Robb and the Red Wedding

[Raven in Winter]

this, 100x this.People never give Richard Madden enough credit. IMO he is in the Top 5 best actors on the show. Probably because almost every scene he is involved in has Michelle in it.

1. Sean Bean

2. Nickolaj Causter- Waldau

3. Michelle Fairley

4. Charles Dance

5. RICHARD MADDEN

6. Peter Dinklage

7. Lena Headey

8. Alfie Allen

9. Liam Cunningham

10. Kit Harrington

I don't know if it's just me but the guy who plays the Roose does a pretty good job. He's just how I thought he should be: disturbingly tranquil.

[complexphoenix]

If Robb and Catelyn's story arc wasn't the one that most appealed to you, I can she why its brutal ending wouldn't hit you so hard. Many other readers, myself included, were very fond of that arc and devastated by the Red Wedding. Every reader seems to enjoy some POV characters more than others, and it's very much a matter of personal taste.

[grand old duke of stark]

I don't know if it's just me but the guy who plays the Roose does a pretty good job. He's just how I thought he should be: disturbingly tranquil.

I agree. I'd take Kit Harrington off and put Conleth Hill (Varys) in instead. Otherwise, great list.

About Robb and the RW. It was defiance of the gods, it was betrayal, it was disproportionately bloody (they only had to kill Robb and a few of his commanders), it was cruel, it was gloating, unchivalric, and hubristic. Then they capped it off by desecrating Robb's body. It was repulsive...and fascinating. I suppose they considered killing Cat (not in their original plan) a mercy, but ... . And on top of it all was Arya;s heartbreak. And at first we didn't even know if she was alive.

As a Stark partisan, it crushed my hopes for vengeance for Ned and for re-ascendance of the family. The RW went against every rule of that society. But it was great writing (and TV too). I am not a hater, but I hate the Freys, Boltons, and Tywin. Well, at least Tywin got what he had coming. The only thing better would have been for his beloved Jaime to have shot him in the gut. Seriously, I think the wolves will emerge triumphant at the end of Book 7, but the RW was a gutpunch.

[Dorian Martell]

I don't know if it's just me but the guy who plays the Roose does a pretty good job. He's just how I thought he should be: disturbingly tranquil.

He in no way looks like Roose but he has the manners, attitude and temperament down perfect. I was looking forward to seeing him at the RW

[Raven in Winter]

He in no way looks like Roose but he has the manners, attitude and temperament down perfect. I was looking forward to seeing him at the RW

I agree about him not looking right, but then a lot of people in the show don't look like how their book incarnations are described. Tywin (Dance is great as Tywin though), Daario, Dany and Viserys (didn't have the purplish eyes), Tyrion (he lost his nose for Pete's sake!)just to name a few.

OT: poor Grey Wind being murdered was really sad too. I love the dire wolves .

[Tkhal]

I think Robb's death was tragic for four main reasons in my mind:

1. He seems to be the only Stark with any luck at all (discounting Jon and Catelyn as Snow and Tully). At this point in the series Eddard is missing a head, Arya has been surrounded by death and murder and has been constantly on the move, Sansa is being tortured by Joffrey, and Bran & Rickon are both on the run from Winterfell. Everyone tends to love the Starks, and Robb at this point seemed to be its savior/hero/rallying point.

2. He is one of the only war heroes that actually leads his men into battle. Tywin directs from behind, Stannis fought from the back lines, Tyrion got into the fray but I wouldn't call him a war hero simply because he isn't a good enough fighter (he was definitely the hero of the Battle of the Blackwater though), and Dany just directs her dragons and/or leaders to fight for her. The only other person who leads his army into battle is Jaime, and Robb defeated him when they went head to head.

3. He had not lost a battle. Despite the fact he has made some mistakes off the battlefield, he still has never lost a battle and therefore seems invincible. It is especially surprising in the show, in the books there is definitely a big lead in. I don't feel like looking it up but there is a quote in ASoS where Robb says to Catelyn something along the lines of, "I thought the battles were going to be the hard part, but I've won every one. It's the decisions off the battlefield that have come back to haunt me. I should have listened to you about Theon... etc." So I guess in the book you kind of can feel Robb's war slipping away from him, at a first read you might sense something is going to happen, but I don't think most people were expecting him to be murdered like that.

4. It's done in such a cowardly way. I don't think I need to explain this one.

Also I loved him ever since the scene where they proclaim him the King in the North... gave me chills both in the book and in the show.

[Ours if the Fury]

He is very much a main character, just becasue he isnt a pov doesnt mean they are not main...

people say this about people like Varys as well and i cant understand he is very much a main character... along with people like little finger, jorah mormont etc.

[Shadrich]

He is very much a main character, just becasue he isnt a pov doesnt mean they are not main...

people say this about people like Varys as well and i cant understand he is very much a main character... along with people like little finger, jorah mormont etc.

:agree: They are probably more 'main' characters than some of the POV characters

As to OP - it was brutal, and it was cowardly done. If they were not with Robb any more, they could have closed the bridge off and let him be. Not do, what they did.

[DormeDwayne]

I can't be sure, because it's been a long time since I've read aSoS for the first time, but if I remember correctly neither Robb nor Catelyn were favourites of mine at all. What shocked me was:

- the unexpected twist: OK, one main character has died already, but the Red Wedding brings things to a whole new level and at that point it's unexpected and shocking;

- the back-stabbingness (yes, I know this isn't a word :D ) of it - it's just so cowardly, lowly and contemptible!

- the massiveness of it; while I was shocked about Catelyn and Robb it was the deaths of the others that got to me most; they, unlike Robb, had done nothing wrong and they had lives, families, hopes and fears of their own - we never got to know about them and now they're dead to avenge something they hadn't done in the first place; it's cruel, senseless;

- the end of a story arc I've been led to believe I was supposed to care about; we're first introduced to the Starks through their POV characters; and while neither Robb not Catelyn were among my favourite characters, I still could relate to them much better than to Arya, Bran or Rickon; which means the Red Wedding leaves me with no Stark character to look forward to and like and that's confusing because I though we were supposed to care about the Starks a bit more than the others.