At which point did Robert become leader of the Rebellion

[the conquering bastard 25]

Rhaegar was 17 by the time Viserys was born. Old enough that any children born to his parents at this point are to young to wait for them to mature if its a girl for him to wed. Another reason to remove said siblings? No one around to contest Cersei and her heirs to the throne. Once Cersei had a boy Tywin and the Lannisters would no longer need a Targ male as they could rule though said child. Case in point Alys Karstark and what she told JS aboiut her uncles intentions in wedding her.

[the conquering bastard 25]

I was no longer asking for evidence. I was explaining to you why I responded the way I did. You said

To which I explained why I responded the way I had.

I have corrected you in the past before, when you posted something that seemed to be incorrect (at times, because a reading had provided additional information, or an explanation, about an event in the series). That is true. I do that when I'm in a conversation with someone and I'm being told something that is incorrect. That's what happens on a forum.

But have I ever felt "the need to go out of my way"? No, I haven't. As to the theories you are mentioning. That was only this one. I've never described any of your theories that I encountered like that before.

The thing about "No I don't pull quotes but I did give enough background to support my claim" is, that you, in your original response, did not provide any background.. And again, that is why I responded the way I did.

I suggest we end this conversation now.

No you called my theory a crackpot with no evidence. Yet the world book definitely gives the impression of foul play in regards to those pregnancies. Nor is tywin the type of man to shrink from the murder of children born or unborn. Even before i started pulling quotes or passages you told me my info was incorrect but everything I said was later backed up with proof or text.

Yet you didn't like my proof, Tywin and his trip to Lys shouldnt count as evidence because its a spoiler chapter. But as it stands right now guess what? He went to lys for Aerys and could have crossed paths with a young Varys. You don't like a theory that's fine like I said you should watch what you call crackpot or baseless theory.

You didn't ask for proof or where were my facts you said and called my thought crackpot and this not the first time. You don't want a hostile response then don't come at a person in a disrespectful manner and calling something baseless or no textual evidence, when I later pulled and posted said evidence just isn't cool or cute, but I guess if something doesn't fit into your image of what is and should be then its crackpot and baseless right!?

You want to end the convo because you came at me out of pocket and incorrect and not for the first either. Its not that you asked for evidence (which you didn't you just called my theory crackpot only when presented with a laundry list of circumstance and subtext and actually proof you said" I just don't see it" so it not that the evidence isn't there and you incorrectly called me wrong and was presenting erroneous fact which is contrary to what actually went down like your the fact monitor and your all knowing on all things about wofai not to mention behaviors wording monitor. Be a woman and admit you jacked up and shouldn't go out of your way to name someone's theory crackpot and factless without even asking for evidence first.), that's fine its remarks like crackpot and then when you are given evidence to the contrary about my baseless and no textual facts, there not good enough because your the end all arbiter of evidence. Must be nice on that lofty pedastal looking down on us dumb factless morals and our unfounded theories what was i thinking I should be on hands and knees thanking you for calling me a crackpot. Thank you princess.👑

Post #19 I mention lannister in connection with being denied a royal marriage.

Which is confirmed in the world book and in cersei's POV in feast.

"Except lannister but he went out of his way to make sure Rhaegar was only child and free to wed Cersei" any statement after this when talking about Tywin and his actions should always come back to the statement about Cersei and Tywin wanting a royal match, also confirmed by Tyrion in Swords. So the last part of my statement is beyond a shadow of a doubt confirmed, I shouldn't have to pull a quote about Cersei and her possible marriage into the royal family.everyone should know this its a pretty basic fact and if one keeps this in mind when looking at my post going from there I give general statements that can be backed up by text.

Post#20

How did Tywin take certain that Rhaegar remained an only child? There is no textual hint...

Post#21

I make mention of Pycelle and his means\connection to being able to slip the queen moons tea

It is confirmed in clash through Tyrion that Pycelle has been a lannister toady for sometime now, he convinced Aerys to open the gates, Tyrion even wonders if that is the end of his treachery? I figured since most understood it to be that Pycelle was in the lannister pocket he had to have done something to demonstrate his loyalty to Tywin before sack of KL. I figured wrongly I guess that I was conversing with someone with an ounce of implied understanding didn't need for everything to be spelled out, that was my mistake in the future I will make sure I post in regards to you like I was talking to my 2 yr old twin cousins, small and simple words and not to skip anything.

Seeing as moons tea is not always effective of course the results differ. Not to mention Aerys also thought some of the children that were actually were born were being poisoned, but I guess assuming you actually read the world book and didn't just skim you would have noticed that little part where he employed a taste tester for the wet nurse's nipples for fear of poison. That he wasn't allowed to go to his brother wedding or HH tourney because Aerys was fearful about assignation or poisoning.

Also I guess I should have added as evidence about moon tea and its affects on the body look at Lysa Arryn. After her father forcible aborts her baby with Littlefinger she has multiple miscarriages and stillbirths. The one kid she has after the moon tea is Sweet Robin and he's the very picture of mental and physical health. While Viserys was physically okay we do know he was a little crazy even when he was a kid, kinda like SweetRobin and his unhinging mental state. Or did you miss the thought run though Sansa's mind that she hoped he wasn't going crazy because he claimed to still have heard marillion the singer,whom was supposed to be dead by this time.

In postm#19 I did mention Aerys and his paranoia. Sounds like I was giving textual evidence only with out pulling quotes.

Aerys was also suspicious about the death of his children after Rhaegar. He blames himself his cheating his wife and her possible cheating he even kills and entire family because he thinks they killer his son.

Yet I guess in your world where your the end all of evidence and what is and isn't evidence that wasn't good enough.

Post #24 word for word

Do basically you were presenting a crackpot as fact...

How is it crackpot theory if we the reader know beyond a shadow of doubt Tywin wanted his daughter as queen and given his character would be willing to do whatever it took to get his daughter as queen. This is the same man that ordered the death of two children to ensure his loyalty to the new regime. He killed innocent women and children to get to a couple of rebellious lords\bannermen. So why would it be a leap or stretch to think that Tywin had something to do with all those dead babies. Its not secret that TL proposes a match at the Lannisport tourney this little tidbit made it into the world book. So by implying that Tywin and Pycelle might have removed the queens pregnancies isn't that big of a leap given we know Tywin would have sold his soul if it would have made his daughter queen. The thing the reader lacks is an idea of just how far he went. Given more pieces are falling into place that Tywin might have a connection to Varys before he came to KL is made even more plausible by the mercy chpt. Oh wait that one doesn't count, even though its okay to pull info from other spoiler chpt when it suits your purposes god its nice to be in the company of hypocrisy.

I didn't think I needed to go into such explicit detail when talking to you. I though you were intelligent enough to realize I was still talking about TL and RT being free to wed outside of his family. This is only possible if he has not sisters. I thought you were intelligent enough also to understand that I was at first giving broad strokes that could be backed up by fact or at least logic. Which is why you were back peddeling from crackpot to,"I just don't see it"

Only to have given you way to much credit. You in your arrogance to call someone crackpot and baseless to actually make sure you have a case before you open your mouth. Sometimes its best to keep your mouth shut and appear intelligent than open your mouth and remove all doubt about your foolishness.

Did you ask yourself before you said my opinion was baseless or crackpot the following questions?

Did Tywin have the means to have Rhaella's pregnancies terminated? Yes,Pycelle was the grand Maester of the citadel and Lady Dustin points out part of their job is to heal, but as Cressan points out what most don't want to look at that the man that can heal can also kill. Then there is this Pycelle actually felt and like Tywin and he was loyal to Tywin as well. He help facilitate the sacking, how do we know that is the only misdeed on Pycelle hands on the behalf of house lannister and Tywin. All of this implied in post 21 when I mentioned that he was Tywins lackey.

Did Tywin have motive to want to remove said potential heirs? Yes, as stated about Cersei and wedding into the dragon family. Add in TL's ruthless personality and never end drive for all things glory bound for house Lannister and that seems like a strong indicator that he was capable of said action. Then given Pycelle and the citadels policy on magic and dragon he would have been removing brides and heirs for Tywin and dragonriders for the citadel.

Then your crowning moment in this debate after I give you evidence that you didn't ask for but were able to say before hand that there was no text or hints and that it was crackpot.

"I JUST DONT SEE IT"

So because you in your infinite and infallible knowledge of all things WoFaI coupled with a greater than thou attitude is the end all and ultimate opinion when it comes to all theories in regards to inverse material.

You told me first that we don't know if Tywin went to Lys. Then you state this is from a sample chapter and subject to change.

Yet as of 12-20-2014, TL did go to Lys on Aerys orders while he was Hand of the King. So until that changes Tywin could have crossed pathes with Varys. Also where's your proof, textual evidence that they didn't or that Varys was not in Lys, if I'm bound to give evidence then when one is giving opposing info one should be able to back said statement up with actually oh I dont know text. Wasn't that what you were telling me when I was passing of a crackpot theory as fact? Oh the hypocrisy.

This entire conversation could have been avoided if you had bothered to first ask for my facts or evidence instead of claiming my statement was baseless and without textual evidence. If you had asked instead of attacking me and my credibility yet again without an shred of decorum.

This will be the last time I state this watch who and what you call crackpot.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

snp

I asked you a question, and I received an answer that read like "yeah right, as if he didn't." That's what I based my answer on. I've already stated, had you posted actual formed argumentation, like you did in post 26, and later in 29 (and which you repeated later in other posts), instead of what you did post in post 21, I would have reacted completely different.

Then you keep repeating that I "go out of my way", and have called multiple of your theories crackpot... I've actually been searching in the histories, you should know, and I've been able to go back all the way to december 17th in 2013... I've never called anything crackpot that you said, except for in this thread (and I've explained why). And now, you have resorted to answers that feel like a personal attack... Which is why I suggested that this conversation is at an end.., I feel like no normal conversation is possible here on this topic.

As to the statement of "Tywin going to Lys is subject to change"... That wasn't an argument... I was simply making a statement.. Nothing more...