AGOT Mafia Game n= May 2011.

[House Ashford]

Also, I just realized that all 3 of the things you mentioned came after you voted for me. So one of your justifications for voting for me occurred after you cast the vote? Either you're playing with a time machine, or you're making things up.

Do you find this scummy?

edit: this being the fact he's made stuff up after the fact

[House Reed]

Don't be so nervouse about him. I am just "throwing shit at some directions and looking where it sticks".

It's not that, it's the whole timing thing. Normally I would not be suspicious of people voting for Simba-- I mean, who would trust a lion? :P But, here are some things that stood out to me:

1) Votes piled up on Joseph Starlin (I feel like I'm typing with an accent here) pretty quickly. Like, 4 of them. With the small number of people in this game, 4 is a lot, and that lynch mob would quickly begin to arouse suspicion from people. When I'm FM, what I would do would be to look for another candidate to vote for.

2) Normally I would not make the alternative lynch-target Simba, because picking a fight with WJ (Simba) is really stupid, especially on day 1. He's like a mafia god whose undefeated streak is quite long, or was last time I played, anyway. But, the people who start rumbling about him are new here, so they might not know that.

3) Therefore, I feel like I should suspect Ernst Blofield and Sooty. Particularly, Sooty rubs me the wrong way here. His vote makes his admittedly short profile fit the profile of the platonic ideal I have in my mind for a smart player who just arrived from another site who is evil. <_<

Then, there's the whole question of the four (4!) people who voted for Starlin. Showgirl Barbie, why do you think that they're all innocent? Is there some meta-argument for only innocents piling onto someone this early in the game? (Especially since some of those people are new to the game or this site?) Of those people, I suspect them from least to most in the order in which they voted for Starlin, which of course means I should suspect Garfield least, although I'm not really satisfied with his defensive response to my vote at this point.

Still, here are my top 5 suspects of the moment:

1) Sooty

2) Igor

3) Puff

4) Garfield (a bit of a gut feeling, admittedly)

5) Ernst Blofield

I realize this list is pretty biased toward people who I haven't played with before, so to correct my internal bias I will add that I also have my eye on Edward and Wonder Woman. The former because, as someone pointed out, he seems to have a much lower profile than I would otherwise expect from him. The latter because...I dunno. He hasn't used the :leer: yet?

[House Tyrell]

Simba's vote on Sooty is poor though.

Sooty is clearly misrepresenting my posts. Given the attention headed my way, it looks like an attempt to join the bandwagon and increase the momentum against me.

Hey Simba what do you think of Puff and Barbie?

Currently not suspicious of Barbie. I don't like how he continually dismisses the potential impact of the Healer/Guard, and while I never got around to responding in detail, I found some of his arguments for why we should ignore the potential presence of those roles to be laughable. That said, I think most FM are usually careful to avoid the type of battle that he willingly engaged in earlier today.

I don't have any read on Puff. It looks like he's a new player who is lost at the moment, and as a result he hasn't contributed anything. Basically, what I'd expect from most new players, regardless of alignment.

Do you find this scummy?

edit: this being the fact he's made stuff up after the fact

Definitely. He's now right up there with Sooty on my suspect list.

[House Reed]

Addendum: I realize that the argument about Starlin's lynch mob is predicated on the assumtion that he's innocent. If he were evil, I'd guess voter #6 or #7 would be his partner. If he's innocent, I think the vote would come earlier. That being said, I have found that in my most recent games, I've had the best read on Starlin/TheMalcolm, and I think he's innocent here. Still no idea why his lynch mob is assumed to be innocent, though.

[House Reed]

Oh, and Sooty. Might as well put my money where my mouth is.

[House Baratheon]

His [sooty] vote makes his admittedly short profile fit the profile of the platonic ideal I have in my mind for a smart player who just arrived from another site who is evil.

From what I know she saying the truth. I didn't seen her all day at another site too. Also, I doubt that she is from that kind of players who would be faking this issue.

Krakatoa, this list of yours is awful, really.

My FM list would be (in order of FMness, oh God this sounds so stupid): Edward, The mummy, Humpty Dumpty, Wonder Woman.

So I vote Edward

[House Targaryen]

It is day 1.

14 players remain: Edward., Ernst Blofeld, Garfield, Humpty Dumpty, Igor, Joseph Starlin, Krakatoa, Miss Marple, Puff the Magic Dragon, Showgirl Barbie, Simba, Sooty, The mummy, Wonder Woman.

8 votes are needed for a conviction or 7 to go to night.

4 votes for Joseph Starlin (Garfield, Wonder Woman, Puff the Magic Dragon, Igor)

3 votes for Sooty (Humpty Dumpty, Simba, Krakatoa)

2 votes for Simba (Ernst Blofeld, Sooty)

1 vote for Edward. (Showgirl Barbie)

1 vote for Ernst Blofeld (Miss Marple)

1 vote for Showgirl Barbie (Edward.)

1 vote for Wonder Woman (Joseph Starlin)

1 players have not voted: The mummy.

[House Ashford]

RE: 143 (I can quote if you guys prefer but quote strips annoy me)

See, I don't think Sooty is misrepresenting you at all. I can totally see why she thinks that, even if I don't actually agree.

Hmm, i don't think inconsistency like that is a scumtell at all, slight town tell if anything in my experience. Scum are usually more careful (in general) about things like that, but I suppose it's mostly player dependant.

[House Stokeworth]

The latter because...I dunno. He hasn't used the :leer: yet?

A base fabrication! Post #50 is nothing but a :leer:!

Sooty is clearly misrepresenting my posts. Given the attention headed my way, it looks like an attempt to join the bandwagon and increase the momentum against me.

Did I miss something? What did Sooty say about your posts that was untrue? He said you fought Igor's town reads, which you did. That's the only mention I see of your posts. As wrong as you and I both think his conclusion was, I didn't see anything resembling misrepresenting your posts.

So why are you misrepresenting Sooty's posts?

ETA: Igor, the quote feature includes a link back to the post in question (the little arrow to the left of the name). It's really useful to have this to check context and such when you reply to someone. Please use it, especially if you respond to an older post, or provide equivalent links manually.

[House Tyrell]

Did I miss something? What did Sooty say about your posts that was untrue? He said you fought Igor's town reads, which you did. That's the only mention I see of your posts. As wrong as you and I both think his conclusion was, I didn't see anything resembling misrepresenting your posts.

So why are you misrepresenting Sooty's posts?

I didn't fight his innocent reads. I fought the proclamation of innocence without explanation. There's a huge difference.

[House Stokeworth]

Oh, whoops. I missed where Simba explained what he felt Sooty 'misrepresented' him (127).

I just checked back and it does seem like Sooty misrepresented Simba, but I'm confused because my recollection - even before Sooty posted - was that Simba had done what Sooty said he did. :dunno:

[House Reed]

From what I know she saying the truth. I didn't seen her all day at another site too. Also, I doubt that she is from that kind of players who would be faking this issue.

Unfortunately, I don't have access to this other site to figure out Sooty's deal. I'm just saying that, based on how she(?) arrived here, her behavior is what I would expect from someone who was evil.

Krakatoa, this list of yours is awful, really.

Can you tell me why?

My FM list would be (in order of FMness, oh God this sounds so stupid): Edward, The mummy, Humpty Dumpty, Wonder Woman.

So I vote Edward

Because it seems to me you have the opposite problem as I do. I see evil in people who haven't played according to Westeros.org Mafia norms before. You see evil in people who have. :dunno:

[House Ashford]

I've no idea how to read Krakota's 142. I mean, there's pretty much nothing I agree with in it, like at all. But stuff like 4 votes is a lot (when it's 8 to lynch) seems so weird to me, as I'd totally be happy with 2 or 3 more people piling on that wagon and seeing what happens as a result. But scum don't lie about stuff like that anyway, it's just completely alien to me.

I disagree with the list, not sure about him(?) being overly worried about it consisting of newer/unfamiliar players, shows he's thinking about his list, but it's the type of thing I'd be more likely to think about as scum (but I'm more impulsive than most so).

Gut town read on it I guess, even if it's ...not good?

Oh and I know of WJ. I do my homework, sometimes with the help of others admittedly.

Wait, are you saying Sotty's content is bad, or her timing is bad? I initially thought it was the first, but did you mean the second?

[House Ashford]

Can scum daytalk here?

[House Stokeworth]

Simba, how do you feel on Starlin?

I'll explain why I'm keeping my vote on him in a bit more detail; I'd thought we still had to avoid this kind of meta-discussion even with revealed alts, but I guess I was wrong. To be clear, this was my reasoning when I first voted for him.

I remember Malc as someone with a surprising insight, who is often able to pick up the tiniest clue early on and turn it into a case with both legitimacy and reasonable accuracy. Out of anyone here, he's the one who I'd expect to be finding points that turned us from the RP-and-role-distribution-and-odd-even-rule phase into the legitimate voting phase. I usually end up disagreeing with his clues, but that's not the point.

So seeing him toss out the fluffiest of fluff during that phase raised major alarm bells.

Kat, why am I not on your list for voting Starlin?

ETA:

my recollection - even before Sooty posted - was that Simba had done what Sooty said he did. :dunno:

To be perfectly clear, since there's more than one way to read what Sooty said, my recollection had been that Simba had decried the practice in general of declaring PI based on early reads, not that he had found something amiss with the specific ones Igor chose.

[House Reed]

I disagree with the list, not sure about him(?) being overly worried about it consisting of newer/unfamiliar players, shows he's thinking about his list, but it's the type of thing I'd be more likely to think about as scum (but I'm more impulsive than most so).

Gut town read on it I guess, even if it's ...not good?

Oh and I know of WJ. I do my homework, sometimes with the help of others admittedly.

Wait, are you saying Sotty's content is bad, or her timing is bad? I initially thought it was the first, but did you mean the second?

I'm a she. Here's my alt.

It's not Sooty's timing in arriving to this game that I suspect, but the timing of her vote on Simba. He is a convenient person to vote for because he posts a lot and is opinionated. The problem is, I can also see why someone new here would suspect Simba just because of his general demeanor. My read on him, right now, is not guilty-- but it's early. It's just that the timing of Sooty arriving and immediately placing a serious-suspicion (rather than joke vote) post on Simba worries me. Between Sooty and Ernst, I feel like that move to vote Simba is a distraction from the Starlin vote. Not because I think Starlin is evil, but because placing a 5th vote on Starlin would look bad, but when the game is starting to get serious, you have to find someone to put a vote on.

[House Baratheon]

I really hate how it is:

Joseph Starlin vs Sooty vs Simba

Because I have a gut on Malc, and I want to play with Sotty and WJ (and didn't found anything FM-alike from them)!

I know I'm going to regret this but I do and go to sleep. Farewell town, I hope you'll get consensus without poor ol' me. Besides, if not, then I guess no lynch would occur. And thats exactly what I wanted at the first place. So it's fine with me.

[House Ashford]

Roger on the being a female.

I think your point is actually not unreasonable, but I don't think Sotty would be overly worried about putting him on 5 votes as scum if she felt she could give sufficent reasoning, which she'd be quite capable of doing either way. I agree that he's any sort of any easy target, I think someone who posts a lot and gives their opinions is far from a convenient place to park your vote. Sotty's really good scum anyway, so that's not a factor of course.

Sorry, I didn't know metagaming was frowned upon(?) when everyone was publically outed.

[Magic Mirror]

I started writing a huge catch-up post, but I've barely got anywhere and at least a whole page has gone by. So I'll just post half of it for now. Here are just a bunch of random scattershot observations.

1) The newbies

Garfield reads as newbie innocent to me. His post accusing Kat doesn't feel like him playing the newbie card; it feels like someone who's genuinely paranoid of someone attacking him because he feels insecure.

Showgirl Barbie's overuse of statistics could be information instead of analysis. But his brashness and willingness to call attention to himself are points in his favour. Leaning toward calling him innocent.

If there's scum among the three new players, my money's on Dragon, IMO. His constant "how do we know who's scum" kind of feels like (although less of a tell for a newbie. But then his hop onto Starlin when a bandwagon started to form came across as calculating. He reminds me of Jade/Baratheon in that sense. I've kind of skimmed over some of his posts, though.

I'm pretty null on Ernst Blofeld at the moment. The catch Simba pointed out flew over my head, TBH. You know what, this post has taken me long enough to write, so I'll reread him later.

=====================================

2) My minions

@Wonder Woman: This is unusually verbose for Faraday. :P

I've played a lot with both Faraday and Sotty. Both feel in keeping with their town selves--although if one of the two of them is scum, I'd say Sooty. (I should give fair warning that both are very good as scum. :P) And they both explained why I singled out Sooty; I'm the one who lured her over here.

Igor sounds extremely innocent, with the one caveat that I don't agree with his Stalin vote. Also, he's the one who accused me of being susceptible to buddying AND then proceeded to call me town. Igor, what changed between your vote for me and now? I hadn't even posted before you declared me town out of the blue.

@Wonder Woman and Simba:

Granted, I always find it hilarious to see people troll Faraday by asking him for reasons behind his reads. But did I just go crazy by spending too much time on mafiascum? Don't people here at least SOMETIMES make comments like "I feel on gut that Greyjoy is obviously innocent"? I've seen WJ give gut reads all the time.

Hey, Simba, do you think Igor is scum?

==================================

3) Actual suspects

I was in the middle of writing a big rant about how Kat's posts have been useless fluff, and that her lame "opportunism" accusation was weak (why were the Simba votes in particular opportunistic, rather than the Stalin ones?). But her big post remedied most of my problems with her. I disagree with the majority of Kat's reads, and find her train of logic condemning the Simba voters ridiculously poor and convoluted.

(No offence, but I'm starting to see why you loses to Simba all the time. :devil: Seriously, do you find Sooty's post suspicious, or are you only voting Sooty for voting WJ when she doesn't know his meta? Um...no. Her voting WJ is less of an innocent tell than it would be from a Westerosi player. That doesn't make it a scumtell. Or are you saying the second vote on anyone is ALWAYS scummy?)

But Kat's thought process (for example, admitting to suspecting players she's unfamiliar with) feels more like that of an innocent. I should have probably moved her into another section, but meh, this segues nicely into the next part.

I've only skimmed through the thread, but to be honest, I'm actually considering a vote for Simba (which is completely insane for WJ on D1, regardless of alignment). Because his token attempts at pressuring people have felt halfhearted and completely mechanical, as though he was just asking questions for the sake of looking busy. Like yeah, I know he prefers cases to gut reads. But he really doesn't seem like he genuinely finds Igor's or Sooty's succinct town reads suspicious. Even his post about how Piper would go crazy rang false.

I also agree with Igor that his OMGUS vote on Sooty felt really weird, too. The distinction between "fighting innocent reads" and "fighting the proclamation of his innocent reads" is horribly nitpicky. Had you said something like "Sooty is voting me for a surface scumtell," maybe I'd see your POV. But you accusing her of "misrepresenting" you because of the precise definition of your words sounds like you're evil and trying to play the semantics game.

The other player I'm leaning toward voting:

seriously?

one player signals out another and you don't find that suspicious?

edit: player/not play

Interesting. So you found my signalling suspicious? Did you think it was a symp clue? Something else?

Then why didn't you vote for me, or say anything at the time?

I'm not really a tells kind of player, but I've found it a HUGE scumtell when someone compliments someone on an argument or on pointing out something suspicious or accurate, but doesn't give his own opinion of the player in question.

I agree Ernst Blofeld for his opportunistic vote of Simba

...um...you realize Ernst Blofeld was the FIRST vote on Simba?

This is a terrible, terrible, TERRIBLE vote. It looks like you just latched onto the word "opportunistic". Tell me, why did you find Blofeld's vote more opportunistic than Simba's?

Lany always looks somewhat suspicious, but I find that since RP ended, she's been very safe and floating. For example, she parroted the vote on Showgirl Barbie for going to night. I don't think she's given any hint of her suspicions other than the two posts I quoted.

For the record, I'm not even caught up, but I already want to announce that my current tinfoil hat theory is that Miss Marple is symping Simba. Really, I'm only announcing this on the off-chance that I'm right, so after we lose horribly, I can brag in Spoiler Heaven about how I nailed them on D1.

Oh, yeah, Marple? How many scum do you think we have? I know you've played in fourteen-player games before.

============================

Who's left? Stalin (was leaning innocent on him, but I only skimmed through the thread), Wonder Woman (comes across as though he has good intentions), Mexal (total null), and more on Blomfeld.

Remove vote

Going to reread the thread, but I'm waffling between Simba and Marple for my vote. Aargh. One of you do something that looks innocent, please.

[House Reed]

Kat, why am I not on your list for voting Starlin?

Would you like to be on The List? (:leer:)

It's because of the timing of your vote for Starlin. But as I noted, you're one of my suspicious familiar-people list, so you're not completely off my radar. I can bump you up to #6 if it makes you feel better.

Btw, my list is just....uh....out-loud musings in the thread. No one should take it as written in stone. It'll probably change throughout each day based on whatever twisted logic I decide is most convincing to myself at that moment. So that list was based on my "here's how I think killers would act with regard to this bizarre 4-person lynch mob on Starlin early on Day 1" theory.

The other problem, WW, is that I think the last time I played with you was during that awful synnp game. Maybe I just find you innately suspicious.