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Will Roslin Frey die in childbirth?

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#1 Apple Martini

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Posted 22 October 2011 - 09:05 PM

I'm rereading Storm of Swords and I noticed that Catelyn thinks Roslin's frame is too small to be that successful in child-bearing. I know a lot of people, including myself, put a lot of stock in Catelyn's observations about this sort of thing (see also, Westerling, Jeyne).

One of the biggest arguments you can make against wiping out House Frey is that not all Freys were in on the Red Wedding, including Roslin and her unborn child. But does anyone suspect that Martin might solve that problem on his own by having Roslin and the child die during the delivery? We already know the girl's frame isn't robust. I can see a lot of the other families using the deaths as "evidence" that the Freys are cursed. It clears out a pair of "good Freys" without them being killed by UnCat or whatever, and, depending on Edmure's survival and remarriage, it puts Riverrun in play to be inherited by one of the Stark kids.

#2 Alexia

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Posted 22 October 2011 - 09:09 PM

I think this is a pretty good theory. I've been arguing for a while that I think Sansa will inherit Riverrun and the title of Lady Tully, and this fits right into that. Edmure is a dead man walking anyway -- especially now that Jaime's gone on to his final rest. I was thinking that Cersei or another Lannister might kill the babe too since Roslin's being sent to Casterly Rock but this works much better.

#3 Apple Martini

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Posted 22 October 2011 - 09:12 PM

I also realized that if Roslin and the baby die (or even after the baby's born, really), Edmure ceases to be of use to House Frey and could very well be assassinated, regardless of what Jaime promised him.

Edited by Apple Martini, 22 October 2011 - 09:13 PM.


#4 Bat Lord

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Posted 22 October 2011 - 09:21 PM

One of the biggest arguments you can make against wiping out House Frey is that not all Freys were in on the Red Wedding, including Roslin and her unborn child.


I'm pretty sure Roslin knew what was going to happen. That's why she was in a sulk throughout the wedding ceremony.

Edited by Bat Lord, 22 October 2011 - 09:21 PM.


#5 Apple Martini

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Posted 22 October 2011 - 09:25 PM

I'm pretty sure Roslin knew what was going to happen. That's why she was in a sulk throughout the wedding ceremony.


Yeah, I'm actually reading the scene now and you're right, she seems like she knew it was coming. All the same though, she's usually lumped into the "Good Frey" pile and I think she genuinely loves or is at least fond of Edmure.

#6 voodooqueen126

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Posted 22 October 2011 - 10:39 PM

Well I think you have a point here, with her small frame and a family history of poor health.
If Roslin ceased to be a hostage do you think Edmure might escape?

#7 Apple Martini

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Posted 22 October 2011 - 10:57 PM

Well I think you have a point here, with her small frame and a family history of poor health.
If Roslin ceased to be a hostage do you think Edmure might escape?


I actually think they'd go ahead and kill him.

#8 Galen M

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Posted 22 October 2011 - 11:03 PM

I'm pretty sure Roslin knew what was going to happen. That's why she was in a sulk throughout the wedding ceremony.


She knew and helped, for sure.

However, many people have speculated that the mothers who die in childbirth give birth to significant children: Tyrion, Jon, Dany. If that's the case and Roslin dies, her child may be very significant.

#9 voodooqueen126

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Posted 22 October 2011 - 11:50 PM

I actually think they'd go ahead and kill him.

yeah but aren't they going to kill him if Roslin gives birth to a son? Of course you're right it would be logical to kill Edmure, but I am hopeful that the death of Roslin would be a good impetus for Edmure escaping.
Crack Pot Theory:
Stannis will ask Theon, Asha and Aeron to rescue Edmure from Casterly Rock.

Edited by voodooqueen126, 22 October 2011 - 11:51 PM.


#10 Jenny of Oldstones

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Posted 22 October 2011 - 11:59 PM

My own personal theory is that Lady Stoneheart, on her neverending quest to murder all Freys, will eventually hunt Roslin down and have her murdered for her part in the Red Wedding, and kill the child too because she is a cold unfeeling zombie and that's what they do. Edmure, who seems to actually love Roslin despite all reason not to, will hate her forever, and will go on to sire different children by another mother and teach those children to hate the Starks as the bring nothing but death and strife. Thus Houses Tully and Stark, which were once bound by the closest of ties, will in the next generation become the most bitter of enemies.

Since Roslin dying in childbed mucks up my above theory I don't want it to happen. It just seems a little too convenient and cowardly for this serious. We haven't shied away from showing tough moral decisions and their ramifications on characters before, and I would hate to start now by taking an easy out with regards to a good Frey.

#11 Apple Martini

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Posted 23 October 2011 - 01:45 AM

There are other good Freys though, like Olyvar and Perwyn and some of the other Rosby-Freys.

#12 Johnny The Longshanks

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Posted 23 October 2011 - 01:46 AM

If she "dies in childbirth" the Lannisters will be suspected by the Freys and that could end their alliance, not that Walder seems overly emotional about that sort of thing but he sure hates disrespect.

#13 Raksha the Demon

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Posted 23 October 2011 - 02:16 AM

But even if Roslin and the child both died, and Edmure either was killed or never married again, wouldn't Bran or Rickon be heir to Riverrun rather than Sansa?

Personally, I would love to see Sansa inherit the Tully holdings and title; especially since she resembles the Tullys....

#14 Orlov

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Posted 23 October 2011 - 06:41 AM

One thing that is certain is that Edmure is fucking dead.

#15 Alexia

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Posted 23 October 2011 - 07:11 AM

But even if Roslin and the child both died, and Edmure either was killed or never married again, wouldn't Bran or Rickon be heir to Riverrun rather than Sansa?

Personally, I would love to see Sansa inherit the Tully holdings and title; especially since she resembles the Tullys....

Bran's probably never coming south of the Wall again; he's going to be a tree. Holdings are rarely combined and it would be unlikely that Rickon would hold Riverrun and Winterfell. Sansa would be the most likely to inherit it.

#16 Apple Martini

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Posted 23 October 2011 - 09:53 PM

Bran's probably never coming south of the Wall again; he's going to be a tree. Holdings are rarely combined and it would be unlikely that Rickon would hold Riverrun and Winterfell. Sansa would be the most likely to inherit it.


Sansa makes sense to hold it, symbolically, given the Littlefinger connection.

#17 Jem

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Posted 23 October 2011 - 11:02 PM

Catelyn goes and asks the Frey's maester about this, though. He assures Catelyn that Roslin's mother was just as petite as Roslin is herself and she was able to successfully bear five living children. I think that this conversation shows that Roslin will survive childbirth and bear a healthy child, thereby signing her husband's death warrent.

#18 Melpomene

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Posted 23 October 2011 - 11:05 PM

I had guessed that perhaps the baby would die, and possibly Roslin. It's an interesting and likely theory.


That being said...having Roslin and/or the baby die might seem too easy....I wonder if instead, Roslin has the baby (A boy or girl) and she is secretly taken away by a quiet ally. Brynden Tully is still out and about, who knows what he is cooking up?


The baby *is* the cousin of Sansa, Bran, Robb, Arya and Rickon after all, which might mean something in the long run.

Edited by {Dances With Direwolves}, 23 October 2011 - 11:14 PM.


#19 Apple Martini

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 09:56 AM

Catelyn goes and asks the Frey's maester about this, though. He assures Catelyn that Roslin's mother was just as petite as Roslin is herself and she was able to successfully bear five living children. I think that this conversation shows that Roslin will survive childbirth and bear a healthy child, thereby signing her husband's death warrent.


Or it could be the conversation that lets readers think she'll bear living children without trouble, before Martin pulls the rug out.

Remember that Catelyn asked this before the RW but after it had been planned. Who knows if the maester had any ulterior motives. I wouldn't put any stock into that conversation, honestly.

#20 Shaggydog Stark

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 10:01 AM

One thing that is certain is that Edmure is fucking dead.


I agree. Either way Edmure is dead, unless Roslin has a girl, in which case they might keep him alive until Roslin gets pregnant again.



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