The Change in Quaithe’s Warning

[Mithras]

Here is an old version of Dany II from ADwD. There is a notable difference in the original version of Quaihe’s warning.

“The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare. After her will come the others. Crow and kraken, lion and griffin, the sun’s son and the mummer’s dragon. Remember the undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal.”

Below is the published version.

“The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun’s son and the mummer’s dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal.”

What do you think about these changes?

[Game Of Thrones]

Maybe Euron was supposed to accompany Vic, and GRRM decided to add Moqorro instead?

[John Doe]

Maybe "Kraken" already refers to Euron, so it wasn't necessary to mention the "Crow".

[Game Of Thrones]

Maybe "Kraken" already refers to Euron, so it wasn't necessary to mention the "Crow".

Victarion is the Kraken.

[John Doe]

Not necessarily.

[+cassius]

Crow and Kraken would be too obvious to Euron

dunno

[John Doe]

I might be a little bit slow, but Quaithe seems to mention all the people who want Dany to go to Westeros, so "trust none of them" might not refer to the persons, but to some danger that awaits Dany i that direction, or Quaithe simply wants Dany to stay in Essos, hence "to go west you must go east".

[Mithras]

Euron was a drowned crow in GHH's dream. So, I agree that the crow refers to Euron. But this thing dates from shortly after the release of AFfC, where Euron already decided to send Victarion to Meereen in his stead.

Another important thing is the addition of “Trust none of them.”

[Game Of Thrones]

I might be a little bit slow, but Quaithe seems to mention all the people who want Dany to go to Westeros, so "trust none of them" might not refer to the persons, but to some danger that awaits Dany i that direction, or Quaithe simply wants Dany to stay in Essos, hence "to go west you must go east".

No, they're all the people coming to Dany: Moqorro, Victarion, fAegon, JonCon, Tyrion...

[John Doe]

I know. But everyone mentioned in the prophecy wants Dany to go to Westeros, as I said. This is the only similiarity of them I can think of.

[Loic]

Very interesting, I didn't know about that!

I'll try to break it down and pose some questions, since Quaithe is pretty much cryptic...

The glass candles are burning. Seems pretty straightforward to me. Soon comes the pale mare, Same, it should be the epidemic at Mereen, I think and after her the others. I wonder if the term others may be better with a capital "O"?

Crow and kraken/Kraken and dark flame 1 the term kraken's always there, it should be Vic.

2 She uses "crow" instead of raven or another bird, so if there's a textual connection it should be with either the NW or Euron. However in Moqorro's vision Euron's simbology is slightly different. In any case I don't see why Euron and Vic should have gone together for Dany... (Edit: ah, it was after AFfC... I stand corrected.)

Maybe GRRM wasn't sure about Moqorro's future characterization? Both crow and dark flame feel somehow dark, and crows in this series are usually omen of bad news...

3 Or we are speaking of a literal crow, unlikely... but the prophecy doesn't only talk about people so we can't rule it out.

lion and griffin should be Tyrion and Jon Connington, the sun’s son and the mummer’s dragon Quentyn and fAegon. I don't get the pairings, however, since Jon and fAegon are supposed to come together and Tyrion is currently on a different path. Maybe Quentyn and fAegon are paired together since they are both pretenders, unlike the other two?

Trust none of them. Interesting add, if anything. If we knew about Quaithe's real motivation I could elaborate further... is it a real advice? A misdirection? Up until now Tyrion and Victarion can't be really regarded as guys Dany should trust, and while Quentyn seemed a nice guy his interest was Dorne only.

Remember the Undying. Why? I think here I'm missing something important. Are they to be remembered because they taught Dany a lesson, because they died a fancy death, because of they undead-like nature?

Interesting to know that they aren't put in the cathegory of people "not to be trusted"...

Beware the perfumed seneschal. Same as the Undying, that makes me believe even more in the theory that the seneschal isn't an actual person.

Lots of questions and very few considerations... it's cryptic as hell.

[Game Of Thrones]

I know. But everyone mentioned in the prophecy wants Dany to go to Westeros, as I said. This is the only similiarity of them I can think of.

And that their destination at that point in ADWD is all Dany.

Actually, Moqorro wants to convert her and presumably make her come to Volantis to free the slaves, not bring her to Westeros.

[John Doe]

He thinks of her as Azhor Ahai, and in that case her enemys (the Others) are in Westeros. In any case the general direction is west, opposed to the one Quaithe seens to have in mind for Dany, the east. And I think they have a similarity other than going to Dany, because just coming to her doesn't make a warning necessary.

[John Doe]

Very interesting, I didn't know about that!

I'll try to break it down and pose some questions, since Quaithe is pretty much cryptic...

The glass candles are burning. Seems pretty straightforward to me. Soon comes the pale mare, Same, it should be the epidemic at Mereen, I think and after her the others. I wonder if the term others may be better with a capital "O"?

Crow and kraken/Kraken and dark flame 1 the term kraken's always there, it should be Vic.

2 She uses "crow" instead of raven or another bird, so if there's a textual connection it should be with either the NW or Euron. However in Moqorro's vision Euron's simbology is slightly different. In any case I don't see why Euron and Vic should have gone together for Dany... (Edit: ah, it was after AFfC... I stand corrected.)

Maybe GRRM wasn't sure about Moqorro's future characterization? Both crow and dark flame feel somehow dark, and crows in this series are usually omen of bad news...

3 Or we are speaking of a literal crow, unlikely... but the prophecy doesn't only talk about people so we can't rule it out.

lion and griffin should be Tyrion and Jon Connington, the sun’s son and the mummer’s dragon Quentyn and fAegon. I don't get the pairings, however, since Jon and fAegon are supposed to come together and Tyrion is currently on a different path. Maybe Quentyn and fAegon are paired together since they are both pretenders, unlike the other two?

Trust none of them. Interesting add, if anything. If we knew about Quaithe's real motivation I could elaborate further... is it a real advice? A misdirection? Up until now Tyrion and Victarion can't be really regarded as guys Dany should trust, and while Quentyn seemed a nice guy his interest was Dorne only.

Remember the Undying. Why? I think here I'm missing something important. Are they to be remembered because they taught Dany a lesson, because they died a fancy death, because of they undead-like nature?

Interesting to know that they aren't put in the cathegory of people "not to be trusted"...

Beware the perfumed seneschal. Same as the Undying, that makes me believe even more in the theory that the seneschal isn't an actual person.

Lots of questions and very few considerations... it's cryptic as hell.

Well, I think the pairings might refer to the kind of harm they might do to Dany. For example, both the Sun's Son and the Mummer's Dragon might be after her dragons., the Kraken and the Crow want to marry her etc. The Lion and Griffen both want to get their status as Lords back.

[Game Of Thrones]

He thinks of her as Azhor Ahai, and in that case her enemys (the Others) are in Westeros. In any case the general direction is west, opposed to the one Quaithe seens to have in mind for Dany, the east. And I think they have a similarity other than going to Dany, because just coming to her doesn't make a warning necessary.

So far as we know, Moqorro, or any other Red Priest other than Mel, is not aware of the Others.

Another similarity is that none of them have Dany's best interests in mind. Four of the six wants to marry her, another wants to convert her and Tyrion doesn't really care at all about Dany.

[jon rhaegar stark]

He thinks of her as Azhor Ahai, and in that case her enemys (the Others) are in Westeros. In any case the general direction is west, opposed to the one Quaithe seens to have in mind for Dany, the east. And I think they have a similarity other than going to Dany, because just coming to her doesn't make a warning necessary.

because they are all seeking her for their own gain ....she went east not west and look what she has now an army and Daenarys will go to westeros herself not because someone needs her for their own gain

[John Doe]

Hizdahr has also not Dany's best interests in mind, but isn't included in any prophecy. I think there might be more.

[Game Of Thrones]

Hizdahr has also not Dany's best interests in mind, but isn't included in any prophecy. I think there might be more.

That's because Hizdahr is such a pathetic villain who accomplishes exactly nothing.

[Loic]

That's because Hizdahr is such a pathetic villain who accomplishes exactly nothing.

But is he a villain? All he wants is to restore peace and the previous government, the locust poisoning attempt isn't his and the request of having the dragons killed seems pretty fucking reasonable. Actually he's one of the very few characters who doesn't want to exploit them.

[John Doe]

Threatening to kill her dragons is one of the worst things anyone could do to her. Was Quentyn a villain? It doesn't matter whether the characters featured in the prophecy are villains or not.