bemused Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 I think all the hair washing and the soaking in the hot bath only makes it seem more likely that it's not his real appearance . It doesn't seem possible that he could have come through the fire without getting that hair singed (at least ) and suffering some burns ( e.g.Biter's body is covered in half-healed burns ) and even if he could use a glamour to disguise it , he wouldn't want to spend long periods of time in hot water. (ouch!) But I do think the FM likes to be clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estheros Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 I always assumed that he said Red God because he (and the other two) was saved from death in fire-R'hllor's speciality.I read recently that people here think his original face is the Alchemist,that's why he just needed to touch his Jaquen face with his hands only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iona Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 I always assumed that he said Red God because he (and the other two) was saved from death in fire-R'hllor's speciality. This is how I also interpreted it - Arya saved Jaqen, Rorge and Biter from being burned to death, therefore stealing 3 deaths from the Red God. If they had been on a sinking ship when saved, he would have said "the Drowned God must have his due". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crow's Third Eye Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 This is how I also interpreted it - Arya saved Jaqen, Rorge and Biter from being burned to death, therefore stealing 3 deaths from the Red God. If they had been on a sinking ship when saved, he would have said "the Drowned God must have his due".interesting, thank you :) Regardless of that, I still think Jaqen is rogue. He doesnt seem to follow what we know of the FM code, there is something up with him i think. Perhaps he was bougt by someone rich to be their personal assassain because of his FM training. Really anything we guess now though wont have a great deal of backig i suppose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
direwienerdog Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 I think we all tend to either overly simplify or complicate the Cult of the FM. I suspect the answer is something in between. The FM are a death cult. This is true, but I also believe they have a much more cunning agenda than just murder for hire. I don't think Jaqen is a rogue FM. He is on FM business and everything he has done serves the FM agenda from being in the Black Cells to protecting Arya to ending up in the Citidal. The FM serve the Many Faced God but the House of Black and White has endless alcoves with statues of all the Gods of Essos and Westeros. To me it seems they are saying all the God's are valued and he of Many Faces is just the culmination of all these gods. However the FM are especially interested in the God's that represent death and release from the pain of life. The FM definitely have a hidden agenda and I believe Arya was recruited by Jaqen as a part of that agenda. Just as the Lannisters, LF and the Tyrell's think Sansa is their key to the North, the FM believe Arya is key to Dany and her conquests. ARYA isn't being trained because the KM feels sorry for her. The question is what exactly is the FM agenda. Alas we can only speculate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crow's Third Eye Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 I think we all tend to either overly simplify or complicate the Cult of the FM.I suspect the answer is something in between. The FM are a death cult. This is true, but I also believe they have a much more cunning agenda than just murder for hire.I don't think Jaqen is a rogue FM. He is on FM business and everything he has done serves the FM agenda from being in the Black Cells to protecting Arya to ending up in the Citidal.The FM serve the Many Faced God but the House of Black and White has endless alcoves with statues of all the Gods of Essos and Westeros. To me it seems they are saying all the God's are valued and he of Many Faces is just the culmination of all these gods. However the FM are especially interested in the God's that represent death and release from the pain of life.The FM definitely have a hidden agenda and I believe Arya was recruited by Jaqen as a part of that agenda.Just as the Lannisters, LF and the Tyrell's think Sansa is their key to the North, the FM believe Arya is key to Dany and her conquests. ARYA isn't being trained because the KM feels sorry for her.The question is what exactly is the FM agenda. Alas we can only speculate.I don't think there will be a hidden agenda of the FM. You have to bear in mind that the series is supposed to be complete in another two books. If that's going to be the case then Martin will be tying up loose ends, he wont be starting something new and adding more layers to the story.What is your evidence that the FM have a hidden agenda? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
direwienerdog Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 I don't think there will be a hidden agenda of the FM. You have to bear in mind that the series is supposed to be complete in another two books. If that's going to be the case then Martin will be tying up loose ends, he wont be starting something new and adding more layers to the story. What is your evidence that the FM have a hidden agenda? Jaqen being in the Citidal for one. Why is he there? Is it to find books to kill dragons? We don't know. Why train a prepubescent girl to be a FM? If that's not a hidden agenda what is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 I read recently that people here think his original face is the Alchemist,that's why he just needed to touch his Jaquen face with his hands only. Or he touches his original face to become the Alchemist: “I asked him how he changed his face... Jaqen used magic.”“All sorcery comes at a cost, child. Years of prayer and sacrifice and study are required to work a proper glamor.” "Jaqen H'ghar" from the app: A mysterious foreigner claiming to be from the Free City of Lorath...He then magically changes before her eyes, taking on the appearance, voice, and manner of someone else entirely.Aliases: Alchemist, Pate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MindLikeWarp Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 FM Wolfpac vs FM Hollywood :fencing: The Red and Black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crow's Third Eye Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 Jaqen being in the Citidal for one. Why is he there? Is it to find books to kill dragons? We don't know. Why train a prepubescent girl to be a FM?If that's not a hidden agenda what is?yes but this is circumstantial. This works as evidence to both depending on what you claim; its evidence that Jaquen is rogue and also evidence that the FM are dabbling. And the kindly man repeatedly tells Arya she can leave. I don't think he cares whether she remains with them or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mohor Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 Or he touches his original face to become the Alchemist: "Jaqen H'ghar" from the app: There's no more evidence for, Jaqen->Alchemist->Pate. Than for the true identity of this particular FM.. Only big clues, wich seems to point in that direction.. And I agree with jaqen to pate theory.. But IMO it's far more likely for the alchemist to be the default looks of this FM, IF we've even seen him, considering it takes a dried up face, from a corpse, plus blood magic, to make a realistic new glamor, maybe he could've fooled Arya with something less, but all the way to the citadel?... He is called Jaqen, because that's how he got introduced, and his other identities haven't really done much, on screen.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 A glamor doesn't need a dried up face from a corpse. See the quote from KM above, it's different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noSer Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 yes but this is circumstantial. This works as evidence to both depending on what you claim; its evidence that Jaquen is rogue and also evidence that the FM are dabbling. And the kindly man repeatedly tells Arya she can leave. I don't think he cares whether she remains with them or not There is also the story of their origins to consider. They were born at the height of the Freehold living in hell mining a volcano. Every other mention of Valarya by a Bravosi is full of hate and scorn for dragons and sorcery. Its not a huge leap to connect the FM to anti-dragon sentiments. Then add in Tyrion naming Death of Dragons as the best surviving text, and the tidbit that the only copy is locked safely in a vault that a FM killed to acquire a key to. Pretty strong circumstantial case. Also there is confusion here as to his mission. This is not a contract hit so saying he is rogue or the KM is lying to Arya bc she's being taught things contrary to Jaquens actions makes no sense. Arya is taught not to harm innocents but i see that as a test (kill this man without harming anyone else and u get an A) not as a rule. Even if it is a rule Jaquen isn't there in someones hire, rather as an agent of the FM. A death cult can't have that big of an issue with killing anyone, and certainly subscribe to a Machiavellian ideology when dragons are the issue. Pate was only the first of many more gifts the FM plan to give away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.