Mafia Game 73 (Mk. II)

[House Redfort]

I think it's great that one of the few players who I pegged innocent has been lynched. Karstark sounded very genuine in his posts and his behaviour made absolutely no sense if he was evil.

Vance still isn't making me too happy. He disappeared without a warning just when the decisive phase of the day started. A good way to avoid any further heat.

Inchfield - well, I still disagree with the case on him, although I do wonder why he is so insistant about Clegane's guilt. I wouldn't reduce his case to be tunnelvisioned about one word only. It's not about the usage of "weird", but that Clegane's post can be interpreted as non-committal. It's not enough to build a solid case on it, but it's a detail we should remember. I ask myself if an FM would start a case on some rather thin evidence like that and harp on about it for almost the rest of the day.

[House Redfort]

double post :o

[House Velaryon]

Sorry guys. Thought i'd be up before the deadline when I went to bed last night, but that didn't happen. Then I got lumbered with "stuff" that stopped me being able to read the thread, much less post!

Catching up now. :-)

[House Dondarrion]

Night needs to end. I have things to post.

[House Redfort]

Maybe the FM have a tie with their votes over who to kill... :unsure:

*offers his service as a tiebreaker*

[House Clegane]

Night needs to end. I have things to post.

You should maybe post them now, or are you so sure I won't kill you tonight? :rolleyes:

[Mexal]

sigh.

[House Targaryen]

The dawn breaks and a ray of light enters the window of the whitewashed hall where you have secluded yourselves for the trial. The light of the Dornish sun almost seems to have a character of its own, agressively blinding your eyes with its brilliant whites and searing yellows.

As you rise from your beds, covered with costly silken sheets, you notice one of you doesn't stir. As you come closer you notice a dark burgundy patch on the red silk. You remove the sheet and stare in horror at the corpse of Sir Redfort, with his throat slit from side to side. His mouth is wide open, as if he would scream a final warning or accusation, yet no air will ever leave his lungs again. You remember the corpse of Sir Plessiez of Pi, and decide both murders clearly belong to the same hand.

You decide to surrender your trusty daggers, which you use to cut your bread and meat, to the guards, in hope of avoiding more bloodshed. Deprived of his weapon, the assassin will have to resort to more crude methods of murder, and he may be caught in a second attempt. For now, you have another day before you, and are determined to continue with your trial in the hope of delivering a Faceless Man to Lothston this time.

It is day 2.

10 players remain: Clegane, Connington, Dayne, Inchfield, Kettleblack, Lannister, Mallister, Royce, Tollett, Vance.

6 votes are needed for a conviction or 5 to go to night.

10 players have not voted: Clegane, Connington, Dayne, Inchfield, Kettleblack, Lannister, Mallister, Royce, Tollett, Vance.

[Mexal]

oops.

[Mexal]

oops

[House Dondarrion]

Clegane

I’m trying to be objective here. It’s day 2 and it’s time to start reflecting that in my posts. Wish me luck.

I will say, after finishing a reread of Clegane, I still don’t particularly like him. He spent a lot of time harping on Vance about the Caps thing then subsequently backed off. That didn’t last all that long.

He then moved on to Redfort. I’m having a hard time understanding what his case is. I think it’s based on contradictions but I don’t really get it. I’ve read it over at least 3 times and it still makes no sense. It’s probably because Clegane does a very good job of taking each sentence and writing commentary to it. When I read through Redfort’s original post, it seemed like he was trying to reason out his theory on why Vance was evil. When I read through Clegane’s line by line paragraph dissection, you can’t tell that. You see what Clegane wants to show you and in the context he wants to show you but if you match it up to the original post, it doesn’t really work. To me, it feels like a stretch.

Now I’m not claiming that Redfort is innocent. I haven’t reread him so I have no opinion. What I am saying is that Clegane took a paragraph that made sense and broke it down line by line to try to make a case that to me, doesn’t fit with the original line of thought that Redfort was trying to convey.

Another thing that bothers me is the Karstark case. He followed Kettleblack up with a confirmation that Karstark’s post was non-committal. Then he moved on to his case on Redfort. It’s like he needed to let people know he saw the non-committal post but didn’t find it suspicious enough to follow up on it.

We then move on to the end of day and he comes back to reread Karstark. Fair enough. It’s the end of day and you need to reread myself and the other lynch choice. But his post against Karstark just doesn’t feel right. He’s fishing for another reason to vote Karstark. Yes, he could easily just regurgitate the non-committal nature of his posts, the fact he’s only voting for Vance but he instead, he doesn’t even acknowledge them and focuses on very small things that to me, do not indicate anything. It feels like someone trying too hard to be different. I personally don’t care if I repeat what others have said. If it’s true, it’s true. And I definitely make sure that I acknowledge the previous points.

I’ll show you an example.

OK, I've done Karstark.

There are lots of things that I don't like about Karstark.

First I don't like his misrepresentation of the cases in his first post, and above all the light he tries to paint Dayne with. Dayne has contributed greatly to start the ball rolling on day 1, and that's a necessity.

Second, Karstark says several time ther's still a lot of time in the day and he doesn't want to rush. I could take that point if Karstark had been active till the end of the day. But he vanished less than 2 hours after.

The light he tries to paint Dayne? Yes, Dayne has contributed but 80-90% of it was against me. He wanted to lynch me. Again, he focuses on lynch-happy but ignores the context it sits in. Karstark said he doesn’t like someone being so serious this early in the game, someone who controls the flow of the game. That’s all true about Dayne and honestly, it’s something people should be wary of. So I don’t think that’s a particularly awful point.

Second, the point that he doesn’t want to rush means what? I don’t get that.

Karstark is not a noob (he says in one of his posts he's played a few games and shows in his first post he has some knowledge of game mechanics), so the "I obviously don't have a clue about what I'm doing" doesn't really ring true.

I hate that kind of posts because it makes me feel bad lynching the person after and yet I can't shake off the impression I'm being manipulated.

Second part of the post. He talks about being manipulated. I guess it’s a fair point though again, it’s not something that really bothers me.

I guess my point is, while he brought new stuff to the table, it wasn’t anything definitive. It wasn’t even anything that really suggested that Karstark was a FM. It was things he made look like that to fit with the theory that Karstark was a FM. And instead of mentioning the real points against Karstark (lack of contribution toward anyone except Vance, wishy-washy and non-committal posts), he pulls up trivial things that mean nothing.

If you look at the grand scheme of things, he hasn’t done much. He made a post that I originally disliked. He backed off his stance on Vance. He moved on to Redfort based on dismantling a paragraph then never really pushed it or followed it up. He jumped on Karstark for trivial things while ignoring the major points (even after he pointed out one of the points but did it in a flippant manner – “If you want non-commital, it's hard to get better than that.”). And he’s suspicious of Tollett but we’re not really sure why.

I see guilt. I could be biased because I think he’s guilty, but none of this sits right with me.

And if you really want something to think about, lynching me over Karstark would have brought up more questions than he could answer. I am innocent and when I flipped innocent, I would suspect that people would start looking at him more closely whereas if he keeps me around, maybe saving me will help win me over to his side. I know that’s stretching it a bit but it’s the kind of thing that a FM would consider when making a decision like that.

I’m not going to vote yet. I will wait until I finish my other rereads.

[House Targaryen]

Mex you missed a post. :lol:

[House Dondarrion]

Tollett

I didn’t realize how easy this was.

Tollett has done two things this game. The first, he misread one of Dayne’s posts. There is nothing suspicious in that. We all do it from time to time.

The second involves attacking me. He jumped on me originally for changing my vote from Lannister to Clegane. Then we go into the fictional theory idea where he believes that Lannister was a safe vote and that I was so afraid of just “me tooing” that I had to move my vote to Clegane for a flimsy reason. Of course, if I was afraid of getting questions for jumping on Lannister, I wouldn’t have done it in the first place and least of all; I wouldn’t have done it the way that I did it which basically invited questions. His assertion just doesn’t make sense to me.

Note: He finds nothing wrong with what Clegane said and can’t understand my point of view. That’s fine. Keep note of it though if either of them flips evil.

Note 2: His attacks on me were not the first. He jumped on after Dayne started the ball rolling. Remember that.

Then he disappeared until end of day.

He comes back and asks for the case on Karstark. I linked it. He ignored it. He said still preferred me and that was that. There were 2 posts and 30 minutes that occurred between the time he preferred me and the time he asked for a summary on Karstark. Was it really so hard to read the link that I posted for him and comment on it in 30 minutes when he had time to post 2 other times? To me, it looks like he knows that Karstark is innocent, knows that I’m innocent, prefers me yet doesn’t want to be attached to a Karstark lynch when it comes up innocent. Then he has the audacity to be upset with the result.

Let me summarize.

1. Tollett has only posted against Dayne and me the entire game. He has absolutely no connections with anyone other than his hate of me as he took back his opinion of Dayne.

2. At the end of the day, Tollett asked for a summary on Karstark. I linked him the case. He ignored the link, posted several times between the time he decided I’m definitely the vote for him and the time he asked for the link. Not once did he offer any opinion on Karstark even though he had ample opportunity.

I would vote for him in a heartbeat and really, he kind of looks worse than Clegane. Not by much, but he does.

[House Dondarrion]

Lannister

I have to say, I’m really really confused by Lannister. There are times when it looks like Lannister is trying to find things out by asking questions but they never really go anywhere and the rest of her posts come across as incredibly wishy-washy.

Lannister is the most uncontroversial player in this game. Yes, she posted a case on Karstark. But that was it. After her post against Karstark, she came back to the thread to tell us she was lurking, playing other games and writing a response all evening to Karstark’s responses.

Then she comes back a few hours later and says she’s barely started writing the response and instead of finishing what she said she would do, she flips on him. Why? I have no idea. She never says. And that’s the last we hear about Karstark from her.

Seriously, that’s it. Look for yourself.

Now on to me. She’s not sure on me. There are things that I said that make her think I’m innocent. As it turns out, a lot of things. She posts a long ass post about it.

Then she completely pulls a 180 on me. She didn’t like a response I had to Tollett as she thinks I misrepresented his posts. I do not. Then I voted for Karstark, a person I had already expressed that I would vote for and the other person up for a lynch against me and that’s enough for her to change from Karstark, the person she made a case against, to me. Why? Because it was flippant. She wants me to present cases on Tollett and Clegane at the end of the day or present a better target. Really? There was like 30 minutes left in the day.

That’s it. There are no suspicions on anyone else in this game except myself and Karstark yet Karstark’s suspicions, which she even wrote the case for, wasn’t enough to follow up on. It wasn’t enough to even stick with as she just changed her mind with no prompting or explanation. Her thoughts of my innocence, which was quite a lot, were quickly thrown out the window because of a response to Tollett and a vote on Karstark. It looks like she was itching for a reason to switch her vote from Karstark to me as I’m clearly the more dangerous of the two. She almost even says this when she said:

To be honest, I know this sounds horrible, but I'm starting to flip-flop on Inchfield. To the point that I'm actually considering changing my vote to him. Yes, I am a total sheep this game. Sell me the Inchfield lynch over the Karstark (or Redfort) lynches, and I will baa obediently.

She has posted no other real suspicions of anyone though she has asked questions. Again, her only real connection is to myself and Karstark.

This is getting ridiculous. I might have to do figure this out another way if I keep finding loads of things wrong with people’s posts upon a reread.

[House Velaryon]

Firstly: Nothing in how the lynch came together particularly stands out. If Clegane felt Karstark looked more guilty than Inch, he had to hammer asap. If Kar had got back on, he could have voted for Inch himself ending it. So yeah, not voting asap would have been tantamount to voting Inch.

Connington just feels odd. Might be the repalcement thing, but I can't decide what I think about him. It's not particularly good, but I can't really figure out why exactly. I guess he's a prime re-read candidate for me later.

Dayne seems like one of our best players... But I still can't buy that he wasn't symp clue hunting, and that it just jumped out at him forcing him to act. I don't know, I have a niggling feeling that he is evil, but I don't know if I really want to lynch him... If he had played a worse game up til now I'd actually feel a lot better about him.

Red, I dissapeared because it was bed time. Sorry. :-p

While writing this, day broke and there's lots more to read. This small post took over an hour, so yeah, I'll respond to the rest as fast as I can. :-p

[House Dondarrion]

Kettleblack

I’m pretty neutral on Kettleblack after a reread.

A few things to note.

Early on, he harps on Connington for his Africa post. I don’t know why. It was clearly a joke post. I can’t see for the life of me what he could find suspicious about that. He then goes after replacement Connington and I have to say, his points aren’t all that bad.

Things that bother me.

1. He never really pushes Connington or tries to get others to care about him.

2. He was the first to call out Karstark and never once touched on it again until he voted me at the end of the day.

3. He went after Redfort a bit for being contradictory and not writing a post with thoughts after his reread. But he doesn’t really do anything with it. More just points it out without drawing any conclusions.

4. Then he basically agrees with Dayne about me in regards to the “pot stir” comment which isn’t really even true as I have explained.

Overall, I’m not horribly suspicious of him. He’s worth watching but the three people I posted above are definitely more suspicious to me.

Note: His only real connections are to me and Connington. He’s watching Dayne and seems a little suspicious of Redfort but we don’t know for sure.

[House Dondarrion]

Royce

That was quick.

He went after Dayne and then said he doesn’t suspect Dayne anymore. He doesn’t like my case on Clegane but doesn’t have a problem with me.

His only main suspicion was on Karstark and that’s all he was suspicious of. He didn’t comment on anyone else except Dayne, me and Karstark.

So he has no firm connections to anyone except me and Karstark. His Dayne connection doesn’t really matter since he suspected him then dropped it.

I really hope that people are seeing a pattern here. I have firm connections to pretty much everyone. Either they’ve said they like me or hate me. Anyway you look at it; people are being definitive for or against me. That’s more than you can say for anyone else in the game.

I’m really tired of rereading. I’ll do more later.

[House Velaryon]

Lannister

Jesus Christ, I need to re-read Lannister. If it lines up with what you said, I think I could get behind a lynch there.

[House Connington]

I only have a little window to post so this is going to be quick thoughts from the top of my head.

I'm very much liking Inchfield's barrage of daytime posts, and feel vindicated for not voting for him - feeling much better about him already.

I will be rereading Redfort, though he was right up there on my innocent list so his death is not a surprise.

This is a bit of a no-brainer, but Mallister needs a vote - he's shot up above Clegane on my suspect list. He needs to get his act together. It's not just his lack of posts (which in fact is often more of a sign of innocence), but that I have not liked any of them. This is from memory, as I don't have time to do quotes now (will later if they are needed, but he's easy enough to reread): his first post was very conventional fluff and his second was lazily querying some comment. I got the impression of somebody who was desperate to give nothing away whatsoever, and he didn't engage. The he disappeared for a while, leaving me with a bad taste. When he came back he said he would reread the thread, and over an hour passed before he posted again, but when he did post it was a rather unconvincing and not particularly well presented case on Dayne, one of the most active and (in my eyes) most innocent-sounding players in the game.

That's it really - a bit of bad vibes, a lot of non-engagement, and then his case on Dayne which propelled him uo my suspect list. (Because I believe Dayne is innocent, and I don't feel Mallister put a lot of thought into the case, to justify the time he apparently spent reading the thread).

This is just the first step in my campaign against low voters. I agree with the people who attack the tunnel-visioned. It's a safe place for FM and symps to hide, to avoid antagonising too many people and just focus on one. And it's bad for innocents to do this too, since they're a gift to the FM (unless they actually have identified an FM, which isn't that likely this early in the game). So... diversify...

[House Mooton]

Tollet's "tantrum" caught my eye (plus the comment on it the he didn't have aright to it) When you compare his end of day actions to his reaction to the lynch, it just seems rather forced and ungenuine.