Ib to Asshai: Can the Crow's Eye be believed? (Long)

[The Mountain That Flies]

I just don't see how Euron expects Victarion to act on his behalf. Victarion would have the horn, the dragons and Dany. What would bring him back to Pyke?

If Euron never expected Vic to meet anyone else who could help with the horn, he may have already done something to make himself its master. So, if everything went according to Euron's plan, the horn would get blown and the dragons would follow Vic (or more specifically, they would follow the horn as it travelled back west). Vic returns to Pyke planning to kill his brother (Euron knows Vic hates him), but when the dragons meeet Euron, they defect to him.

[Yakman]

I think his claims are believable.

1 - We don't know anything about Euron's backstory beyond a few key facts. But he's a grown man. He may have made several voyages of note in the past, the exploits of which are commonly known.

2 - the only one who doubts him is the Reader, and his doubt is ONLY voiced about Euron going to Valyria. Asha, Victarion, and Dhamphair evince no doubt about Euron's voyages, save perhaps going to Valyria itself.

3 - It is known that the Dragonlords of Valyria used Horns to control dragons. The Freehold has only been gone for 400 years. Euron brings out the Horn because people know this, I think. It may not be what he claims (would Mel know what a Dragon horn looked like?) but it may well be a real dragon horn.

4 - The Reader doesn't say WHY he doubts Euron's claim of going to Valyria, but the doubt may not be related to the Horn's province. It might simply be because Valyria is really, really dangerous, and it may well be that no one has ever returned from there.

Now, I don't know IF Euron is telling the truth about Valyria, but I don't see why he couldn't have had reaved throughout the rest of the world.

[Lord Of Lite]

Wonder is it significant that there are three horns that have been seen in the books? The one that Jon has at the Wall. The one that Sam spoke of being amongst the cargo with his party on their travel to Oldtown. And the one that Victarion has in his possession. I'm really intrigued by the way Victarion's story has been set out. It's one of the resolutions I'm looking forward to the most. Just hope GRRM doesn't jump the kraken.

[Lord Ravenstark]

I believe that the horn is real but I doubt that he went to Valyria to find this horn... as far as I know the Targaryens had to control their dragons somehow else than locking them in a pit.

[Steinnis]

Wonder is it significant that there are three horns that have been seen in the books? The one that Jon has at the Wall. The one that Sam spoke of being amongst the cargo with his party on their travel to Oldtown. And the one that Victarion has in his possession. I'm really intrigued by the way Victarion's story has been set out. It's one of the resolutions I'm looking forward to the most. Just hope GRRM doesn't jump the kraken.

There's also a mention of a Kraken horn, that's in Lord Celtigar's castle, he's one of Stannis' bannermen. It was mentioned in a Davos chapter, there's also mention of several Kraken sightings in the books. Varys mentioned one, and another was seen near Dorne. The latter was mentioned in an Arianne sample chapter. Imagine the Damphair got hold of it...

[Silent_Hero]

Something is seriously fishy about Euron.

The Reader calls him out on traveling to Valyria and the Crows Eye shuts him down in seconds. The Reader might be on to something.

[Nucky Thompson]

If he went to Braavos, he saw all gods. :dunno:

That's the important part of this thread's speculation. Moreover, "throwing the dragon egg into the sea" may metaphorically mean that he simply gave it to the Braavosi (with them being a sea nation and all). This would explain the Faceless Man's involvement in Balon's deposition. What's more, I think that Braavos will align itself with the Ironborn for at least two more reasons. Bear with me, the speculation is as follows:

1] Cotter Pyke (who himself is an Ironborn) is in quite a precarious position right now. If we assume that he is alive (and such an important guy can't really die so off-screen, at least a prologue/epilogue seems necessary), he is besieged in Hardhome without means of escape. His pleas for aid from Jon would've been heeded, had it not been for the Lord Commander's assassination taking place. (We may further speculate that said assassination also had some Braavosi involvement - if they would not have Cotter Pyke saved by the Night's Watch, for example. They already have a trade agreement with Jon, he is not really needed anymore. Also, Tycho Nestoris' arrival - in the middle of a blizzard, mind you - may have had different aims entirely, and not merely collecting interest payments from a new loan. So far no one has implicated the Faceless Men in Jon Snow's murder, but while multiple other parties would have the motive but not necessarily the means, the Faceless Men would definitely have the means to do it. This doesn't bode so well for Stannis, either, since he was the next customer of the Iron Bank and might only live to take Winterfell and then conveniently disappear from the story, leaving it into the hands of a lord who is more likeable to the Braavosi.) Nevertheless, I predict that a Braavosi fleet will sail to Hardhome to do something of import - either to see what's up with its ships which are commandeered there, or to eliminate all witnesses and prevent word from spreading. This might be necessary if the past events in Hardhome were truly triggered by Moonsingers, who subsequently fled to Braavos. Either that, or due to the same heritage, they feel that a Stark has to rule Winterfell once again and treat with Stannis with such a goal in mind.

2] The second focal point of Braavos and the Ironborn is Daenerys. For good reasons (freeing slaves) or for bad ones (her possession of dragons), the Braavosi will necessarily interact with her before the series is over. In doing so, they are likely to bump into Victarion, who is currently on his way to Meereen.

3] And lastly, it is clear that the Faceless Men have a lot to do with Euron's ascension to the Seastone Chair. With both nations being naval powers, the Sealord either seeks to consolidate a larger fleet and possess bigger influence on the high seas, or wants to subdue a potentially dangerous seaborne rival.

4] The Faceless Man in the Citadel might not be there only to steal something and learn a certain secret, but to, metaphorically, "open the gates" for Euron's advancing force. The Lord Hightower may feel confident in his defensive capabilities, but he couldn't really be expecting (and preparing for) a diversion by a Faceless Man.

5] Finally, it has been speculated on this forum that Aeron Damphair's preachings may have a certain connection with the Others and that his disappearance from the Iron Islands may be due to him going to meet the Great Other. In that regard, the Braavosi may either be pro-Other or anti-Other, but as with Cotter Pyke's adventures, they certainly have something in mind.

It would be much more conclusive to see Braavos interact with all things Ironborn, instead on only one front. Since they have already provided aid to Euron (who is not really the type of guy to promise them principal + interest payments), they must have some agenda which aligns with the Ironborn agenda. A dragon egg might serve well in this regard - either to have them destroy it/to give it to Daenerys to hatch (what a hen she is)/to raise their own dragons - the author only knows.

[direwienerdog]

Good thread. One thing briefly though

There's really no reason to think it was Euron's intention to "trick" Victarion into blowing the horn, because if you recall, during their discussion on the shield islands after the feast, Euron specifically mentions to Victarion that his slave who blew the dragon horn died. He went into detail about what the Maesters told him of the body, his charred lungs and all. So he's telling Victarion that the man who blew the horn was quite obviously killed by the horn. If he was hoping Victarion would get "greedy" and blow the horn himself, he wouldn't have told him about that. He would've let him experiment on his own

Doesn't Moqorro tell Vic " no mortal man may blow the horn and live?" Does this exclude a woman?

[Ser Endrew Tarth]

I believe that the horn is real but I doubt that he went to Valyria to find this horn... as far as I know the Targaryens had to control their dragons somehow else than locking them in a pit.

Well Valyrians are not exactly Targs, though Targs were at one time Valyrian. IIRC there is no mention of the Targs of Westeros using binding horns, but they were rumored (or the knowledge was past down through the targs) that the horns were used to dragonbind in Old Valyria before the doom. Perhaps the Targs were special in having blood that was somehow special for binding and could forego the use of a horn, hence their penchant for in-breeding.

Doesn't Moqorro tell Vic " no mortal man may blow the horn and live?" Does this exclude a woman?

Interesting thought...

[Lord Ravenstark]

Doesn't Moqorro tell Vic " no mortal man may blow the horn and live?" Does this exclude a woman?

And someone like the the fire zombies (Melisandre and Catelyn)?

[Mrs_Darcy]

The Bravoosi may have helped Euron at the beginning, but I think this ended the moment, that they heard he was selling captives of the shield islands into slavery.

I just cannot imagine the Bravoosi, especially the Faceless Men supporting anyone, who is a slaver.

[Tyryan Lannister]

Wonder is it significant that there are three horns that have been seen in the books? The one that Jon has at the Wall. The one that Sam spoke of being amongst the cargo with his party on their travel to Oldtown. And the one that Victarion has in his possession. I'm really intrigued by the way Victarion's story has been set out. It's one of the resolutions I'm looking forward to the most. Just hope GRRM doesn't jump the kraken.

There's also a mention of a Kraken horn, that's in Lord Celtigar's castle, he's one of Stannis' bannermen. It was mentioned in a Davos chapter, there's also mention of several Kraken sightings in the books. Varys mentioned one, and another was seen near Dorne. The latter was mentioned in an Arianne sample chapter. Imagine the Damphair got hold of it...

Jon doesn't have a horn at the Wall; the one he found at the Fist he gave to Sam and is the one that he took with him to Oldtown. As to other horns, we have: the one that Mance found (Mel has since burned it); the one that Euron brought back (now in Vic's possession); the aforementioned Kraken horn, and the Horn of Herrock, which is currently in possession of Ser Kennos of Kayce.