loftier position now to care all that much who sits on which throne (he will be busy with unraveling the past and forge alliances against the Others).

And Jon, well, if Jon ends sitting anywhere it will be the Iron Throne, not the throne of the Kings of Winter.

As to revenge, I've already said it, if the Northmen intend to get even with their southron enemies as well, especially with the Lannisters and Freys, they would have to ally themselves with a pretender who has actually a chance to win some support down in the South. And Stannis would be a rather promising pretender with the backing of the whole North (which, in turn, might motivate others in the South to join him), and the vast amounts of money the Iron Bank is about to deliver to him. The Vale of Arryn might actually end up joining Stannis and Rickon, if Sansa learns about her brother before she and Harry march north themselves...

I take it from the above that you actually think there is even a miniscule chance that Stannis will end up on the Iron Throne at the end of the series?

To me it is abundantly clear that he will not be King in the end, and that his agreements with the Iron Bank are merely setting up resources for someone like Jon to use once he takes over as the rightful monarch.

But to come back to my point, to make it in any way meaningful for the Northern lords to swear to Stannis, the assumption has to be made that he will be King at the end of it all. Which is frankly a ridiculous notion, in my view.

[Lord Varys]

Stannis is destined, in my opinion, to become one of the three pretenders to the Iron Throne in the second half of the series. Stannis, along with Aegon and Dany. Daenerys saw both of them in the House of the Undying (the blue-eyed king with no shadow & the cloth dragon on a pole), which indicates for me that she is going to meet/deal with both of them personally. There has to be a reason why those two were foreshadowed as lies she is going to slay, and not, say, a lioness and her cubs.

Jon might end up on the Iron Throne (either as consort to Daenerys, or by default, because he is the only person with a claim still standing) but throughout the series Jon Snow will never pursue a claim to anything by himself. His war is the War for Dawn (just as Dany's, should she ever come to Westeros), so he won't march south nor is he going to make alliances or play the Game of Thrones. He might very end up being a very powerful leader in the end if the Others are defeated because he will be a huge player in the coming war (which, in turn, might be what makes him King in the end, but this is not going to be his own agenda).

I'd even go so far as to say that nothing would change between Stannis and Jon if they found out about his heritage. Jon has sworn a vow, and Stannis knows this. He could only become King/Lord of anything if the NW is going to be disbanded (which might actually happen right now, considering the state of the Watch) after the Others are finally defeated. If they were to breach/destroy the Wall in the winter, I very much doubt it's going to rebuild afterwards... Without a Wall, there won't be any NW, either.

[Free Northman]

Stannis is destined, in my opinion, to become one of the three pretenders to the Iron Throne in the second half of the series. Stannis, along with Aegon and Dany. Daenerys saw both of them in the House of the Undying (the blue-eyed king with no shadow & the cloth dragon on a pole), which indicates for me that she is going to meet/deal with both of them personally. There has to be a reason why those two were foreshadowed as lies she is going to slay, and not, say, a lioness and her cubs.

Jon might end up on the Iron Throne (either as consort to Daenerys, or by default, because he is the only person with a claim still standing) but throughout the series Jon Snow will never pursue a claim to anything by himself. His war is the War for Dawn (just as Dany's, should she ever come to Westeros), so he won't march south nor is he going to make alliances or play the Game of Thrones. He might very end up being a very powerful leader in the end if the Others are defeated because he will be a huge player in the coming war (which, in turn, might be what makes him King in the end, but this is not going to be his own agenda).

I'd even go so far as to say that nothing would change between Stannis and Jon if they found out about his heritage. Jon has sworn a vow, and Stannis knows this. He could only become King/Lord of anything if the NW is going to be disbanded (which might actually happen right now, considering the state of the Watch) after the Others are finally defeated. If they were to breach/destroy the Wall in the winter, I very much doubt it's going to rebuild afterwards... Without a Wall, there won't be any NW, either.

I totally agree that Stannis is a pretender. Which is why I don't believe the Northern Lords will end up supporting him. They have bled enough. No way is Martin going to bleed them further in support of Stannis's futile wars in the South.

The south is soon going to be ravaged by war and disease, and I don't see a northern army heading south of the Neck again with Winter on their doorstep. Hence, if Stannis is to play this game, he will have to do it with sellswords, because it won't be the Northmen chasing his dream for him south of Moat Cailin.

[Lord Varys]

Stannis, Jon, and the whole North might be forced to retreat south, when the Others finally make their move. Or do you think the real battle, the War for Dawn, is going to be fought only at the Wall itself, or in the Gift? If the Wall is ever breached, the Others will send a massive, huge army of wights of different kinds down south (and considering the huge amount of dying wildlings everywhere beyond the Wall this army would indeed be gigantic!). Once breached, the Wall will soon lose all its strategic value. The best spot for stopping/entrapping/attacking the Others would be the Neck, I guess, since the environment there would at least enable the human resistance to get rid of the wights in the swamp.

[Ghost Rider]

Lyanna Mormont is one sassy little lady, but so is Wylla Manderly:

I don't buy it for a second that the Northmen will betray/lead the demise of someone who is helping them restore the Starks to their ancestral seat.

You know what's really telling about this quote? How Wylla Manderly doesn't talk of a "king" Stannis, instead she calls him "Lord". I'm pretty sure, Stannis would object to this form of address. xD

As for the possible betrayal of Stannis: where does it start? When they don't follow him in his quest for the Iron Throne? Or only when they actively fight against him? I'm pretty sure, Stannis will expect the Northerners to obey his every word - and that is where he'll lose them.

[Free Northman]

Stannis, Jon, and the whole North might be forced to retreat south, when the Others finally make their move. Or do you think the real battle, the War for Dawn, is going to be fought only at the Wall itself, or in the Gift? If the Wall is ever breached, the Others will send a massive, huge army of wights of different kinds down south (and considering the huge amount of dying wildlings everywhere beyond the Wall this army would indeed be gigantic!). Once breached, the Wall will soon lose all its strategic value. The best spot for stopping/entrapping/attacking the Others would be the Neck, I guess, since the environment there would at least enable the human resistance to get rid of the wights in the swamp.

There are about 6 million people in the North. The northern armies aren't going to just abandon their people and flee down south to a defendable position south of the Neck.

The Nightfort is just being resettled.

White Harbor's defences have just been strengthened at significant cost. Alys Karstark has just been married to the Magnar of Thenn.

Deepwood has just been liberated. Jon has just arranged for the Iron Bank to provide food for the North throughout the Long Winter.

And most importantly, Winterfell will soon be freed.

The Northmen aren't going to abandon the North. You are right that the Wall will be breached, but rather than flee south, the population of the North will congregate at the main strongholds. I think Winterfell will be the site of the final battle.

But before that, the Others are going to stream all the way to the Riverlands and maybe beyond. But Bran's magic will help ward the major strongholds as safe havens for the northmen to hold out in while the war rages on.

Sadly, this will not be possible for the southron houses who don't have godswoods anymore. They are going to die like flies.

[Scipio Africanus]

I totally agree that Stannis is a pretender. Which is why I don't believe the Northern Lords will end up supporting him. They have bled enough. No way is Martin going to bleed them further in support of Stannis's futile wars in the South.

The south is soon going to be ravaged by war and disease, and I don't see a northern army heading south of the Neck again with Winter on their doorstep. Hence, if Stannis is to play this game, he will have to do it with sellswords, because it won't be the Northmen chasing his dream for him south of Moat Cailin.

Lately I've been doubting if Stan is coming South, ever again. The Others with fresh Hardhome wight recruits are near and I have a feeling they're about to penetrate the Wall. With the NW in chaos (at the very least) at the end of DWD I don't think Stan will even get a chance to march south but that he has to face the Others and fight for his life. I don't see any characters currently in the North going south for a while.

The southern kingdoms and the Iron Isles are left to their own devices, I don't see any help coming from the south to the North save a few individuals.