The Key to the Westerlands

[Lady Howell]

I sort of addressed this another thread about Sansa's potential movements once she became a player. One these moves was too use one of the male Lannisters to usurp Cersei's power in the Westerlands, her main, if not only source of power outside King's Landing.

The general idea of that little bit of speculation is that because Cersei was a Queen in disgrace all the way in King's Landing, a woman, and has virtually no one there to fight for her claim, someone could easily take one of her male relatives and install him to the family seat. Then, using that male heir as a puppet ruler, they could disown Cersei and cut off the Iron Throne from the Westerland's riches and armies and use it to their own advantage under some threat (most likely their life or another's life, or perhaps blackmail).

Now, assuming that this logic could work, who would be the prime target---aka "The Key"--for this scheme.

A few options would be:

Lancel Lannister: I initially dismissed him as an option when someone pointed out he was a Warrior's Son now, but then I thought that the Warrior's Sons could be sent to fight just about any enemy in Westeros who does not worship the Seven. Which is almost all the players for the IT at this point.

The Greyjoys certainly don't worship the Seven.

Sansa, even though she does worship the Seven along with the Old Gods, could easily painted as "heathen" by her detractors just by being from the North, thus making the Faith at least a potential enemy in the future if she became a player.

Daenerys, being from Essos, could also be painted as a heathen and have the Faith set against her.

Jon worships the Old Gods.

Stannis has the Red Priestess and R'hollor on his side, which does not earn him any points with the High Septon.

The point is that the Warrior's Sons could be sent by the Faith Militant to fight any of these guys, and with them goes Lancel. In battle, Lancel could be taken captive and used not only for bartering, but also as a key to the Westerlands.

Lancel is the eldest son of Kevan Lannister, Cersei's uncle, who was the eldest Lannister son after Tywin. Lancel may be virtually spineless from what we've seen of him, but he has something Cersei doesn't: a penis. Add that to simply being in the Westerlands rather than miles and miles away in King's Landing, and people might just be more willing to have him as a ruler than her. The fact he's spineless would also help the player using him as a puppet. He's seemingly very easy to control. Plus, if the person controlling him had Tyrion or Jaime supporting them (Tyrion; Daenerys or Jaime; Sansa), Lancel's claim becomes even stronger in the eyes of even those against the people controlling him.

Another option is Lancel's little brother, Martyn Lannister:

Martyn was alive and well last time we saw him when he was released at Golden Tooth, in the Westerlands. He has not been moved since as far as we know, and may very well be at Casterly Rock, or perhaps squiring for a house in the Westerlands. In a campaign on the Westerlands, finding Martyn and taking him hostage would be a great opportunity. Not only would he be a great bartering chip, but like Lancel, he has a good claim to Casterly Rock. Better than Cersei's due to her failing reputation, her distance from the region, and her gender. Martyn, due to his youth, not only could be used as a puppet, but also be raised to be a good lord for the Westerlands and an ally to whomever's using him as a puppet (thanks to some good old brainwashing fostering). Martyn's claim could also be better than Lancel's as well, because Lancel had to give up claims for the Warrior's Sons. Which is a bonus. The draw back in his claim is that he is very young still, and technically has three male relatives that would be ahead of him for the claim if not for certain circumstances.

And how could I end this post without mentioning the missing and possibly deceased Tyrek Lannister:

We have no clue if this kid is dead or alive, who has him or what, so I can't say much about him except that his claim is perhaps better than Martyn's because he's probably older than Martyn. But at the same time, if he suddenly reappeared, his legitimacy would be in question. Having to battle over the legitimacy over their puppet's claim is not something I think any of the players want to have to do in order to take control of the Westerlands, especially when they have their own claims to fight for as well. Also, since we don't know where he is--if he's alive--we don't know how any of the players could come into possession of him. Most likely through Varys, yes, but still, circumstances are kind of hard to imagine without a lot of speculation.

So, who do you think is the key to the Westerlands?

[King of Winters]

I think there's a good chance that Varys has Tyrek somewhere and is planning to use him for something important, probably to do with Casterly Rock and the Westerlands and cutting Cersei off from the the West.

[The Kinkslayer]

The westrons would accept the headless body of Gregor Clegane as LP before LittleSansa's puppet regime.

[Lady Howell]

The westrons would accept the headless body of Gregor Clegane as LP before LittleSansa's puppet regime.

It doesn't have to be Sansa. It could basically be any of the Players or potential future Players. Dany, Euron, Victarion maybe, Asha, Stannis, Jon, fAegon, or whomever else pops up.

Plus, they don't need to necessarily know it's a puppet regime.

[Lady Howell]

I think there's a good chance that Varys has Tyrek somewhere and is planning to use him for something important, probably to do with Casterly Rock and the Westerlands and cutting Cersei off from the the West.

Yeah, I get the same feeling. I'm pretty sure Varys has Tyrek. There's very little doubt in my mind, personally. But I have a hard time imagining how Tyrek appears on the scene again. Maybe for a lack of imagination, but only a few scenarios come to mind.

A rider in the night carrying a young man tied up and slung over the back on his saddle, maybe?

A secret meeting between [insert character here] and some mystery man cloaked in black. Cue door opening and Tyrek being escorted in and handed over to [insert character here] to use to get the Westerlands or...whatever really I suppose.

The reason I didn't delve too deep into is because my mind is kind of dry on ideas on how to could happen. Which is a pretty lame excuse, I know.

[Petyr_Baelish_is_cool]

What about Daven siding with one of players against Cersei? Or Jaime?

[Ser Naufragus]

If Sansa was a super player she would figure out that she herself is technically Lady of Casterly Rock. Casterly Rock is technically Tyrion's and Sansa is technically Tryion's wife.

[Zizoz]

Yeah, I've been thinking recently that Sansa could claim Casterly Rock in Tyrion's name. It would give her her own power-base (as long as Tyrion is missing, anyway) without requiring her to remarry, which we know she doesn't want to.

As for how she would do it... it occurs to me that not far from Sansa's current location in the Vale are a lot of clansmen with loyalty to Tyrion.

[Fat Mac]

If Sansa was a super player she would figure out that she herself is technically Lady of Casterly Rock. Casterly Rock is technically Tyrion's and Sansa is technically Tryion's wife.

 

Casterly Rock is technically Cersei's. Tyrion can't claim Casterly Rock through legality, though of course he could take it by force. 

[Ser Naufragus]

Casterly Rock is technically Cersei's. Tyrion can't claim Casterly Rock through legality, though of course he could take it by force.

Why not, he was the heir and Tywin is dead making him Lord of Casterly Rock. There is no law that blocks his inheritance. He is just on the run and Cersai just claimed it. Legally it is Tyrions unless Tommen stripped him of it.

[Boarsbane]

Why not, he was the heir and Tywin is dead making him Lord of Casterly Rock. There is no law that blocks his inheritance. He is just on the run and Cersai just claimed it. Legally it is Tyrions unless Tommen stripped him of it.

He is the one who killed Tywin. If sons are allowed to just kill their fathers and inherit their seats I think we would see it a lot more often.

[Fat Mac]

Why not, he was the heir and Tywin is dead making him Lord of Casterly Rock. There is no law that blocks his inheritance. He is just on the run and Cersai just claimed it. Legally it is Tyrions unless Tommen stripped him of it.

 

Tyrion is a convicted kingslayer and kinslayer. The crown can attaint who they wish, and the fact that Cersei is lady of the Rock (without objection, I might add) after Tywin's death means Tyrion was taken out of the line of succession. I doubt that Tyrion is legally considered Lord of Casterly Rock.

 

On top of that, no one will rally around him should he try to claim it. Tyrion is a dwarf and very few people like him. 

[Ramsay Gimp]

 Tyrion is a dwarf and very few people like him. 

 

Yea,  Tyrion may be even more hated than his sister. It seems that Jaime has actually become the most respected of the Lannister siblings, mostly by default

 

Tyrion can only hold power through others, like he did in ACOK and may again in Mereen. He can never rule in his own name

[Ser Naufragus]

Tyrion is a convicted kingslayer and kinslayer. The crown can attaint who they wish, and the fact that Cersei is lady of the Rock (without objection, I might add) after Tywin's death means Tyrion was taken out of the line of succession. I doubt that Tyrion is legally considered Lord of Casterly Rock.
 
On top of that, no one will rally around him should he try to claim it. Tyrion is a dwarf and very few people like him.

yes of course, but I don't recall him ever "officially" being attainted in the text. It seems really likely but then again I can see Cersai just never bothering.

the point is really that Sansa could press Tyrions claim whether he was disinherited or not.

[Boarsbane]

yes of course, but I don't recall him ever "officially" being attainted in the text. It seems really likely but then again I can see Cersai just never bothering.the point is really that Sansa could press Tyrions claim whether he was disinherited or not.

Why would she? The Westerlands have no love for the Starks, many probably despise them. She has no claim, a son would but she doesn't especially considering how many true Lannisters are still alive.