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bent branch

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  1. bent branch

    What is the Illyrio Barristan connection?

    So you are agreeing with me that Cersei was the one being manipulated and Barristan was just collateral damage. Your logistical problem is a problem only in your head. Even if Viserys is dead Drogo with his Khalasar and Aegon with the Golden Company are still going to be brought together. Viserys just won't be part of that. Also, just because Drogo and Dany haven't been heard from doesn't mean Illyrio is going to try to win Barry over to team Aegon. The only thing he has to do is tell Barristan he is waiting to hear something. So your "logistics" are nothing. I will try to make my point about Barristan in another way. Barristan is not in a trusting mood. He has watched the bullshit fly for many years. Suddenly Illyrio is going to pull a dead Aegon out of his ass. Barristan is not going to believe that without some heavy duty evidence. It makes no sense for Illyrio to ruin Barristan's willingness to trust him when he doesn't even know what is going on with Dany and Drogo. They still need an army since Aegon isn't going to take back that throne with his good looks. But, but, but . . . I thought you thought he was so wonderfully special that Varys especially got Cersei to fire him so he will rediscover his love for Targaryens. And again. Why do argue so strongly that Varys was busy manipulating Barristan into rejoining the Targaryens, but are so quick to think they will happily kill him? And again, Aegon still needed that army. Illyrio would have waited to see what was happening with Dany and Drogo before giving up on them. And how were they going to explain Aegon's survival without doing that? Make up a story whole cloth? I bet that would be convincing.
  2. bent branch

    What is the Illyrio Barristan connection?

    As I stated in my response to Lord Varys, Cersei was the target of manipulation in this instance. Selmy is simply not that big of player. No, he wasn't. He was simply placed with Aegon's group with no explanation of who they were or what their purpose was, beyond the fact they were heading to Dany, where Tyrion would be her dragon expert. After Tyrion came to suspect what was going on he got Haldon to tell him by winning a game of cyvasse. If Tyrion hadn't figured it out they had no intention of telling him until they just couldn't avoid it any longer.
  3. bent branch

    What is the Illyrio Barristan connection?

    You are missing the forest for the trees here. Cersei was the one being manipulated by Varys. Tywin explains that Selmy gives legitimacy to anyone he chooses to join and Varys talks Cersei into letting Selmy go. Varys has dealt a blow to the Lannisters with this act no matter what Selmy ultimately does. So, Varys' target with Selmy's dismissal was the Lannisters, not Selmy. The problem here is that Selmy is not looking to get involved in shenanigans. Selmy had decided that his mistake was in not remaining true to the kingly family he had made his vow to. From this he decided to go look for his true king, who he believed to be Viserys. After learning that Viserys was dead he decided to go have a look at Dany. This was not something either Varys or Illyrio had to manipulate Selmy into doing and it helped them out. So, Selmy going to Dany wasn't a problem at all for Varys or Illyrio. Additionally, since it was always the plan to bring Aegon and Dany's parties together, it wasn't like Selmy going to Dany first was really any problem. Aegon going to Westeros without Dany (or Selmy) wasn't what they had planned. Reasons to not tell Selmy about Aegon at that point: 1) They would have been revealing the existence of Aegon to someone who they couldn't be of their reaction. Even Tyrion ended up in a position to out Aegon if he had wanted to. 2) Selmy could have decided to pull out of choosing to go to either Targaryen if he felt he was being manipulated. I had more reasons but forgot them as I was typing. Anyway, I don't see how sending Selmy to Aegon would have been of any benefit in light of their stated plans. ETA: Reason 3): At the time Selmy goes to Illyrio he is unaware of the connection between Illyrio and Varys. To send Selmy to Aegon is to reveal that connection. And Selmy really doesn't trust Varys.
  4. bent branch

    What is the Illyrio Barristan connection?

    Except we are privy to Barristan's thoughts so we know he wasn't manipulated. Aegon is the dead son of Rhaegar. Barristan would need a good explanation as to how Aegon supposedly survived. Tyrion wasn't given any explanation. Barristan was useful to Varys and Illyrio by simply allowing him to chart his own path. Why try to manipulate him in any other way? Also, what many don't seem to realize is that Belwas sent with Barristan to protect Dany from Barristan if need be.
  5. bent branch

    What is the Illyrio Barristan connection?

    I can't believe people arguing that Barristan is such a complete and utter moron that his 60+ year old self can't find his way to Pentos. Geesh! Barry made his way to Illyrio on his own. If he was manipulated at all it was so subtle that Barry has absolutely no awareness of it. Therefore, we can assume that manipulation has nothing to do with Barry deciding to go to Pentos. Also, Illyrio couldn't send Barry to Aegon. Barry was looking for the legitimate ruler. That would be Dany since Viserys was dead. Barry would need a much better answer than Tyrion was given to get him to join that group.
  6. bent branch

    Who is the 3EC?

    I am going Bloodraven, but with deep reservations. GRRM is very good at giving his creations "voices" and the 3EC just sounds like a different person than the tree (who is undoubtedly Bloodraven), in my opinion. We know for a fact that Bloodraven isn't the only character in the story communicating with people in their dreams or even when awake (i.e. Quaithe). There is still the voice that Varys heard from the fire and I don't think that voice was either Bloodraven or Quaithe. I know there are a lot of people who think that whole story is a lie, but I am sure it is real and will factor into the story. There is an alternative character who I think might be the 3EC, but I haven't done a reread of the complete series in a number of years. I'm thinking of doing just that and seeing if that character feels right. However, I don't think it is outside the realm of possibility that Bran was being contacted by two different characters. Also, the idea that it would need a whole lot of extra story to introduce someone else as the 3EC doesn't make sense in that all it takes at this point to reveal the 3EC is to have someone show up and say, "I'm the 3EC".
  7. bent branch

    What is the Illyrio Barristan connection?

    Honestly, I wouldn't count Jorah since his time at Illyrio's manse was minimal, if any at all. It is somewhat interesting that Dany doesn't recognize him. However, Dany doesn't really seem to notice any servants unless she interacts with them directly. Either way, I think it is safe to assume that Belwas was a trusted, long-term servant of Illyrio. I can't imagine he would send someone he didn't trust completely to guard "the Mother of Dragons".
  8. bent branch

    What is the Illyrio Barristan connection?

    Why so pedantic? Basically you've admitted Belwas worked for Illyrio at that time and was in a position to know Illyrio cried at Viserys' death. The main point is that GRRM wanted readers to know that Viserys' death sadden Illyrio in some way and he wanted the readers to ask why.
  9. bent branch

    What is the Illyrio Barristan connection?

    From ASOS, Daenerys I: Before being sent to Daenerys, Strong Belwas was Illyrio's personal body guard (like Areo Hotah). Even Mormont does not doubt Belwas' reporting of the events, he just questions what they mean. I think, therefore, the reader can take it a true that Belwas was with Illyrio when he got the news and that he cried upon hearing it.
  10. bent branch

    What is the Illyrio Barristan connection?

    Agree with all except the bolded. Barry acting as Belwas' squire was at Barry's request as he wanted to take a good look at Dany before commiting to her. In general, I would say it is a mistake to think that Barry is acting as anyone's agent. He is just not in that place at this point in his life.
  11. bent branch

    Poll: Is Daario actually Euron?

    No.
  12. bent branch

    Poll: Did Jojen Die Off-Page in DANCE?

    GRRM tells us that Jojen spends time staring out of the cave, implying Jojen wants to be elsewhere. I personally think Jojen and Meera are missing because they are seriously exploring how far the underground river goes. If they are ever going to leave the cave that is the only way.
  13. bent branch

    Who were the Tyrells involved in the Purple Wedding?

    My answer is, no Tyrells were involved in the purple wedding.
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