bent branch

First, your idea about the Valyrian steel armor is great. I wouldn't be surprised if some version of your idea wasn't correct. I don't know if Euron ends up on the IT before Aegon, but I wouldn't object. Of course, I'm someone who thinks Aegon is the one who will end up on the IT in the end. I wouldn't be surprised if greyscale did end up as part of the whole mess. However, I think it will be on the other side of the equation. I think wights with greyscale will make it harder to kill them.

These ships are most certainly the ships from Cersei. Exactly what is going on with them is hard to say. On the surface it would appear to be Aurane taking up piracy with them in the Stepstones. I think somehow it is actually Saan.

The comparisons being made to Melisandre are not misguided. However, Melisandre has two qualities that are not often enough considered separately. Melisandre is a red priest and she is a shadow binder. If the characteristic being displayed is one of the red priests', than we should consider other red priests. However, if the characteristic derives from her being a shadow binder, then we should consider the shadow binders we know. This is why I think Quaithe.

Or maybe the horn has already been blown for Euron. Maybe whatever magic is in the horn has already done its work. If that is the case it doesn't matter where the horn is or who has it. He didn't accompany Vic because he manipulated Vic into going. By giving Vic the horn and the illusion of being in charge, Euron manipulated Vic into doing what he wanted him to. Really, the textual clues suggest Euron is going to Meereen. The only things being offered against this are rationalizations for things people don't want to happen story wise.

No, what we have to ask ourselves is, is there anything in the story that indicates that Euron has changed his mind in the least? GRRM has established in story that Euron wishes to go to Meereen and marry Dany. I have provided textual evidence that Euron wishes to go to Meereen. Can you or anyone else provide evidence to the contrary? Indeed, the evidence is that Euron intended to destroy the Redwyne fleet before heading east even under Plan A. Notice this exchange from Chapter 29-AFFC: It seems that Euron was planning on the battle with the Redwyne fleet even before the Ironborn said they wouldn't go to Meereen. This means the delay to fight the Redwyne fleet is not something that occurs because of the change of plans. The reason for destroying Redwyne's fleet before heading east is because of what the Reader said. The Iron Fleet, traveling half across the world in autumn would take a terrible beating by the time it returns to Westeros. By destroying the only remaining fleet in Westeros (known to Euron), Euron makes the return to Westeros much easier. Something else he can offer to Dany. The only thing that changes in Euron's plan is that instead of trying to take all the uncontrollable Ironborn, Euron sends Victarion ahead with the only Ironborn that have been taught to obey orders. He leaves Victarion in charge because they obey Vic and Euron can't be sure they'd continue to obey without him. The point in Euron and his crew showing up later is that they will be a surprise. GRRM doesn't like to do surprises without leaving breadcrumbs saying he's going to do it, but it seems pretty obvious from Chapter 29-(The Reaver)-AFFC and this sample chapter-The Forsaken-TWOW, that GRRM intends for Euron to show up unexpectedly in Meereen. ETA: I am going to answer your question about why not send Euron directly to Dany. The reason is because Euron=Daario. Not in the way the proponents of that silly theory think, but because both Euron and Daario can offer something to Dany (Daario about 500 mercenaries and Euron about 5 ships of pirates), but neither can offer Dany enough to make them marriage material. That is why Euron bothers to return to the Iron Islands and become king. He needs to have a title and enough resources to make him a suitable marriage partner for Dany. Otherwise, he is just another Daario and Euron is smart enough to know that isn't enough.

I don't know why I didn't notice this until your post, but you're right. It could be him. If he was heading into Astapor while Dany was there he may have seen the dragons flying in the sky. But if he came in after she left he would have noticed the devastation she left behind. I'm sure that got Euron's complete attention. I don't think he would have since he really had nothing to offer her and he wasn't powerful enough to take Dany and her entourage. I think this is why he returned to the Iron Islands so that he would have something to offer her. As Lord Varys has been pointing out, even if Euron could take anywhere in Westeros, he couldn't keep it if it was too far from the sea. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Which brings me to the reading I've been doing and I am positive that after Euron takes out the Redwyne and Hightower fleets he is heading to Meereen not Oldtown. To understand why this is so we need to answer the question, "Why did Euron send Vic to Dany?" The answer to this is that Euron's Plan A fell through and sending Vic was Plan B. This is made quite clear in Chapter 29-AFFC. First lets look at what Plan A was: So Euron's Plan A was to go to Meereen and get Dany. He has no interest in Oldtown or any other place except as places to reave and get any needed supplies. Euron's first plan was to take all of the Iron Born and go get Dany. Euron has no plans to try to take Westeros without Dany and the dragons. The reason they didn't go east is because the Iron Born told Euron flat out no. Rodrik the Reader spoke, but everyone besides Euron's own men were in agreement. We have heard so much about Iron Born independence and we see here that even Euron is unable to control them. So the fleet that Euron was planning to offer to Dany as a potential partner didn't cooperate. As Euron told Vic, “I had forgotten what a small and noisy folk they are, my ironborn. I would bring them dragons, and they shout for grapes.”Euron needed a Plan B: So Euron never had any intention of attacking anywhere in Westeros. His intention all along was to take all of the IB and pledge them to Dany. Since that didn't work out, he had Vic deliver the Iron Fleet to Dany. He takes the time to wipe out the Hightower and Redwyne fleets, but then plans to follow Vic to Meereen. Euron is completely aware that he can't advance his plans in Westeros without Dany. Since he has no plans that don't include Dany and the dragons, the woman in the vision can only be Dany or Quaithe. It is definitely not Cersei. So in summary, Euron isn't going to Oldtown or anywhere in Westeros. He is following Vic to Meereen.

The one thing for certain that the Qartheen warlocks tells us is that Euron was indeed in the area of the world he claimed to be. Supposedly Euron came upon the warlocks on their way to Slaver's Bay. This means he had to have caught them somewhere between Qarth and Slaver's Bay. The only three things of interest in that area are Qarth, Slaver's Bay, and the Smoking Sea (Valyria). So Euron was in that area of the world at the same time as Dany and her dragons. Hell, Euron may have already seen the dragons. The question is why has he returned to Westeros? What is it that he needs from the Iron Islands? Answer, the Iron Fleet. All the stuff is he doing in Westeros at this point is just distraction. He can't really do anything until he has Dany and those dragons. I think there is a good chance that Euron was actually in Qarth when Dany arrived from the red waste. I'm re-reading pertinent chapters to get a better feel for what Euron actually knows.

Sure. I can understand making a prediction. I do that myself. However, both D&D and GRRM have said that the books and show will deviate more and more from this point out. I see no reason to doubt any of them.

I wouldn't count on the TV show for anything as far as the books.

This is one interpretation that I could support. Another possibility is the small council as they have a pair of Valyrian sphinxes outside their door. I do favor the Citadel myself though.

I gave it an 8. I found the northern lords change of heart contrived. The High Sparrow not allowing people to leave the sept was contrived. After all, why would he not allow the spectators to leave if they wanted to? The sept blowing up was spectacular though. I suppose Cersei could crown herself, however it is a mystery where she gets her power from. I like Sam and Gilly at the Citadel. I didn't like the Frey pie. Why would Arya take the time to do that? Didn't mind that she killed Walder. I didn't mind Varys going back and forth. I just accept time passed. And you could see Tyrell, Martell, Greyjoy and Targaryen sails. It was obvious he had kind of a direct ride back to Meereen. I suppose the mop up in Meereen was okay. I guess leaving Daario was enough. Some have said this was about fan service and I agree. Really, none of these events were particularly surprising as they have been discussed around the fandom for years. Just about the only sub-fandom that didn't get what it wanted was Sansa's.

Well what do you know? I'm a pretty typical reviewer around here. It does seem that people who think the books are very flawed like the show better. As long as everyone understands this makes other people's criticisms (using this definition of criticism: the analysis and judgment of the merits and faults of a literary or artistic work) of the show no less valid. ----------------------------------------------------------- As to my rating of this episode. 7/10. I know many people will think this too low, but the show regularly gets a 5 from me based on technical excellence alone. Therefore, any additional points must come from the storyline and writing. I think D & D are very good producers. However, they suck as writers. It makes me think of the Peter Principle, which is basically the idea that people rise to the level of their own incompetence.

5/10. I can't bring myself to rate this show any lower because it has wonderful production values, actors and music. However the writing is very bad. Brienne and Pod sneaking out of Riverrun. I think that says it all. ETA: From what I'd heard, I expected the guys head getting ripped off to be more graphic. I'm glad it wasn't.

I think the woman is Quaithe. It is obvious that Euron was near Qarth and Quaithe didn't warn Dany against Euron. She warned Dany against everyone else, but not Euron. I think that is significant.

5/10. I'm trying really hard to think of what to say, but all I can think of is what a hot mess.

I gave this one a 7. I think the North and Kings Landing story lines are totally messed up, but I actually like the Meereen and Dothraki storylines. Sorry, I think Sansa is unbearable. Jon: "He has Rickon!" Sansa: "It ain't no big thing."

5/10. This was some pretty weak tea. I have been reading people's reactions to this season and I have waited until now to watch. I guess I've been kind of afraid of what I'd see. It's not as bad as I had feared, but it also not very good. I can see the dick jokes wearing thin. They already annoy me. The dragon sequence was the best part, but now I'm wondering if I saw that tonight or last night. The Bolton sequence was silly. Horrifying, but silly. All the family killing is silly as hell. Also, it is probably just my little pet peeve, but Aeron is the youngest of the sons of Quellon. In the books he is in his mid thirties. Euron is in his late 40 to early 50's. Maybe that priest wasn't Aeron? Well, I'll have to see how the rest of this goes.

I finally got around to watching this episode tonight. I'm giving it a 5. I watched both seasons of this really mediocre show, Extant, starring Halle Berry. At the beginning of the second season they did a complete reset of the storyline. While I watched somewhat bemused, by the end I understood what had changed between the two seasons and why the main character was in the situation she was in. Although doing a complete reset demonstrates a show is in trouble, I thought they did a good job. AGOT on the other hand, did a completely graceless reset on the Dorne storyline. I'm a little pissed they treated Alexander Siddig that way. As far as what people are choosing to vote, whether everyone realizes it or not, these ratings are all subjective. If a person comes off of watching the show and feels happy and excited then they will probably give a 9 or 10. If a person comes off of the show feeling angry or disgusted they will probably give a 1 or 2. I'm giving a 5 because I'm feeling, "Meh".

I thought Quellon was trying to reform the Iron Islanders?

You say that like being Azor Ahai is a good thing.

The interesting thing is that both of Euron's brothers were terrified of the guy. Neither Aeron or Victarion are cowards, far from it. But when they thought of Euron they went into full out panic mode. This should have told everyone just how terrible Euron was. However, most people talked about how boring Aeron was and couldn't GRRM have given his boring POV to someone more interesting. And they talked about how stupid Victarion was and couldn't GRRM have cut Victarion's POV since it was just filler. So, in some cases (not all), self-indulgent whining won out over reading comprehension. Not saying this is what happened in your case though.

Why are you so certain that Euron is not going to go to Meereen and get Dany? I was wrong about where his battle with the Redwyne fleet occur, but there is still every reason to think he will head toward Meereen once the Redwyne and Hightower fleets are destroyed. After he takes out the greatest threat to the IB reavers, he can head on out to get Dany. He really won't be able to do anything more in Westeros until he gets her. And although I don't like it, it appears he is the Greyjoy Dany has apparently been destined to marry. It also appears he is the stone beast. Another thing that needs to be taken into consideration is the fact that Moqorro says Euron is coming and Quaithe doesn't warn Dany about him at all. This suggests that Quaithe is working with Euron and Euron will indeed show up. There is every reason that once the two fleets have been destroyed Euron can and should go to Meereen himself. Now, you are wondering why I think Euron can leave Westeros after these battles. The reason is as you have pointed out, Euron can't win the throne with only his magic and no allies. He is going to need dragons to take Westeros. By defeating the two navies, particularly the Redwyne, before he goes he can re-enter Westeros with less opposition (he thinks-there is the Manderly fleet and we will have to see how that plays out). When Euron goes he will leave IB reaving across Westeros. They will be put down by the time Euron returns (as you've pointed out they will be put down even if Euron remains), but they will leave Westeros even weaker and more ripe for the picking. I have been wondering about why the IB are mainly attacking the Reach. The biggest reason is this is still the most powerful area left after the Wof5K. Only Dorne and the Vale will remain unblooded; both of these regions are not particularly susceptible to the IB form battle. Anyhow, I don't see any reason for Euron to remain in Westeros once this coming battle is complete. He has a strong reason to head toward Dany and the foreshadowing suggests these two share a path for at least a while.

I think Quaithe is in cahoots with Euron. I'm pretty sure now that she was warning Dany against the people who would keep her from Euron.

Remember Euron said he fed one of the wizards to the other wizards to make them bow to him. I think that is why the guy is missing his legs. I think Euron only took the legs. In Dany's vision they represented the people currently vying for the throne. I think they represent the same thing in Aeron's vision and I think that means they're Cersei and Aegon. What is more interesting about them is that there is only two. Stannis does not appear to be represented. This could be taken as a sign that Stannis has currently shoved winning the throne to the bottom of his to do list.

This chapter is very deceiving about what is going on and how much time is passing. For instance, we have no way of knowing how long Aeron's trips last. Aeron doesn't know where they are. And finally the chapter itself is rough. It doesn't even have consistency with itself. Anyhow, the timeline has Redwyne's fleet entering into the Stepstones no later than June 5th. They also couldn't have entered much earlier or Arianne would have seen them come around the other side before she left Sunspear. So, we can assume that Redwyne's fleet was somewhere around the Broken Arm around June 5th. This date would already make their trip from Dragonstone an exceptionally long one. This would explain the headwinds statement. The discrepancy between the length of Sam's trip and the time it has taken the Redwyne fleet has been noticed for some time. This discrepancy would make sense if the Redwyne fleet has been destroyed at some point in between. So far the only indication we've seen of a major sea battle is from Arianne 1. I have a feeling none of this will be at all confusing when we can read the whole book. Let's move on to another aspect for a moment. It appears Aeron is moved from a castle to a ship twice during the chapter. This doesn't really make sense because we don't see where Aeron is moved into the second castle. This maybe an artifact of the note taking or it maybe because GRRM is in the midst of reworking this chapter, but statements like the one you are relying on are not trustworthy in this situation. Another aspect to consider, how in the hell does Euron have any intelligence on the Hightowers or Redwyne fleet at all? They can't depend on raven's. Getting a glass candle from the wizards is not an unreasonable assumption. ETA: I have read a better version of the notes (seems like it may have been a transcribed recording). It is obvious that there was only one prison on a small island off of the Arbor during the entirety of the chapter and Aeron was only remembering what had happened since the kingsmoot. And yes, it does seem that they waited not only for Redwyne's fleet to round the Broken Arm, but also for Hightower to send out his fleet so that they could engage both fleets at once. And yes, this does seem to happen south of Dorne. I'll admit I was wrong about this. Perhaps the IB that were in that region had ravens from that small island and were sending reports back. Also, I got the impression that the holy people were somehow being used to protect the boats from whatever spell they were planning to make. Maybe it is reasonable to think Aeron survives this encounter.