Was Rhaegar prophecy obsessed or he really loved Lyanna?

[Bran The Burner]

He was an idiot.

Seriously, who the hell runs off with a Lord Paramount's daughter without telling anybody and thinks there will be no consequences?

I'm in the camp that he was prophecy obsessed. If he was in love, he'd have been a bit more logical about his actions.

I agree, for someone who receives so much praise, he was really stupid, if he did that because of some prophecy he was really crazy. And the worst of all is that he wasn't even man enough to face the consequences of his moronic idea, instead he hid in his love nest until all the shit had hit the fan.

[Nami]

really? A strong will ain't doing much damage to an armed guard.

So you think Rhaegar raped her for a whole year and kept her in chains or something? She couldn't escape? kill him while he slept? kill herself?

[Nami]

I agree, for someone who receives so much praise, he was really stupid, if he did that because of some prophecy he was really crazy. And the worst of all is that he wasn't even man enough to face the consequences of his moronic idea, instead he hid in his love nest until all the shit had hit the fan.

Going to the war he caused and dying is facing the consequences to me.

[The Duke]

really? A strong will ain't doing much damage to an armed guard.

So you think she just gave up and let herself be raped by a guy whom pretty much everyone who really knew him loved and admired him? Rhaegar doesn't come off as a rapist, and I think Lyanna Jon's mom by Rhaegar. Lyanna, like Brienne or Arya would likely die before before letting themselves get raped.

[Bran The Burner]

Going to the war he caused and dying is facing the consequences to me.

IIRC he didn't show up until much later, by then there wasn't much left to do. Where was he when Brandon was imprisoned or when he and his father were burned alive. No he was a coward and if Lyanna went willingly she was as despicable as Rhaegar, how can someone stay with one the responsibles for the deaths of a father and brother.

[eggs]

So you think Rhaegar raped her for a whole year and kept her in chains or something? She couldn't escape? kill him while he slept? kill herself?

So you think she just gave up and let herself be raped by a guy whom pretty much everyone who really knew him loved and admired him? Rhaegar doesn't come off as a rapist, and I think Lyanna Jon's mom by Rhaegar. Lyanna, like Brienne or Arya would likely die before before letting themselves get raped.

sorry guys. I didn't know that women chose to be raped. I thought it was done against their will.

Seriously though, you can't just say 'she a tough chick, she could've left if she wanted'. It doesn't really work like that. And no I don't think Rhaefar raped her. I just don't think Lyanna being hot blooded is proof of that.

[Nami]

IIRC he didn't show up until much later, by then there wasn't much left to do. Where was he when Brandon was imprisoned or when he and his father were burned alive. No he was a coward and if Lyanna went willingly she was as despicable as Rhaegar, how can someone stay with one the responsibles for the deaths of a father and brother.

You're assuming they knew about it and did nothing while being aware of everyone's deaths

The TOJ was a secluded place. I doubt they had a Maester there receiving messages anyway

You really think if Lyanna knew about her father and brother's death she would be chilling?

[The Duke]

IIRC he didn't show up until much later, by then there wasn't much left to do. Where was he when Brandon was imprisoned or when he and his father were burned alive. No he was a coward and if Lyanna went willingly she was as despicable as Rhaegar, how can someone stay with one the responsibles for the deaths of a father and brother.

Rhaegar is quoted by somebodies POV that he said there were going to be changes. It is speculated that he was going to either depose Aerys (more likely) or kill him (I don't think he'd be a kinslayer) and assume the throne.

[Bran The Burner]

I'll go with both. I'm in the camp who think Lyanna went willingly, happy to escape a bethrothal she didn't want to a whoremongering drunk who would never have been faithful to her. I think Rhaegar wooed her because of the prophecy, but genuinely loved her once they were together. A strong willed woman like Lyanna Stark is described wouldn't have stayed with someone who didn't love her, and Rhaegar doesn't seem like the raper type from every description we've heard of him.

It would be interesting if Lyanna didn't want to get married to Robert because he was a womanizer but had no qualms about sleeping with a married man.

[Nami]

sorry guys. I didn't know that women chose to be raped. I thought it was done against their will.

Seriously though, you can't just say 'she a tough chick, she could've left if she wanted'. It doesn't really work like that. And no I don't think Rhaefar raped her. I just don't think Lyanna being hot blooded is proof of that.

I didn't mean it like that

I meant that from the way she is described to us, she would find a way to kill him or do something to get out of that horrible situation, and that makes me believe it would be hard to kidnap her. She would put up a fight to not go with him maybe even leading to her own death.

[The Duke]

sorry guys. I didn't know that women chose to be raped. I thought it was done against their will.

Seriously though, you can't just say 'she a tough chick, she could've left if she wanted'. It doesn't really work like that. And no I don't think Rhaefar raped her. I just don't think Lyanna being hot blooded is proof of that.

Brienne would have made anyone who tried to rape her killer her first. She bit Hoat's dang ear off. Lyanna seems cut from that kind of cloth. And nobody said that she chose not to be raped, I said that she would make them kill her first. Do you think Rhagar had the legendary kings guard members whose memories are revered by Barristan Selmy hold her down while he raped her? Does that sound like the character that has been described. The only one who describes him like that is Robert, who actually hurts some women when he is having sex with them, he at least did it to Cersei that we know of.

[The Duke]

It would be interesting if Lyanna didn't want to get married to Robert because he was a womanizer but had no qualms about sleeping with a married man.

"The things we do for love" - Jaime Lannister

If she loved him, maybe not. Perhaps her opinion of Robert wasn't all that different that Cersei's. Whoremongering violent drunk.

[Nami]

"The things we do for love" - Jaime Lannister

If she loved him, maybe not. Perhaps her opinion of Robert wasn't all that different that Cersei's. Whoremongering violent drunk.

Cersei also calls him ignorant

[Bran The Burner]

You're assuming they knew about it and did nothing while being aware of everyone's deaths

The TOJ was a secluded place. I doubt they had a Maester there receiving messages anyway

You really think if Lyanna knew about her father and brother's death she would be chilling?

I'll agree with you that they probably didn't have ravens there, but I doubt he was completely cut off from civilization, a prince would not just disappear withtout letting someone know how to contact him even if that could take a while.

And even he didn't know anything, the right thing to do would be depose his father right away, apologize for what he did and try to reach a peace agreement with the rebels (Robert not included).

[Bran The Burner]

Sorry double post

[Artemis]

For some reason I believe Rhaegar to have been driven entirely by the prophecy.

Many readers view Rhaegar as a sympathetic character, especially because almost all of the various POVs in the books have held Rhaegar in high esteem. Characters consistently talk about Rhaegar's angst, his love for his harp, and singing, etc. If anything, through the eyes of the characters, he seems to fit the "Tortured Artist" trope almost seamlessly.

Except GRRM is all about saying "FU" to tropes; he subverts and turns them inside out. This is a man that likes toying with traditional archetypes found in literature. I'm wary of the man, tbh. Truth be told, it'd make Rhaegar a much more fascinating character in my eyes.

I always found this quote by Barristan very telling, especially because it's DIRECTLY before he tells Dany about Rheagar's complete 180 in character from a erudite young man to a warrior due to "something" he read in a book:

Dany turned back to the squire. “I know little of Rhaegar. Only the tales Viserys told, and he was a little boy when our brother died. What was he truly like?”

The old man considered a moment. “Able. That above all. Determined, deliberate, dutiful, single-minded." - A Storm of Swords

"Deliberate" and "dutiful" would not be the words I'd use to describe Rhaegar if fell in love with Lyanna. Dutiful to whom? Not Elia, certainly. To the realm? Perhaps, if he heeded the prophecy. Deliberate, how? Deliberate doesn't seem to leave much wiggle room for love.

Edit: Addition of quote

[The Duke]

Cersei also calls him ignorant

She's not wrong. His parties bankrupted the realm and he thought all the day to day stuff Jon Arryn did was dreary and dull and not worth his time.

[eggs]

Brienne would have made anyone who tried to rape her killer her first. She bit Hoat's dang ear off. Lyanna seems cut from that kind of cloth.

I doubt she could. she was only a young, slim girl.

Lyanna is also 6'6" tank, yes?

[Ser Barristan's Squire]

Are Lyanna's feelings for Rhaegar stated or hinted at anywhere in the text?

If Lyanna loved him and they ran off together I don't think that makes him a bad person or obsessed. Misguided definitely, but not evil or insane. However if she didn't share his feelings then I would lean toward the obsession side of the discussion.

[The Duke]

Are Lyanna's feelings for Rhaegar stated or hinted at anywhere in the text?

If Lyanna loved him and they ran off together I don't think that makes him a bad person or obsessed. Misguided definitely, but not evil or insane. However if she didn't share his feelings then I would lean toward the obsession side of the discussion.

The only thing we actually get is in Meera's tale to Bran that the Dragon Prince's song during the banquet brought tears to the she wolfs eyes. Most everything in this thread is speculation built upon other layers of speculation.