at what age would you hand a child the first book?

[Northern Nomad]

I've met that guy. You can't trust him!

Are you sure? The coconut with the face of Nicholas Cage, told me he was legit.

[Okaythen]

My son is 11 and an avid reader. Is he too young for ASOIAF? I'm normally of the opinion that books are self-censoring. If you don't understand what is going on it wont upset you. However that is probably wishful thinking on my part. I can remember reading for school "Catcher in the Rye" and "Lord of the Flies" at a similar age. The Holocaust is also covered at an earlier age now, and that's more upsetting as it was real. Anyways, enough rambling, what are your thoughts on this? Did your child read it at a similar age and is hardly psychopathic at all? Any young readers on the forum I'm especially interested in your views.

Depends on the child and your relationship with them.

For instance, when they read Danys first sex scene can you discuss the implications of the yes/no "foreplay"?

That scene more than any other would deter me from allowing my 11 year old as it isn't clearly one thing (rape) or the other (consensual).

[King Wayne-1st of His Name]

why are there so many references to rape?

I don't remember any rape in the books. I remember some rape references (the Mountain and Elia) and some threats (to Arya), but none actually happening.

Did I miss something? Or did something slip from my memory banks? I binge listened to the audiobooks so I don't remember every single detail, but I doubt that I would have forgotten someone getting raped.

[The Storm King]

17 or 18 :3

unless the child has already seen the tv show somehow and is mature enough to deal with it

[Lady Lea]

why are there so many references to rape?

I don't remember any rape in the books. I remember some rape references (the Mountain and Elia) and some threats (to Arya), but none actually happening.

Did I miss something? Or did something slip from my memory banks? I binge listened to the audiobooks so I don't remember every single detail, but I doubt that I would have forgotten someone getting raped.

Well off the top of my head "on screen" there's Dany and Drogo and Tyrion and the slave.

And then there are people talking about rapes that have happened, sometimes in detail (Cersei and Robert, Lollys, Elia, Tysha, Mirri Maz Durr, the Mountain and the inn girl, aaand there's a bunch more I think). Arya also describes a lot of rapes during her time with the Mountain. Oh and doesn't Victarion talk about some guy in his ship that was getting raped by everyone? And there's Aeron/Euron.

ETA: there are also other forms of sexual violence in the books, like Cersei's Walk of Shame.

[King Wayne-1st of His Name]

Referring to sexual violence, I can see that, especially with the Dothraki.

I'd classify what Victarion said on his ship as a threat and Dany with Drogo as the awkwardness of an arranged marriage.

And Cersei's Walk of Shame was so Westeros.

[Blueberry Stark]

Referring to sexual violence, I can see that, especially with the Dothraki.

I'd classify what Victarion said on his ship as a threat and Dany with Drogo as the awkwardness of an arranged marriage.

And Cersei's Walk of Shame was so Westeros.

The Maester on Victarion's ship gets raped, and when he complains about it to Victarion, Vic hands him a knife.

Dany is raped by Drogo. Their first sexual encounter is sweet enough, but he later takes her from behind while she muffled her crying into the pillow because it is so painful.

As Lady Lea pointed out, there's even more than she can remember, but I think that's quite a bit right there. It's truly strange what does and doesn't stand out to different people. After I read the series, all I could think was that there was as lot of rape in those books.

Also, Jeyne Poole, and possibly/probably Theon.

[Rickeen Baratheon]

If they wanted to read it, I'd let them.

[The Imperator]

I first started reading the books when I was 14-years-old and it was one of the best experiences of my life. Disturbing? Yes, but I could handle it. I would say it depends on the child, but I think a child can handle it when he/she is 13-years-old.

[Audrey Arryn]

Probably 16

[Lady Lea]

The Maester on Victarion's ship gets raped, and when he complains about it to Victarion, Vic hands him a knife.

Dany is raped by Drogo. Their first sexual encounter is sweet enough, but he later takes her from behind while she muffled her crying into the pillow because it is so painful.

As Lady Lea pointed out, there's even more than she can remember, but I think that's quite a bit right there. It's truly strange what does and doesn't stand out to different people. After I read the series, all I could think was that there was as lot of rape in those books.

Also, Jeyne Poole, and possibly/probably Theon.

Agreed on all accounts and yes - Jeyne Poole!! (not only with Ramsay but before). And there's Roose/Ramsay's mom and all the women Ramsay hunts/rapes/skins. Not to mention the necrophilia with Reek.

And Cersei's Walk of Shame was so Westeros.

It's "so" our world as well, considering it was based on a real-life event and still happens often enough in war contexts. It was standard practice in the Inquisition, plus I can think of a few reports from historical wars and too many to count from recent ones, enough for the ICTY to explicitly classify it as sexual violence and convict people for it.

[King Wayne-1st of His Name]

Also, I wasn't alive during the Inquisition. That's why I was throwing a small jape at Cersei's punishment being so Westeros because I assumed that we all know she should've been killed or something for incest.

[Blueberry Stark]

Also, I wasn't alive during the Inquisition. That's why I was throwing a small jape at Cersei's punishment being so Westeros because I assumed that we all know she should've been killed or something for incest.

The incest is the only one of Cersei's crimes that I don't think she deserves the death sentence for. However, I hope she survives to the end of the story wreaking havoc because I love her crazy ass! She's one of my favorites.

I feel like even though the violent content, esp the sexual violence, in the books is pretty severe, I don't see why a teenager shouldn't read the series. After all, it's a lot more disturbing to my mind to see it depicted in a film, and all adolescents nowadays watch crappy, violent films like Hostel. At least with ASoIaF, young readers will improve their vocabularies.

[Floris]

Not to child,i say a young man in his earlie 20-es,i began reading in 21 and for me almost evything in the book was normal...except the unexpected murders of good characters

[Lady Lea]

I'm sorry. I remember the books leaving it to the imagination what Ramsay was doing. My mind went past rape to assault, murder, flaying, cannibalism, teeth-pulling and torture. I also always assumed that Ramsay enjoyed taking dumps on Jeyne Poole and Reek too. I never thought of rape because rape seemed too normal for Ramsay.

Several characters mention it explicitly, including Theon (and Ramsay himself if I'm not mistaken). When the women give Ramsay a good sport, he rapes them and slits their throat. And then it's Reek's time to have sex with the corpse. But if the woman begs or doesn't run too far, Ramsay will rape them and skin them alive. It's also heavily implied that he's making Jeyne have sex with his dogs.

Oh I remembered another one! Jaime talks in quite a bit of detail about how Aerys used to rape his wife (Dany's mom, whatsername). And how it would look like she had fought a beast afterwards, with claw marks on her breasts. Oh! And there's the septon (I think it was the septon) describing the Rape of Saltpans and what had happened to the victims (breasts cut off or bitten off, etc).

Also, I wasn't alive during the Inquisition. That's why I was throwing a small jape at Cersei's punishment being so Westeros because I assumed that we all know she should've been killed or something for incest.

Seconding Blueberry Stark, the incest is the least I'm worried about wrt Cersei. She should be punished for torturing people but 1) she was only punished for having sex as a widow, and 2) sexual violence is not fit punishment for ANY crime.

I don't know exactly what GRRM intended with that scene but, though I liked Cersei before, I am now actively rooting for her. Team Cersei.

I feel like even though the violent content, esp the sexual violence, in the books is pretty severe, I don't see why a teenager shouldn't read the series. After all, it's a lot more disturbing to my mind to see it depicted in a film, and all adolescents nowadays watch crappy, violent films like Hostel. At least with ASoIaF, young readers will improve their vocabularies.

I don't know if I can agree. It's not about the sexual content for me, or that they'll be shocked by rape scenes or whatever, is that imo people under 16 will not fully understand the meaning and implication of the violence in the series (not just sexual violence) and the fact that everything on the page, happens in real life as well. ASOIAF isn't a gore film, I think the reader is supposed to think about every act of violence and how that reflects on the person committing them and what it means for the victim. Not only that but I think the book as a whole requires a bit of experience for the reader to understand characters' motivations and actions.

[King Wayne-1st of His Name]

I have the right words to say what I want to say now.

To me, mentioning violent things doesn't carry the same weight as a violent chapter. It's like the difference in seeing a murder photo and seeing a murder committed. Or, hearing a witness account versus being the witness. This is why I've been lost when people say that ASOIAF is heavy on rape. I was like "what rape?" There were not many rape instances to me.

Read Naked in Death by J.D. Robb to see what I am talking about. It makes the mentions of sexual violence in ASOIAF seem tame.

That is what I meant.

Back to the topic at hand, I wouldn't be opposed to my son at 10+ reading ASOIAF because he'll hear me and my wife and the local news mention violence and sexual violence. I wouldn't want my son to read Naked in Death until he's 14+ and practically a man grown.

[Opa Tywin]

I'd let him. If he feels that it's too much/too complicated for him, he'll put it down. Plus, ASOIAF is not really that disturbing. I mean, its fine literature, esp for fantasy, but books like War and Peace or Crime and Punishment or The Handmaids Tale have gone way harder on me.

[Lady Lea]

I have the right words to say what I want to say now.

To me, mentioning violent things doesn't carry the same weight as a violent chapter. It's like the difference in seeing a murder photo and seeing a murder committed. Or, hearing a witness account versus being the witness. This is why I've been lost when people say that ASOIAF is heavy on rape. I was like "what rape?" There were not many rape instances to me.

Read Naked in Death by J.D. Robb to see what I am talking about. It makes the mentions of sexual violence in ASOIAF seem tame.

That is what I meant.

Back to the topic at hand, I wouldn't be opposed to my son at 10+ reading ASOIAF because he'll hear me and my wife and the local news mention violence and sexual violence. I wouldn't want my son to read Naked in Death until he's 14+ and practically a man grown.

Having actually seen pictures of murders and heard countless witness accounts of rape, torture and murder IRL, I can't say I'm indifferent to that.

[Sordelor]

I read these kind of books sinceI was 8 years, so there's no problem with giving it.

[Barristan the G.O.A.T]

You can, I read such books when I was 11 years, so you can.

And you turned out a Bolton sympathizer.