[ADwD Spoilers] Brienne/Jamie theory

[wwwidonja]

Now, many of us were thinking that Brienne is a gonner after AFFC. Dance with Dragons reveals it is not so. GRRM already confirmed that the word that Brienne yelled out was

"SWORD", to save Podrick's life.

That would mean her turning the back to Jaime and joining BWB, yes? But what if there is more to the story?

I think that Brienne might have been hanged regardless, but she was then brought back to life with a little help from Thoros of Myr. She was then instructed (Again, with red magic of some sort) to go fetch Jaime. In the chapter she was even said to look '10 years older than when he last saw her'. She would lead Jaime into an ambush where he would be attacked by Stoneheart's BWB (and on it goes...)

What do you think? This would add logic for there to still be 'a Hound' around, even though we know he's dead, and Brienne's lie about Sansa.

[Nick_Scryer]

Nah...Brienne is still alive. She'll bring him back to the cave and he'll demand a trial by combat. Brienne will be his champion and Lem(The Hound III) will be Lady Stonehearts.

Brienne will win, LS will not be pleased and try to have him killed anyway. The brotherhood will turn on Lady Stoneheart and subdue but not kill her, and Jaime will take control of the brotherhood. Brienne will take the Hound's helm and everyone will make their way to the Eyrie when Sansa Stark is revealed to be their.

Jaime and Brienne will get to the Eyrie and defend Sansa from Robert Strong but Brienne will fall in battle. Lady Stoneheart will see that they were not lying and give her life for Brienne's. The Lords of the Vale will declare for Sansa and go with the Brotherhood to KL where RS has taken Sansa. They'll stop by the Quiet Isle on the way and pick up a certain gravedigger.

When they get to the capital, Cersei will be on her final straw and starts burning the city down with wildfire. Jaime and Sandor will run into the burning keep, Sandor will save Sansa by jumping out the window but will die when he takes the brunt of the fall to save her life. Jaime will strangle Cersei but will die with her.

Brienne will declare her loyalty to Sansa. The End.

It is known.

[Lost Umber]

She nearly died after the fight with Rorge and Biter and then was nearly hanged to death. I think that explains her looking 10 years older.

When she yelled out "the word".. she agreed to go get Jaime. It's all pretty obvious up to point she rides off with Jaime in ADWD.

I don't understand what theory you are proposing. Are you saying that she is now UnBrienne and mind-controlled?

[The Dornishman's Wife]

Generally, my feeling is that GRRM isn't one to throw magic and resurrections around willy-nilly. Does an undead Brienne add so terribly much to the story (at least comparable with Beric Dondarrion, who also served to introduce the concept to us, or to the avenging angel that is Lady Stoneheart)?

I don't see that, and Brienne's motivations seem to make sense even if she's perfectly alive. In fact, you could say that if she were an undead thrall, that would subtract significantly from the Jaime-Brienne feeling of betrayal angle. That makes me think it's probably just plain old Brienne doing the capturing, not UnBrienne.

By the way and generally, the average character we meet in the books has a chance of significantly less than 1 in 1000 of getting kiss-of-lifed. Reading fan theories, you'd get the impression that it had to be so much higher.

[Lost Umber]

Generally, my feeling is that GRRM isn't one to throw magic and resurrections around willy-nilly. Does an undead Brienne add so terribly much to the story (at least comparable with Beric Dondarrion, who also served to introduce the concept to us, or to the avenging angel that is Lady Stoneheart)?

I don't see that, and Brienne's motivations seem to make sense even if she's perfectly alive. In fact, you could say that if she were an undead thrall, that would subtract significantly from the Jaime-Brienne feeling of betrayal angle. That makes me think it's probably just plain old Brienne doing the capturing, not UnBrienne.

By the way and generally, the average character we meet in the books has a chance of significantly less than 1 in 1000 of getting kiss-of-lifed. Reading fan theories, you'd get the impression that it had to be so much higher.

:agree:

[~Shiera Seastar~]

First and foremost, welcome to the forum, OP! :cheers:

I don't believe Brienne is UnDead and there's no point of asking her to choose between noose or sword but get hanged regardless of what word she screamed, then oops! She isn't really supposed to die (it's just a taste of LS wrath if you crossed her) but conveniently, Thoros the Merlin of Westeros can quickly bring her back to life. That's not what Thoros' power is all about, imo, and I don't think it's an easy thing to do also (coz if it is, why not bring back their other brothers who died instead of just Beric?). If Brienne is meant to die, she will die; if not, her part in the story is not yet finished. She is allowed to lived coz she is given a task to bring Jaimie to LS. And if she looked different from the last time she and Jaimie parted, blame it to the rough living condition brought on by the war.

[IRON BANK]

I do like your effort on the theory thanks! however I feel unBrienne would be repetitive to the story.

[CerseisPimp]

You are all on crack.

[Tini]

OP, what would be Brienne's motivation for coming back from the dead?

As I understand it, the undead are in single-minded pursuit of a goal. When that goal is reached, or they let go of that goal, they pass on. Beric Dondarrion strove for justice, Catelyn strives for vengeance. What is Brienne's motivation?

I don't think it is her search for Sansa. If it were, why did she look up Jaime with a story about Sansa and the Hound? Why not go in search of Stoneheart immediately? It can't be about keeping her oaths because her oaths are pulling her in several directions at once. It can't be Podrick Payne's safety because Podrick's safety was always one concern among many.

[Lyanna_Lou]

I personally hope that Brienne and Jaime some how end up putting an end to Lady Stoneheart. The first time I read about Lady Stoneheart I was so disgusted that I didn't even connect that she was UnCat. Beric Dondarrion at least had the interesting storyline of being brought back so many times that he was weary of being around. I understand that he felt so sad, etc., when he came across Catelyn's corpse that he felt compelled to transfer the resurrection to her, but it just creeps me out all together.

Perhaps they will rid Westeros of UnCat through an accidental stabbing during a trial by combat? It would be Jaime who would do it, though, since he is the one who has been thrust into the role of Oathbreaker-Who-Actually-Does-Things-to-Protect-the-Greater-Good.

P.S. Sorry if I'm too vehement for a newbie. UnCat is just one character I could never abide.

[lostinwesteros]

GRRM already confirmed that the word that Brienne yelled out was

"SWORD", to save Podrick's life.

Do you by chance have a link or web address for this confirmation by Martin? I've been dying to find out what the word was, but I thought it was sort of an intentional 'mystery' left for us.

[Lissa Nymeros Martell]

hmm interesting. While reading I thought we were supposed to assume Brienne was undead and being controlled. Like The Hound since he had now been seen with that group though arya had left him for dead and it's unlikely anyone would nurse him back to health.

That whole section is a bit hazy.

Think Brienne will warn Jaime? Take Jaime's lead that sometimes you have to sacrifice honor when it makes sense.

[The Dornishman's Wife]

Do you by chance have a link or web address for this confirmation by Martin? I've been dying to find out what the word was, but I thought it was sort of an intentional 'mystery' left for us.

One confirmation that Brienne used her safeword is in this site's SSM collection.

Think Brienne will warn Jaime? Take Jaime's lead that sometimes you have to sacrifice honor when it makes sense.

That's a very interesting question, from several perspectives:

a) It's a double honesty conflict: Either Brienne lies to Jaime (and lures him into the trap) or she's lied to UnCat (and doesn't lure Jaime into a trap).

b) It's a loyalty conflict: On the one hand Brienne swore to Cat and this should perhaps carry over to UnCat, on the other hand UnCat is threatening to go against Cat's interests here by sabotaging the mission from Jaime to rescue Sansa & Arya. Throw in that Brienne's on a mission that Jaime gave her to maximize the loyalty confusion.

c) It's a who-to-save conflict: If Brienne reveals the trap to Jaime, she knows that Jaime might just call it quits and Pod dies (even forwarned, Jaime's chances in UnCat's camp are extremely low, why should he cooperate?). On the other hand, if she doesn't reveal, then she can be pretty sure that Jaime dies.

Some of these conflicts can be solved if Brienne can think of a master plan to rescue the hostages... though it's hard to see how. But it's still my best guess that this will be attempted, because I'd expect that Brienne would choose Pod's life over Jaime's, and still Jaime can't die: He's still got stuff to do (in particular valonqaring Cersei).

[Lissa Nymeros Martell]

a) It's a double honesty conflict: Either Brienne lies to Jaime (and lures him into the trap) or she's lied to UnCat (and doesn't lure Jaime into a trap).

B) It's a loyalty conflict: On the one hand Brienne swore to Cat and this should perhaps carry over to UnCat, on the other hand UnCat is threatening to go against Cat's interests here by sabotaging the mission from Jaime to rescue Sansa & Arya. Throw in that Brienne's on a mission that Jaime gave her to maximize the loyalty confusion.

c) It's a who-to-save conflict: If Brienne reveals the trap to Jaime, she knows that Jaime might just call it quits and Pod dies (even forwarned, Jaime's chances in UnCat's camp are extremely low, why should he cooperate?). On the other hand, if she doesn't reveal, then she can be pretty sure that Jaime dies.

Some of these conflicts can be solved if Brienne can think of a master plan to rescue the hostages... though it's hard to see how. But it's still my best guess that this will be attempted, because I'd expect that Brienne would choose Pod's life over Jaime's, and still Jaime can't die: He's still got stuff to do (in particular valonqaring Cersei).

Great points! Jaime is in command of a sizable company right now. Brienne knows the location of Lady Stoneheart. Podrick may not survive but she'd be essentially sacrificing Jaime's life for his. Being placed in the middle of two bad decisions sucks.

It's great that I have no idea what Brienne will choose.

[Tini]

Some of these conflicts can be solved if Brienne can think of a master plan to rescue the hostages... though it's hard to see how. But it's still my best guess that this will be attempted, because I'd expect that Brienne would choose Pod's life over Jaime's, and still Jaime can't die: He's still got stuff to do (in particular valonqaring Cersei).

I think Brienne couldn't come up with a plan so far, and I don't expect her to come up with one. The story she told Jaime most likely came straight from Lem the Hound.

But Brienne is a poor liar. Jaime will realize that something is amiss rather sooner than later, and will get the truth out of her eventually. If there is going to be a plan, he'll be the one to come up with it.

If Brienne and Lem manage to ambush him successfully, I expect Thoros of Myr will come to the rescue.

And Ser Ilyn Payne, of course. If Podrick Payne's life is in the balance, what are the chances of his only living relative being in the area but not showing up?