yankee211 Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 A lot of people believe that Stannis wrote the letter because he wants to have Jon out of castle black for the purpose of saving Arya. I read the chapter again, it's not Ramsey because he didn't stamp his Bolton mark and he usually send a person's body parts or something. Lastly, I don't know how Mance could have the time to write it because what is going down at Winterfell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rrachel Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 I've read all those theories and I still can't convince myself to stick to one of them. The big question for me in all of them is that Mance's identity was a secret for everyone but for Jon and Melisandre... so how could Stannis write that assuming things of a men he burned alive himself? Some people could say 'Melisandrae told Stannis' but this goes against the reasons of why she didn't told him in the first place... Melisandre keeps the secret from Stannis due to Stannis's strict code of following the law. Knowing Stannis, we know he's a straight men and is hard to think he would write that kind of letter. Stannis neither had knowledge that Mance/Rattleshirt went to rescue Arya with his 6 spearwives. The only way someone could write that, is knowing Mance's identity. So I have two paths: 1) It was indeed Ramsay and all the things written are true. 2) It was someone inside Castle Black that wanted Jon to break the bows of the Night Watch in front of everyone so people who still had faith in him after all the decitions against the night watch's men he took, could finally realise he was going against the bows on not taking part of the Kingdom's disputes. The second point is a thing I'm starting to suspect, since just after he read it, he was inmediatly killed/injured and the rebelion started against him. A rebelion that was being planned long ago as Melisandre saw on her fire. So is not hard to belive that it might just have been a plan from the Night Watch crew that was hating Jon Snow. The last thing would make sense to me since Melisandre knew about Mance and she might have been planning it with the Queen's men or helping men from the Night Watch to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yankee211 Posted November 25, 2014 Author Share Posted November 25, 2014 I've read all those theories and I still can't convince myself to stick to one of them. The big question for me in all of them is that Mance's identity was a secret for everyone but for Jon and Melisandre... so how could Stannis write that assuming things of a men he burned alive himself? Some people could say 'Melisandrae told Stannis' but this goes against the reasons of why she didn't told him in the first place... Melisandre keeps the secret from Stannis due to Stannis's strict code of following the law. Knowing Stannis, we know he's a straight men and is hard to think he would write that kind of letter. Stannis neither had knowledge that Mance/Rattleshirt went to rescue Arya with his 6 spearwives. The only way someone could write that, is knowing Mance's identity. So I have two paths: Bare with me, I think Stannis fakes his own death in the letter. I think he has three ravens, the one he sent back to Winterfell and that's how Roose knows where Stannis was at. Stannis caught a measter and took his ravens. I have to do some re-reading but correct me if I am wrong. 1) It was indeed Ramsay and all the things written are true. 2) It was someone inside Castle Black that wanted Jon to break the bows of the Night Watch in front of everyone so people who still had faith in him after all the decitions against the night watch's men he took, could finally realise he was going against the bows on not taking part of the Kingdom's disputes. The second point is a thing I'm starting to suspect, since just after he read it, he was inmediatly killed/injured and the rebelion started against him. A rebelion that was being planned long ago as Melisandre saw on her fire. So is not hard to belive that it might just have been a plan from the Night Watch crew that was hating Jon Snow. The last thing would make sense to me since Melisandre knew about Mance and she might have been planning it with the Queen's men or helping men from the Night Watch to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nettles Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 If Stannis wanted to fake his death why would he involve Mance and disclose how everybody had been hoodwinked by Melisandre? Jon was stabbed for letting the wildlings pass, not because he broke his vows. I don't even think he did. Benjen visited Winterfell and it didn't get him stabbed. Jon as a LC has the privilege to act as he sees fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rrachel Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 If Stannis wanted to fake his death why would he involve Mance and disclose how everybody had been hoodwinked by Melisandre? Jon was stabbed for letting the wildlings pass, not because he broke his vows. I don't even think he did. Benjen visited Winterfell and it didn't get him stabbed. Jon as a LC has the privilege to act as he sees fit. I agree in most of what you say... It's not against their vows to visit the kingdom, they often do it, to search for more recluits... but it is against their vows to take part on the disputes of the kingdom, and what Jon Snow was trying to do when he asked his brothers to go with him, is to have a part on the war that was happening on Winterfell by answering to a letter as such by marching to the place of the battle. I do belive that is true that a big reason why he was stabbed is for letting the wildlings pass, but is also becouse of how much he has been helping Stannis.. since then, people around him started doubting about his decitions and all started adding up in the end until the attack after the letter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Low Sparrow Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 I am convinced that Ramsay wrote the pink letter and that everything he wrote in it, he believes to be true. There is some great analysis of the details in another thread on this forum: TWOW: Theon I (Spoilers) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yankee211 Posted November 26, 2014 Author Share Posted November 26, 2014 My question, how did Ramsey know the bard is Mance. Theon's chapter never described Mance of being captured, we know one of the wives were killed and we don't know the fate of the others. Also, I don't see Ramsey taking the time writing this letter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yankee211 Posted November 26, 2014 Author Share Posted November 26, 2014 Also, if Ramsey did wrote the letter, why is he demanding for people that Jon doesn't even have. Like Reek(I assume Jon don't know who that is), and Jayne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rrachel Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Knowing Ramsay, and what he wrote on the letter (in case is his which I tend to belive) it's logical for his nature to torture the unknown bard when the girls that where with him suddenly started attacking the guards inside Winterfell. In hopes of getting the truth out of his tongue, he might have used the girls that were still alive to torture as well, until he skined them. Between this 7 people (or the ones still alive), getting the true identity of Mance doesn't seem too hard. Ramsay is a very posesive person, and this quote by Reek with a description of him really helps me to understand why he might have send a letter so full of anger and impulsive. "His blood is bad. He needs to be leeched. The leeches suck away the bad blood, all the rage and pain. No man can think so full of anger. Ramsay, though … his tainted blood would poison even leeches, I fear." He doesn't think when he's angry, he just has the instinct of hurting when he doesn't get what he wants. And that's why he might have demanded all what was taken from him... as an angry child which toys where took away from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yankee211 Posted November 26, 2014 Author Share Posted November 26, 2014 That's a good point, but I question is his torture method. The letter says that he put the heads on the walls of Winterfell, but the Boltons flay there enemies. Lastly, Ramsey putting Mance in a cage for people to see does not sound like him, he is more crueler than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The weirwood knight Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 That's a good point, but I question is his torture method. The letter says that he put the heads on the walls of Winterfell, but the Boltons flay there enemies. Lastly, Ramsey putting Mance in a cage for people to see does not sound like him, he is more crueler than that. It does sound like Roose Bolton though. Even if Ramsay is really really really pi''ed and about to flay Mance, he wouldn't dare to resist when Roose commands him to stop and put him in a cage instead. A living Mance is more usefull and makes Stannis look like a deceiver. Ramsay knows if his father dies or disowns him, all northern lords would be delighted to hunt him down ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommystinker Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 There is a good thread that asha wrote the pink letter somewhere it's quite convincing.http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/89103-asha-wrote-the-bastard-letter-theon-i-twow-spoilers/?view=getnewpostWorth a read... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez Targaryen Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 I'm wondering if Melisandre may have written the letter... She knows that Jon is in danger at Castle Black, and the letter gives him a strong reason to leave.* Also, maybe she saw something in her fires that indicated that Stannis' army is in trouble (which it certainly is), and is trying to prompt Jon to move south in force to rescue him. On the other hand, she isn't aware of Reek as far as we know -- though with the magical stuff that surrounds her character, who knows. *Of course, he was just about to leave for Hardhome anyway so I'm not sure how valid this point is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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