The bleeding star in the sky

[King of Winters]

Nope, I notice it too. Same thing happens with dragons vs. dragon. There's waking stone dragons, but then two kings to wake the dragon, singular.

Could the singular and plural thing mean, and this is a crackpot thought, the "star" is when Ser Arthur Dayne was killed, that's one bleeding star. And the "stars" is when Ser Patrek is killed and bleeding. Bith are connected to Jon as they were around when he was born and killed.

So the star was singular when Ser Arthur died, but became plural when Ser Patrek died, which makes two bleeding stars.

[J. Stargaryen]

Is it me or am I the only one who finds it weird how some of the prophecies have "stars" (plural) and "star" (singular)?

No, and it's funny, but when I read both neither of them rules out the star/Stark idea. The Starks have certainly been bleeding during the series. For that matter, the first line of Bran I in AGoT is

The morning had dawned clear and cold, with a crispness that hinted at the end of summer.

- which seems to line up nicely with

There will come a day after a long summer when the stars bleed and the cold breath of darkness falls heavy on the world. In this dread hour a warrior shall draw from the fire a burning sword. And that sword shall be Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes, and he who clasps it shall be Azor Ahai come again, and the darkness shall flee before him.

[Bartimus Stone]

Could it be the Red Star or comet is going to smash into Westeros completely destroying everything including White Walkers. That this is the second coming of Old Valyria. That the comet is the promised prince that will save the realm from themselves and the others.

[yolkboy]

Could the singular and plural thing mean, and this is a crackpot thought, the "star" is when Ser Arthur Dayne was killed, that's one bleeding star. And the "stars" is when Ser Patrek is killed and bleeding. Bith are connected to Jon as they were around when he was born and killed.

So the star was singular when Ser Arthur died, but became plural when Ser Patrek died, which makes two bleeding stars.

Regarding ser Patrek. I cant find the interview, but Ser Pat was created as a character very late on in procedings. He was created to fulfill a lost bet by GRRM, and the details of his sigil were an in joke with the friend who won the bet. I really think he's another red herring.

[yolkboy]

Regarding ser Patrek. I cant find the interview, but Ser Pat was created as a character very late on in procedings. He was created to fulfill a lost bet by GRRM, and the details of his sigil were an in joke with the friend who won the bet. I really think he's another red herring.

heres the piece...

http://www.npr.org/2012/09/15/161142894/thrones-author-george-r-r-martin-plays-not-my-job

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Could it be the Red Star or comet is going to smash into Westeros completely destroying everything including White Walkers. That this is the second coming of Old Valyria. That the comet is the promised prince that will save the realm from themselves and the others.

Badass ending :cheers:

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

No, and it's funny, but when I read both neither of them rules out the star/Stark idea. The Starks have certainly been bleeding during the series. For that matter, the first line of Bran I in AGoT is - which seems to line up nicely with

You're right, that does line up nicely.

The problem with the prophecies, it seems, is largely threefold.

1. We have yet to see any prophecy in its entirety. At best we just have different pieces of them.

2. When snippets of prophecy seem to refer to the same thing, but there are discrepancies (like dragons vs. dragon), how should we decide which one is "correct"?

3. It's difficult to know whether different-sounding prophecies actually refer to the same thing, e.g. Azor Ahai and the Prince That Was Promised.

Another possibility I've considered is that it's actually two (or three, or four ...) discrete prophecies, but they have such significant similarities that any discrepancies that would otherwise denote their difference (like singular or multiple dragons, stars, whatever) get written off as translational or hearsay issues. Meaning, waking stone dragons and two kings to wake a dragon might actually refer to two different things, but this is lost because instead of hitting on the difference (plural vs. singular), we see the similarity and automatically assume it's the same thing.

[Muggle]

"When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt."

............................

Why cant this be a series of events. And not happen all at once?

Azor Ahai doesn't have to be reborn during the comment its acceptable for AA to be reborn AFTER the red star comes and darkness gathers

[King of Winters]

Regarding ser Patrek. I cant find the interview, but Ser Pat was created as a character very late on in procedings. He was created to fulfill a lost bet by GRRM, and the details of his sigil were an in joke with the friend who won the bet. I really think he's another red herring.

heres the piece...

http://www.npr.org/2012/09/15/161142894/thrones-author-george-r-r-martin-plays-not-my-job

I think it was Jon's Queen Consort that said, a while back, that GRRM would lie and say it was a joke to cover it up as the bleeding star, or something like that. I've forgotten what she said exactly, but if anyone can remember what she said exactly then post a link. But it was something like GRRM waving it off as a joke to lie quickly.

[yolkboy]

Is it me or am I the only one who finds it weird how some of the prophecies have "stars" (plural) and "star" (singular)?

To further what I said before about the singular and plural of 'dragon' and 'star', I personally believe both instances are singular, and there has just been exaggeration and mistranslation over the ages. One 'dragon' one 'star' for me, and the references to the plural are really basically the same prophesy.

[yolkboy]

I think it was Jon's Queen Consort that said, a while back, that GRRM would lie and say it was a joke to cover it up as the bleeding star, or something like that. I've forgotten what she said exactly, but if anyone can remember what she said exactly then post a link. But it was something like GRRM waving it off as a joke to lie quickly.

I don't think he lies about things. He's evasive, avoidant and very clever with his interview answers. But outright lies? I don't think so, I give him more credit than that. If his riddles hold any weight, he won't need to lie about them. And if the reader guesses them, he can always use his 'interesting question' go-to vagueness response.

[King of Winters]

I don't think he lies about things. He's evasive, avoidant and very clever with his interview answers. But outright lies? I don't think so, I give him more credit than that. If his riddles hold any weight, he won't need to lie about them. And if the reader guesses them, he can always use his 'interesting question' go-to vagueness response.

Maybe, but it would make sense of he waved it off as a joke to cover it up.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Maybe, but it would make sense of he waved it off as a joke to cover it up.

Here's my question: are the Patrek sigil as an inside joke and Patrek being a/the bleeding star mutually exclusive?

[Joe Pine]

"When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt."

............................

Why cant this be a series of events. And not happen all at once?

Azor Ahai doesn't have to be reborn during the comment its acceptable for AA to be reborn AFTER the red star comes and darkness gathers

The red star is a comet. They have a path through space, they come back on occasion.

Mr Martin won't say Westeros is on this planet in a similar star system to earth, so lets just guess that it is and that the comet can come back.

Would it hit planetos? Create darkness by an impact? Would the comet's rock creating the trail have a form of salt in it? What type of rock creates a red trail? For it to have been seen so well it must have passed close to Planetos, so will it be on a path to return and hit Westeros?

Could that be enough heat to zap wights and White Walkers?

[yolkboy]

Maybe, but it would make sense of he waved it off as a joke to cover it up.

It would compromise his integrity as a writer if he started bullshitting his rabid audience. That makes no sense to me, given the work he's put into the series, and the relationship he has developed with his fans. It's clear by what he said about 'Lost' he does not want to cheat his audience in any way, shape or form. I mean, are you going to discard all his SSM's now?

[yolkboy]

Here's my question: are the Patrek sigil as an inside joke and Patrek being a/the bleeding star mutually exclusive?

Reading the interview link i posted, I would say purely inside joke.

So I invented a character called Ser Patrek of King's Mountain and described his heraldry as looking somewhat like the heraldry of the Dallas Cowboys with the silver star on a white field.

But I guess you have to make your own mind up on that.

[J. Stargaryen]

You're right, that does line up nicely.

The problem with the prophecies, it seems, is largely threefold.

1. We have yet to see any prophecy in its entirety. At best we just have different pieces of them.

2. When snippets of prophecy seem to refer to the same thing, but there are discrepancies (like dragons vs. dragon), how should we decide which one is "correct"?

3. It's difficult to know whether different-sounding prophecies actually refer to the same thing, e.g. Azor Ahai and the Prince That Was Promised.

Another possibility I've considered is that it's actually two (or three, or four ...) discrete prophecies, but they have such significant similarities that any discrepancies that would otherwise denote their difference (like singular or multiple dragons, stars, whatever) get written off as translational or hearsay issues. Meaning, waking stone dragons and two kings to wake a dragon might actually refer to two different things, but this is lost because instead of hitting on the difference (plural vs. singular), we see the similarity and automatically assume it's the same thing.

Yes! GRRM is a master of misdirection and setting traps (e.g., singular vs plural). And if he's not doing that, he's presenting the reader with multiple options at some point, where one choice looks as good as the next.

---

Just to clarify my previous thoughts before I start watching UFC:

Day is to Dayne as star is to Stark. This is per Ran/Elio's

So, all you need to do is simply read the word star as Stark.

When the red star Stark bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone.

Red Stark = Jon Snow. Since the color red is not in any way associated with the Starks, this would be a useful way of differentiating him from the other Starks. Much in the same way that we think he might be an ice dragon, which differentiates him from other Targaryens.

Chronologically, this fits in well with the idea that Jon is AAr. Last time we saw Jon Snow he was bleeding, though he was not yet AAr.

There will come a day after a long summer when the stars Starks bleed and the cold breath of darkness falls heavy on the world. In this dread hour a warrior shall draw from the fire a burning sword. And that sword shall be Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes, and he who clasps it shall be Azor Ahai come again, and the darkness shall flee before him.

Per the first line of the first chapter of the series*, (the long) summer is coming to an end. Within the year House Stark starts to bleed, both literally and figuratively.

*

The morning had dawned clear and cold, with a crispness that hinted at the end of summer.

- Bran I

[King of Winters]

Reading the interview link i posted, I would say purely inside joke.

But I guess you have to make your own mind up on that.

Maybe he already had a character with a star as a sigil and gave it to Ser Patrek?

[bloodsteel bitterraven]

When the red comet appeared, the dragons were born. Dany and her dragons are Azor Ahai reborn. If old Nan and Aemon Targaryen say it, it must be true.

[yolkboy]

Here's my question: are the Patrek sigil as an inside joke and Patrek being a/the bleeding star mutually exclusive?

Thinking more about this... don't you think GRRM knew exactly who/what the red star would be when he wrote the original prophesies? Would make no sense for him to have to 'invent' a half baked character to fulfill the prophesy. It has to be something with more weight and meaning, surely. To me, anyway.