Ned Stark in TWOW (confirmed?)

[Aeron_Damphair]

The troll is getting a bountiful meal tonight.

[DewieCox]

There may have been a little room for speculation on the matter, but the tv series completely ended any possibility of Ned being mummered out if his cell.

I do really like the Jaime's hand replacing Ned's head idea, or just find the goldsmith that made the hand and have them do a Ned head.

[NedFlanderStark]

And what "strong textual evidence" have you provided?

Do I really need to break it all down again? The short version:

-Varys has smuggled people out King's Landing before and he had incentive to do so with Ned

-Sansa is the only POV in GoT that supposedly "saw" him die. She's not a reliable POV character (Hound kiss)

-Cat & Robb died as part of the Wolves Prophecy (check GRRM's blog)

-Cat (before she was sacrificed) has "Ned's" bones & body sent back to her and she flat out says that it's not Ned

-Ned is the stranger in Winterfell that Theon sees

-There must always be a Stark in Winterfell

Now that I've presented my argument with text can somebody please use TEXT to refute this? No flames and serious replies only please

[The Crow's Third Eye]

It would help if you would explain this wolves prophecy please

[jet199]

If Ned isn't dead then he must be a greenseer because he seemed to be able to talk to Arya pretty clearly through the weirwood. Also appear to Bran, Rickon and Jon in their dreams. I think it's more likely that his spirit has gone into the trees.

[The Crow's Third Eye]

Do I really need to break it all down again? The short version:

1) Varys has smuggled people out King's Landing before and he had incentive to do so with Ned

2) -Sansa is the only POV in GoT that supposedly "saw" him die. She's not a reliable POV character (Hound kiss)

3) Cat & Robb died as part of the Wolves Prophecy (check GRRM's blog)

-Cat (before she was sacrificed) has "Ned's" bones & body sent back to her and she flat out says that it's not Ned

4) Ned is the stranger in Winterfell that Theon sees

5( There must always be a Stark in Winterfell

Now that I've presented my argument with text can somebody please use TEXT to refute this? No flames and serious replies only please

1) Then why did Varya react in such a shocked and panicked way when Joffery declared that Ned would be beheaded. Remember that Varys believed Ned would be pardoned and sent to the Wall, as did Cersei. He didnt think it necessary to.amuggle him out

2) Cersei also witnessed it, as she remembers in Dance before her POV. Arya saw her father at the Sept. Admittedly she didnt see him beheaded butbshe at least heard. Yoren would have seen if he wasnt killed and i'm sure he would have mentioned.

3) I wont comment because I dont know what this Wolves Prophecy you refer to is

4) not textual evidence. Thats assumption based on no facts whatsoever. Dont you think Theon would react more strongly to seeing his 10 year foster father who is supposed to be dead? Who's sons Theon has "killed"

5) While that is a saying with power, that does not mean there always will be. Some have theorised that the lack of a Stark in WF is why there is so much upheaval atm. Others theorise Benjen is the hooded man in WF. Personally idk but see no reason to think its Ned.

Other points:

Bran and Rickon both dream of Ned in the crypts, after which they receive a raven bearing news of his death.

Why would Ned sit in Essos and watch the ruin of his family? It goes against everything we know of him.

[ghosts in winterfell]

Do I really need to break it all down again? The short version:

-Varys has smuggled people out King's Landing before and he had incentive to do so with Ned

-Sansa is the only POV in GoT that supposedly "saw" him die. She's not a reliable POV character (Hound kiss)

-Cat & Robb died as part of the Wolves Prophecy (check GRRM's blog)

-Cat (before she was sacrificed) has "Ned's" bones & body sent back to her and she flat out says that it's not Ned

-Ned is the stranger in Winterfell that Theon sees

-There must always be a Stark in Winterfell

Now that I've presented my argument with text can somebody please use TEXT to refute this? No flames and serious replies only please

- Varys already struck a deal with Ned for him to plead guilty and take the Black. Even he was surprised that Joffrey was deviating from the plan. Was Joffrey apart of this alleged plot to smuggle Ned out too? The only person we know for a fact that Varys helped escape King's Landing was Tyrion.

- Sansa has a false memory of a single event (which btw occurred long after Ned's beheading), therefore everything she witnesses is unreliable? No. Cersei witnessed this as well, and so did the population of King's Landing.

- Wolves Prophecy? You're the one who's obligated to provide the evidence, so go ahead and post it.

- There is not a single shred of textual evidence to prove that Ned is the Hooded Man, and very little evidence that it was anyone other than a complete stranger.

- There must always be a Stark in Winterfell, but nothing about this statement proves that Ned is still alive.

Again, what textual evidence do you have?

[Shadrich]

-Cat (before she was sacrificed) has "Ned's" bones & body sent back to her and she flat out says that it's not Ned

I had no idea Cat knew what Ned's bones looked like. X-Ray vision? Do Ned's bones have any special mark on them, that only Cat could recognize?

Very strong point there. Well done.

Now that I've presented my argument with text can somebody please use TEXT to refute this? No flames and serious replies only please

This always gets me.

[BaleTheGuard]

The biggest problem I have with, not just this one, but EVERY theory in which Ned Stark is potentially alive and well, is the following: what narrative purpose would it serve?

Forget the nigh irrefutable textual evidence that Ned is Dead. Forget the fact that his head was rotting on a spike above the gates of King's Landing for months, for all to see. If Ned is alive, what narrative purpose does it serve? His execution is the punctuation point on the first book. It establishes that no one is safe in the Game of Thrones, sets up the Wot5K, and is really the jump-off point for the rest of the story as we know it today. If Ned turns up alive, chilling in Essos for no god damned good reason at all, everything that's happened up to this point in the story is basically moot.

It's just bad storytelling, and if there's anything we know about George, it's that he's a damned great storyteller.

ETA: This isn't really a knock on the OP, as it seems incredibly clear to everyone that he/she is obviously trolling, but really just my own musings on the topic.

[Nymeria09]

Ned is obviously alive ... He's the Kindly man, it's so obvious!! He knows when Arya is lying because he's her FATHER!!

You guys need to pay more attention to the books

[Blazfemur]

Now that I've presented my argument with text can somebody please use TEXT to refute this? No flames and serious replies only please

clearly, somebody please look up his textual evidence to back up his own theory for him, even though he's the one that brought up the theory?

No for real guys. Ned's alive and well. Melisandre pulled a switcheroo, it's actually the "real" Stannis Baratheon that was beheaded in the sept of baelor, and Ned Stark is now glamoured into the "fake" Stannis Baratheon. thats why he grinds his teeth. winter has come, and he's cold.

Azor Ahai reborn is Ned Stark glamoured as Stannis Baratheon. problem solved. it is known.

[Blazfemur]

clearly you all just watch the show and dont read the books.

[BaleTheGuard]

Ned is obviously alive ... He's the Kindly man, it's so obvious!! He knows when Arya is lying because he's her FATHER!!

You guys need to pay more attention to the books

Right, so, Ned Stark suddenly decides that the Old Gods that he's been so devout to for the last thirty-five years of his natural life are a lie, and turns to the House of Black and White? That's the story now?

[NedFlanderStark]

My point is that Varys set it up before to have a royal figure (Aegon) supposedly killed but was really smuggled away. Why couldn't he have provided a Ned mask to some flea bottom dirtbag to take the fall, smuggled Ned out, and then compensated the flea bottom dirtbag's family? The same thing he did with Aegon? It's unbelievable he could do it with a baby but not a grown man who would be working with him?

Also, he might not be in Essos. That was just one theory. He could easily be in Dorne biding his time with Doran or in the Stepstones waiting for the Wolves Prophecy to be completed.

[The Crow's Third Eye]

Just noticed that this is brought to us by the author of the thread Daenerys Frey, in which the OP claims Daenerys will almost definitely wed Walder Frey. Why make an account for such things *sigh*

[Blazfemur]

on a side note, which may end up having more viability, i actually truly believe Stannis Baratheon, isnt, Stannis Baratheon. hes someone else

[Lord Thornhart]

The credibility of this story cannot survive another character coming back from the grave. It's cool the first few times, but shouldn't be overdone.

[Blazfemur]

lmao, Wolves Prophecy.

[Hajk]

Dear OP,

I think you have made a crucial mistake in the theory. The mistake is that you have pointed at the wrong mastermind here. The culprit is not Varys. It has to be Littlefinger.

-In Bran's vision, the overarching presence he sees over his sisters is a stone giant with nothing in place of the face. Some thing it is Robert Strong. But he has no such influence on the girls. Another way to see it is that this is the Titan of Braavos with no face only blood; i.e. the Faceless men of Braavos. They have had an influence on Arya, but what about Sansa? Remember Littlefinger comes from Braavos (his father etc.) and have the Titan as a symbol for the family. If the Faceless one's are a sort of intelligence agency, related to the Iron Bank of Braavos (an institution that has managed to have a fearsome reputation in this faithless world), there could be a link to Littlefinger as well. He is the only one who isn't surprised at the execution. This could account for the Faceless men having an influence on both Arya and Sansa.

-Jaqen H'ghar, whose entire interaction with Arya, starting from his excuse about having to serve people to the 'Red God' (not the many faced god) , has never made sense, came from the Black cells. Who else was recently in the Black cells? Ned Stark. Jaqen put her on the path to becoming one of the Faceless men.

-While Varys hates sorcery, there is no such indication for LF. And the Faceless men certainly do not. The whole 'Red God' connection reminds one of Melisandre, and her burning of another man (a public execution of 'Mance Rayder' which turns out to be a Glamour). perhaps the same could have happened here and that is an indication of this.

-In this then, Ned Stark would not be in Essos (or wherever) voluntarily, but the FM could keep him in their posession until they see a good reason to play this card.

-Ned, if around, can solve a major problem with little in the way of a satisfactory solution (although some have been proposed), i.e. how to reveal Jon's true heritage and do so in a way that people may believe.

-

[Good Guy Garlan]

My point is that Varys set it up before to have a royal figure (Aegon) supposedly killed but was really smuggled away. Why couldn't he have provided a Ned mask to some flea bottom dirtbag to take the fall, smuggled Ned out, and then compensated the flea bottom dirtbag's family? The same thing he did with Aegon? It's unbelievable he could do it with a baby but not a grown man who would be working with him?

Also, he might not be in Essos. That was just one theory. He could easily be in Dorne biding his time with Doran or in the Stepstones waiting for the Wolves Prophecy to be completed.

A Ned mask

A Ned mask

A Ned mask

Really?