The Hooded Man new (?) theory...(possible spoilers)

[mushroomshirt]

In other news, I now think the HM is Harwin. That would make the most sense to me, particularly as he could have attached himself to the Frey-Bolton forces going north quite easily.

Are you sure? Mulled Wino just made a pretty convincing argument that it can't be Harwin since Theon thinks Harwin is dead in the chapter after he meets the Hooded Man.

[Booknerd2]

I have always loved the idea of Harwin because it would connect some things a bit better. I would love to think that the BWB who already is divided into two, are not just one side running around and hiding out waiting to hang Freys with a vindictive Uncat solely. That is fine. More Freys gone the merrier....but I would love to think there is more they are doing that we don't know. That Harwin is from WF, reunited shortly with Arya during her BWB time, heard she "married" Bolton, and Harwin was the best man for the job knowing the place. Because it always sounded ridiculous to me, especially though I love her, some of Brienne's povs were going all over the place and accomplishing not much, that Uncat and others looking for Arya and Sansa, did have other plans in the works. Or at least, the enemy is being watched.

[AdXRoss]

Are you sure? Mulled Wino just made a pretty convincing argument that it can't be Harwin since Theon thinks Harwin is dead in the chapter after he meets the Hooded Man.

Ah well, maybe not! :idea:

[Mulled Wino]

I thought there must be some reason for that, but I'd forgotten that bit. I really need to speed up my re-read and get back to ADwD.

In other news, I now think the HM is Harwin. That would make the most sense to me, particularly as he could have attached himself to the Frey-Bolton forces going north quite easily.

See about 3 posts above yours where I introduce some evidence against it being harwin.

[AdXRoss]

See about 3 posts above yours where I introduce some evidence against it being harwin.

Afraid I missed that. So back to the drawing board I go!

[Mulled Wino]

Well your memory seems pretty good to me. It is definitely better than mine.

I have the kindle version - a search for "Harwin" in Dance shows in chapter 51: "They were all dead now. Jory, old Ser Rodrik, Lord Eddard, Harwin and Hullen, Cayn and Desmond and Fat Tom, Alyn with his dreams of knighthood, Mikken who had given him his first real sword. Even Old Nan, like as not."

This is almost exactly as you remembered:

Great catch. Chapter 51 is when Theon escapes with Jayne. The "Ghost in Winterfell" chapter where the Hooded Man appears before is this. So it's reasonable to think that the HM can't be anyone mentioned in this list or Theon would not think them dead. That definitely rules out Harwin as the HM.

Thx, I really just remember because Harwin stuck out to me because I didnt know he was dead. I mean, thein could just be assuming but I dont see why George would put Harwin in there and have him be the HM. Right now I'm leaning hard towards Robett per my post on the last page. The timing of the meeting and the Umbers starting to blow their horns is a big clue IMO.

[mushroomshirt]

Thx, I really just remember because Harwin stuck out to me because I didnt know he was dead. I mean, thein could just be assuming but I dont see why George would put Harwin in there and have him be the HM. Right now I'm leaning hard towards Robett per my post on the last page. The timing of the meeting and the Umbers starting to blow their horns is a big clue IMO.

I also think Robett is the most likely candidate. He has good reason to be there. He has the right personality to mock Theon the way that the HM does. As you pointed out he is good at the covert mission stuff. He knows Theon and Theon knows him. Theon may feel comfortable revealing his deformity to Robett.

[Mulled Wino]

I also think Robett is the most likely candidate. He has good reason to be there. He has the right personality to mock Theon the way that the HM does. As you pointed out he is good at the covert mission stuff. He knows Theon and Theon knows him. Theon may feel comfortable revealing his deformity to Robett.

He also knows Theon didnt kill Bran and Rickon so he wouldnt just cut him down immediately like other loyal northman assassins would that came from outside WF. He sees that Ramsey is making him pay, so he leaves it alone.

[Stark Born Again]

I also think Robett is the most likely candidate. He has good reason to be there. He has the right personality to mock Theon the way that the HM does. As you pointed out he is good at the covert mission stuff. He knows Theon and Theon knows him. Theon may feel comfortable revealing his deformity to Robett.

This seems the most logical. The only problem I have is - if he's in the crypts it's most probably because there are secret passageways within the crypts to allow access into/out of Winterfell and he needs to move secretly to both places - how would anyone other than a Stark know of these secret passageways? Theon lived there and I don't recall there being any indication that he knew of any passageways to get into/out of Winterfell and if he did then he would have taken Jeyne out that way and searched there for Bran and Rickon when they first went missing. I think it must be a Stark and that would leave Benjen. I think these passageways are old and connected to north of the wall also and Benjen has been using them for some purpose in order to prepare for the upcoming battle with the Others.

[Lion of Judah]

Stone carver? I really doubt it.

[hollowcrown]

HM is Maester Luwin, risen from the dead by the ancient powers of the Old Gods to seek vengeance.

[Mulled Wino]

This seems the most logical. The only problem I have is - if he's in the crypts it's most probably because there are secret passageways within the crypts to allow access into/out of Winterfell and he needs to move secretly to both places - how would anyone other than a Stark know of these secret passageways? Theon lived there and I don't recall there being any indication that he knew of any passageways to get into/out of Winterfell and if he did then he would have taken Jeyne out that way and searched there for Bran and Rickon when they first went missing. I think it must be a Stark and that would leave Benjen. I think these passageways are old and connected to north of the wall also and Benjen has been using them for some purpose in order to prepare for the upcoming battle with the Others.

This is the thing, he could have easily come over the wall. It was mostly guarded by snowmen.

[QuoththeRaven]

It may be a bit O/T but when Theon and Lady Dustin went down to the crypts, and were observant enough to notice a few swords missing, why they wouldn't notice any "stink" you normally would associate with 6 people living in a crypt for days. The evidence would still be there and the way was blocked

[bemused]

I don't think it's so OT, I think Osha even comments about relieving herself on the foot of a king... and the door is properly closed and blocked ( Lady Dustins men have to heat and chip away the ice on the door seal ) yet Hodor had forced it open partway. Hints that someone had previously tidied up ,and made sure the door was well blocked ?

ETA: If the HM is Benjen , he could have been in the crypts and able to come and go through a secret outside entrance ,if there is one...And if there is one, I don't think it could be anyone other than Benjen . I suspect there could be some defense mechanism / spell incorporated in the passage , similar to the Black Gate , but for Starks.. Just a suspicion, but if there's old , Wall era magic binding the Starks and WF, a secret passage ( if there is one ) would not be there for just anyone's use.

But someone like Harwin ( or anyone else familiar with WF ) could have been among the squatters , and eluded capture by hiding in Bran's "secret" passage in the inside wall . It seems logical that it could have been fairly common knowledge , at least to potential defenders . There just wouldn't have been a need to use it , under normal circumstances.

I don't think Harwin should be ruled out because Theon believes him dead. I think Theon not only recognizes the HM , but does believe him to be dead . (One of the ghosts in WF) This could be why , though Theon himself wonders if the HM could be the killer , he doesn't mention the HM to Roose and the others , even to remove himself from suspicion.

Coming over the wall seems much less likely , much more risky for anyone on a secret mission .... but I guess it's not impossible.

I like the Benjen solution best , but it could be one of the others.... However , I think Ramsay is responsible for most of the killings ( just like before ) with the notable exception of Little Walder ( done in by Big Walder on Roose's orders , or at least with his knowledge )

[Revolver]

Is it known who the masked woman is who is following Dany? And who was the dude in the prologue of I think AFFC who assassinated Pate in the Citadel?

[FittleLinger]

Well your memory seems pretty good to me. It is definitely better than mine.

I have the kindle version - a search for "Harwin" in Dance shows in chapter 51: "They were all dead now. Jory, old Ser Rodrik, Lord Eddard, Harwin and Hullen, Cayn and Desmond and Fat Tom, Alyn with his dreams of knighthood, Mikken who had given him his first real sword. Even Old Nan, like as not."

This is almost exactly as you remembered:

Great catch. Chapter 51 is when Theon escapes with Jayne. The "Ghost in Winterfell" chapter where the Hooded Man appears before is this. So it's reasonable to think that the HM can't be anyone mentioned in this list or Theon would not think them dead. That definitely rules out Harwin as the HM.

Are you sure? Mulled Wino just made a pretty convincing argument that it can't be Harwin since Theon thinks Harwin is dead in the chapter after he meets the Hooded Man.

It is an argument, but it would make sense in the other direction. Theon thinks Harwin died in the sack of WInterfell, but we know he didn't, as we see him in the BWB later. Theon is crazy. Harwin is mentioned. It makes sense to me to be honest.

Is it known who the masked woman is who is following Dany? And who was the dude in the prologue of I think AFFC who assassinated Pate in the Citadel?

The masked woman is Quaithe, the shadowbinder from Asshai. There are theories she could be Shiera Seastar, I personally do not believe in them. The dude who kills Pate is Jaqen H'ghar, the faceless man. He is now posing as Pate.

[rmholt]

I don't think it's so OT, I think Osha even comments about relieving herself on the foot of a king... and the door is properly closed and blocked ( Lady Dustins men have to heat and chip away the ice on the door seal ) yet Hodor had forced it open partway. Hints that someone had previously tidied up ,and made sure the door was well blocked ?

ETA: If the HM is Benjen , he could have been in the crypts and able to come and go through a secret outside entrance ,if there is one...And if there is one, I don't think it could be anyone other than Benjen . I suspect there could be some defense mechanism / spell incorporated in the passage , similar to the Black Gate , but for Starks.. Just a suspicion, but if there's old , Wall era magic binding the Starks and WF, a secret passage ( if there is one ) would not be there for just anyone's use.

But someone like Harwin ( or anyone else familiar with WF ) could have been among the squatters , and eluded capture by hiding in Bran's "secret" passage in the inside wall . It seems logical that it could have been fairly common knowledge , at least to potential defenders . There just wouldn't have been a need to use it , under normal circumstances.

I don't think Harwin should be ruled out because Theon believes him dead. I think Theon not only recognizes the HM , but does believe him to be dead . (One of the ghosts in WF) This could be why , though Theon himself wonders if the HM could be the killer , he doesn't mention the HM to Roose and the others , even to remove himself from suspicion.

Coming over the wall seems much less likely , much more risky for anyone on a secret mission .... but I guess it's not impossible.

I like the Benjen solution best , but it could be one of the others.... However , I think Ramsay is responsible for most of the killings ( just like before ) with the notable exception of Little Walder ( done in by Big Walder on Roose's orders , or at least with his knowledge )

Yeah this

[mushroomshirt]

It is an argument, but it would make sense in the other direction. Theon thinks Harwin died in the sack of WInterfell, but we know he didn't, as we see him in the BWB later. Theon is crazy. Harwin is mentioned. It makes sense to me to be honest.

Why would Theon think that Harwin died at the sack of Winterfell? He didn't see Harwin there when he captured it.

I think Theon thinks Harwin died at kings landing like Fat Tom did. He thinks Alyn and Harwin died there too but they went with Beric where Alyn died but not Harwin.

Theon would be a very unreliable narrator indeed if he saw Harwin as the hooded man and then in his next chapter thinks of him as dead. How does this make any sense?

If Harwin is the hooded man are you saying that Theon didn't recognize him? Or that he is so crazy that he recognizes Harwin as the hooded man but thinks that he is a ghost and still lists him as dead when he thinks about him later?

[Sand Snake No. 9]

Whoever the hooded man is, he's highborn. No lowborn man would address Theon with such confidence and contempt, imo.

[ladyinblack]

Mance could turn his Glamor on and off, he did it in front of Jon and Theon would have no clue who he was, he may have been walking around with Rattle shirts face. He says the same thing to him the Spear wives do.

Don't really care much, I just want to see Ramsey get his ass kicked and then killed, slowly.

I wouldn't consider any outing without my Glamour turned on