20 replies to this topic

[Mednieks]

Tyrion`s blackwater chapter was the worst asofai chapter I`ve read yet.

Tyrion is killing people left and right. Knight are running away from one man that is half of their size and can barely walk.
And how many men just ran towards him just to get axe in their head? It did not make any sense. It felt like Robert Baratheon or Jaime Lannister was fighting that battle not Tyrion.

Is Tyrion really top-tier fighter that works out and trains skill with axe every day?

[The Mountain That Flies]

Part of the chapter has to be taken with a grain of salt. Tyrion himself says he gets "drunk" off the battle, so his narration on how exactly the fight is going isn't totally reliable.

That being said, Tyrion was able to hold his own fighting the mountain clans and at the Green Fork. While it may be difficult to believe a guy literally half the size of the other combatants can fight as well, if not better, he's reasonably strong for his size, and can be difficult to hit. Also, if I remember correctly, he's on his horse for a good chunk of his fighting during the Blackwater, so that gives him a good advantage fighting men on foot.

[Bad Hound!]

Yes, I would agree with that - I think the problem comes from Peter Dinklage in the series: he is not scary enough. Book-Tyrion is small yes, but strong, gnarled and feisty. I see him more like the dwarves in the Lord of The Rings movies: certainly capable of fighting against men if they have to.

[LastOfTheGiants]

I think that most of all the chapter portrays the chaos of war where sword skill is not as important and even someone small and untrained as tyrion can manage get a couple of kills

[Ser Troye of the Sands]

I like what the Mountain that Flies has to say about Tyrion being battle drunk, but I think it is simpler than that. Most of the people Tyrion is fighting have just crossed a wretched river that had enemy combatants, wild fire, and many other hazards/obstacles to overcome. A lot of the fighters he came across may have tired, weary, and perhaps slightly injured. It is not like they were able to just boat across the river unmolested.

[Nathan the Calm]

I think everything that has been said is true. Mounted, killing people who just crossed a river while being under fire of arrows, rocks and the wildfire does not seem to be a sign that one is a great fighter. Later on he fights on the crashed galleys on which I thought by myself that the enemies fled from the two knights of the Kingsguard than from him.

[Horza]

From the way Tyrion's abilities are introduced to us in AGOT - cramps, waddling, etc., he shouldn't be capable of his battle heroics at Green Fork or Blackwater. Its one thing the TV series definitely handles better.

[Nathan the Calm]

But you have to remember that it is written from Tyrions perspecitve. so maybe he sees the things like in the books written but other persons maybe see the real way Tyrion fights. And you have to keep in your mind that he was in both battles mounted which is a very big benefit not only against footmen but also for him as a dwarf.

[Lord Flashheart]

Tyrion is by no means a top fighter. Or even a fighter of any tier. He had a company with him including even kingsguard if I remember correctly. Also in the midst of a battle I can see a very short man being unnoticed amongst all the chaos.

[Stan the Man]

When I read the chapter, I read the battle of the Blackwater as just being a huge confusing mess, and in those circumstances, Tyrion's luck probably played a bigger part than any skill.

[MarshalMedan]

Stan the Man, on 11 November 2012 - 04:27 PM, said:

When I read the chapter, I read the battle of the Blackwater as just being a huge confusing mess, and in those circumstances, Tyrion's luck probably played a bigger part than any skill.

agreed

[Distorted Humor]

Most fhe men he fighting are hurt, half drowned, and not on a horse, while he on a horse till he out on the boats.    Also many of the men are just farmboys and so on that where pressed into combat, and Tyrion most likely had some training from the time he could walk.

[GreyWarden]

He probably read a book about combat.

Not gonna lie though, his ferocity made his dwarven brethren proud.

[~Shiera Seastar~]

Tyrion is GRRM's little pet. Death can't touch him.

[Maester Tormund]

First, most of the men fighting are men at arms and militia. They may have some training but Tyrion, despite his physical limitations, is a Lannister of Casterly Rock. He has received training in arms.

Second, no matter how much better armed or trained when an enemy breaks, they break. I'm not sure about you but when a crazed horde charges out of the gate screaming "Half-Man!" I'm going to get scared.

[Woftis]

I think one of his biggest strengths is his size. Soldiers field of vision would be limited due to their helms and I know I for one wouldn't be looking down for a dwarf, particularly if I'm already engaged in a sword fight.

[The Mountain That Posts]

I'd just like to add that GRRM has stated that, since the third book came out or so, he wishes he could rewrite the first two books. Some of his changes he would like to do to the first two books would include fixing spelling mistakes(Quarth, for instance), make it so Renly's eyecolor doesn't change, make sure horses don't flip genders by accident, etc. but some of the bigger things he would've liked to have done include introducing more minor characters in the first book, slightly aging up the Stark and Cersei's children, and... changing Tyrion's physical ability.

GRRM absolutely hates the scene where Tyrion is introduced in that Jon chapter where Tyrion does that crazy jump, and GRRM also hates Tyrion's role in all the battles. Actually, pretty sure GRRM said his single favorite change in the HBO series so far has been the show having TYrion knocked out before the battle in the ninth episode of the first season. Obviously this change was done for both comic relief and because the show doesn't have the budget for battles, but GRRM loves it and finds it more realistic and "more Tyrion" than what he actually wrote.

Pretty interesting stuff. I wonder if GRRM ever will rewrite the first two books(or perhaps even "revisit" the whole series) once he's done, or if it's just "I would if I could" talk.

Edited by The Mountain That Posts, 24 February 2013 - 02:41 AM.

[Nick Baratheon]

The Mountain That Posts, on 24 February 2013 - 02:41 AM, said:

I'd just like to add that GRRM has stated that, since the third book came out or so, he wishes he could rewrite the first two books. Some of his changes he would like to do to the first two books would include fixing spelling mistakes(Quarth, for instance), make it so Renly's eyecolor doesn't change, make sure horses don't flip genders by accident, etc. but some of the bigger things he would've liked to have done include introducing more minor characters in the first book, slightly aging up the Stark and Cersei's children, and... changing Tyrion's physical ability.

GRRM absolutely hates the scene where Tyrion is introduced in that Jon chapter where Tyrion does that crazy jump, and GRRM also hates Tyrion's role in all the battles. Actually, pretty sure GRRM said his single favorite change in the HBO series so far has been the show having TYrion knocked out before the battle in the ninth episode of the first season. Obviously this change was done for both comic relief and because the show doesn't have the budget for battles, but GRRM loves it and finds it more realistic and "more Tyrion" than what he actually wrote.

Pretty interesting stuff. I wonder if GRRM ever will rewrite the first two books(or perhaps even "revisit" the whole series) once he's done, or if it's just "I would if I could" talk.

Let´s just stay humble and pray he finishes the series at all

[rustypaladin]

He is also extremely confident in that his wildfire plan worked. Yes, the men he was fighting were injured, burned, in unfamiliar terrain and probably not used to fighting a 'halfman'. He most likely takes people by suprise, he can run around without being seen  and doesn't make for an easy target.
GRRM is all about underdogs, hence his love for 'bastards, cripples and broken things'.
He is making parody on the hero stereotype. Don Quixote was much more entertaining than Ivanhoe after all.

Edited by rustypaladin, 13 March 2013 - 07:57 PM.

[podrick_payne45]

Tyrion can do anything he sets his mind to, except grow his nose back.