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Crona

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  1. Crona

    Marriage Roulette, Part 1

    Did Tywin know that Aerys was looking for a Valyrian bride for Rhaegar when Oberyn and Elia came to CR? If he did, I would have bethroned Jaime and Elia
  2. Crona

    What do we really know about Ashara Dayne?

    There’s really no information to give concrete answers. I used to think the Daynes were red herrings but now I think they might have a role in the upcoming books and I have no idea what it is. Also, has anyone thought maybe she killed herself because she knew of a secret? was she crazy? were Elia and Ashara secret lovers?
  3. Crona

    Things you found oddly amusing

    Oh I don’t doubt Doran’s meaning. It’s just that when I read it, the sentence sounded so outlandish. Kind of like the most interesting man in the world commercials. But I quite enjoy the character. another part I found amusing but I don’t remember the direct quote but after blackwater they are giving pardons and some of Stannis’s troops start yelling bastard or something in front of Joffrey. I just could imagine Joffrey’s face
  4. Crona

    Mance Rayder violated guest rights!

    Actually I don’t remember Jon sending him out, I think it was Mel and he was Mel’s prisoner. Jon had thought Arya was by Long Lake and not Winterfell. Besides, Jeyne was a willing person to leave, so you can’t kidnap someone that wants to go. My memory is a bit fuzzy on this though. And I don’t believe Mel nor Jon told him to go kill people in Winterfell, that was Mance
  5. Crona

    Things you found oddly amusing

    And those swords that he always rubs...just makes me feel gross lol I have always wondered, did GRRM intentionally make him look like this so it could be ridiculous?
  6. Crona

    Failure Analysis: Ned and Robb

    Ned should not have confronted Cersei about her bastards. I mean if she’s willing to commit treason by having them then what made him think she was just going to walk away..
  7. Crona

    Things you found oddly amusing

    There is a lot, one of the most recent would be Darkstar and everything about him just seems really cheesy. Especially when Doran calls Darkstar the most dangerous man in Dorne, just sounded really comic book villainish to me whenever Daario talks about his fights and Dany is interested but Barristan saying “how gallant” Stannis and his army bickering back and forth with penrose regarding storm’s end also when Sam comes to Oldtown and he tells Lazy Leo about all of his accomplishments and Lazy Leo just busts out laughing and he just walks past him...like a boss lol
  8. Crona

    Identity of Quaithe

    I’m of an opinion that Quaithe is just giving prophecies to Dany to make her isolated and see enemies where there aren’t any. And really just making it into a self fulfilled prophecies like Cersei. Don’t think she is a particular person, if I had to guess it would Sheira but she won’t reveal herself or anything
  9. Crona

    Hood’s Crackpot

    Let me first say that re-reads of this series are amazing, and these are just connections that are found interesting. In this jumble of ideas, I present some thoughts that I believe Lemore is Wenda the White Fawn, how the Daynes fit into the bigger picture, the different brotherhoods symbolism, and a different take on Aegon’s origins GRRM has said that we would know more about Arthur Dayne in the upcoming books. “Arthur Dayne has been presented as the quintessential chivalrous knight. How could he support the atrocities of Aerys, that even Jaime was horrified by? Well... keep reading”. — SSM 7/28/2012 This could mean several things, but one I want to focus on is the Kingswood brotherhood is one of the best told moments in books, and has been repeatedly mentioned in the books. The kingswood brotherhood became a problem and they had also attacked Elia’s entourage (the Prince’s wife) and the under the King’s orders members of the Kingsguard was dispatched to deal with them We also see an inverse the Brotherhood without Banners as Beric Dondarrion was dispatched by the King’s order, to defeat pillagers in the Riverlands. (While the prince’s soon to be wife would be held hostage in KL - Sansa) Beric Dondarrion is a stand in for Arthur Dayne, as they are both at the king’s demand: - Both win the support of the people - However the difference is that Gregor’s people puts fear into people whereas the people were helping the Kingswood Brotherhood and Arthur had to gain their trust - In this scenario the Kingswood brotherhood and the brotherhood without banners are similar as they both are sheltered by the people - And Beric Dondarrion becomes the leader symbolically representing Arthur Dayne as the leader of the kingswood brotherhood (Not that he actually was) The brotherhood without banners currently is partially lead by Stoneheart (undead women bent on revenge against the Frey’s and Lannisters) and the brotherhood is trying to get her daughters back. Symbolically representation of Arthur dying, and I believe Wenda taking the mantle and bringing his son (Aegon, I will get to this) back to Westeros and gaining revenge for his murdered daughter and lover (I will get to this too) Quote: Arya “How many times?” Lord Beric insisted. “Six,” Thoros said reluctantly. “And each time is harder. You have grown reckless, my lord. Is death so very sweet?” “Sweet? No, my friend. Not sweet.” “Then do not court it so. Lord Tywin leads from the rear. Lord Stannis as well. You would be wise to do the same. A seventh death might mean the end of both of us.” Beric Dondarrion’s 7th resurrection was probably given to Stoneheart, and Lemore is posing as a Septa (Faith of the Seven) It is significant to also note that the Brotherhood both involve Daynes and this time a Dayne is part of the brotherhood whereas a Dayne had originally put down the kingswood brotherhood Kingswood brotherhood members: Simone Toyne (Dead) Smiling Knight (Dead) Big Belly Ben (No sign of him, but Tom sings about him) Oswyn Longneck the Thrice-Hanged (Nothing to show he’s alive but the name is intriguing) Fletcher Dick (Nothing to show he’s alive, but he was good with a bow) Ulmer (At Castle Black) Wenda the white fawn (Unknown where she went) Interestingly enough, one is with Jon (possible hidden Rhaegar’s son) and one possibly with Aegon (a boy claiming to be Rhaegar’s son) I believe that Arthur sent out the sentencing like Jaime is able to sentence people to Castle Black in the Riverlands. Even services were offered such as with Brienne. Quote: Jaime “Since that day Brienne had been like one half-dead. Even calling her "wench" failed to provoke any response. The strength is gone from her. The woman had dropped a rock on Robin Ryger, battled a bear with a tourney sword, bitten off Vargo Hoat's ear, and fought Jaime to exhaustion . . . but she was broken now, done. "I'll speak to my father about returning you to Tarth, if it please you," he told her. "Or if you would rather stay, I could perchance find some place for you at court." "As a lady companion to the queen?" she said dully.” We know that Lemore has stretch marks indicating she was pregnant, if Wenda was pregnant could she have been a wet nurse for Elia, because she was sickly and her body build was small. They Kingswood Brotherhood was around 281, same time that Elia was pregnant. Was she sent to court to be maid in service to Elia? And also known as the White Fawn would coincide her white septa robes and also depicts her allegiance to Arthur - KG. Wenda was described as young and fair – Lemore is described as handsome, however she has aged and maybe the fairness turned to being handsome. But why would Arthur trust Wenda, this is all speculation that I hope the books would tell. But if we look back at characters with unlikely companionship during their journeys it does make sense. Jaime was also involved with the Kingswood Brotherhood and received knighthood during this time. And is a POV that speaks about them. - He was the captive of Brienne (paragon of honor but not a knight, very similar to what Arthur is described as) and Jaime as a KG has questionable honor (similar to Wenda the White Fawn, being an outlaw, its flipped) - However Brienne and Jaime grew to have a deep friendship and Jaime tells the truth about Aerys (Something he never told anyone) And being in the Riverlands is a long and dangerous trip (you get to see with Jaime and Arya) they may have gained a friendship and he decided to put Wenda in service as a maid for Elia by either friendship or pity because she is pregnant. I believe it was Wenda that smuggled out Aegon: - Varys would need a wetnurse for Aegon (Lemore stretch marks indicate pregnancy and what if she had switched her child with Aegon and that’s why there wasn’t one for Rhaenys) - This parallels with the Brotherhood without Banners trying to get Arya and Sansa - It also parallels Osha (a wildling who was put in service with the Starks) taking a dead prince (Rickon) and smuggling him to Skaagos. - Also if she had been in service to Elia, most likely Elia would trust her and would to take a liking to Wenda’s son - Like Jaime had done with Varys during Tyrion’s escape, she may have threatened Varys the same way Now I’ve always wondered how did Varys track down Jon Connington to the Golden Company: - Wenda may have connections to the Golden Company - Simone Toyne died, but Myles Toyne was in the Golden Company and was in the Company long enough that Jon Connington knew him Also look at Tyrion’s description of Lemore’s motive: Lemore had changed out of her septa's robes into garb more befitting the wife or daughter of a prosperous merchant. Tyrion watched her closely...Who is she, really? Why is she here? Not for gold, I'd judge. What is this prince to her? Was she ever a true septa? -- More of Tyrion's thoughts, which I put great stock in. He believes she isn't there for money, but that the prince means something to her. Also wonders if she was ever a septa. - Tyrion She is doing this for some nefarious reason, maybe a promise? Similar to how Lyanna made Ned make a promise to keep Jon safe? Now why do I think Aegon is a Dayne bastard? Well throughout the books we have been given that the Knights are paragons of virtues however there also accounts of knights are grey and in fact they are very human! Examples What is the purpose of the Soiled Knight? For all intents and purposes Arys was a good knight, in fact his sigil is the representation of a chivalrous knight. (Similar to what Arthur Dayne is regarded as) <b>John the Oak</b>, the First Knight, who brought chivalry to Westeros (a huge man, all agree, eight feet tall in some tales, ten or twelve feet tall in others, sired by Garth Greenhand on a giantess). His own descendants became the Oakhearts of Old Oak - World of Ice and FIre However he was able to soil his virtue and was shocked that Lewyn had a paramour, and that fellow kingsguard had been with women too. Interestingly enough Arianne brings up the most chivalrous knight (Aemon) and indicate that he did have relations with Naerys however Arys objects to it. TWOW spoilers: Arthur Dayne is always characterized with a sad smile And these were no shadows; their faces burned clear, even now. Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning, had a sad smile on his lips. - Eddard "We all swore oaths," said Ser Arthur Dayne, so sadly. - Jaime We don’t get a physical description just that he’s sad, could it be that he was because he was breaking his oath? Then there is this quote by Doran He shook his head. "Would that we had. You were a fool to make him part of this. Darkstar is the most dangerous man in Dorne. You and he have done us all great harm."- Arianne Despite laughing at this quote, it may indicate a few things, one of which I think is quite damaging for the Martells. The whole reason for Doran targeting the Lannisters is that they killed Elia and her children, if it turns out that the children are bastards then the sympathy might be gone (Not that murdering children is ever right) Also the Daynes have been quiet for some time after the rebellion and this is because they were part of the Targaryen supporters but could it also be because of treason? Also Doran sending Arianne to Aegon for the truth. But what is the truth, how would she know that? if they actually tell her that he is a Dayne then Doran would know it is Elia’s son. Elia also has a quote “My little birds tell me that Princess Elia cried a… certain name… when they came for her.” - Tyrion Tyrion thinks its Gregor but most likely its not because it would be obvious to the reader. The quote is structured as a mystery, Varys doesn’t correct Tyrion but he doesn’t acknowledge that he is wrong either. And Elia’s death by Gregor is not a mystery to the reader, so why didn’t GRRM put in the actual words? There is also the parallel that Rhaegar said Lyanna when he died too. Lord Varys: Power resides where men believe it resides. It's a trick. A shadow on the wall. And a very small man can cast a very large shadow. - Tyrion If it walks like duck, talks like a ducks, it’s a duck right? Not to mention his own kingsguard member is named Duck.. Now lets look at Rheagar - He was an intellectual and seen as the best choice for king - But how did an intellectual dissolve into making such a error in underestimating what would happen by running off with Lyanna - He did have Rhaenys however she came out as Dornish - We don’t know what happened after Rhaenys but there may have been mistrust between him and Elia - During Harrenhall, Elia was pregnant so there is no indication that she couldn’t have another child - Yet he still crowns Lyanna to the shock of others, we don’t get Elia’s reaction perhaps this was just to get a rise out of her to spite her, because again Elia was pregnant, no indication that she couldn’t have a third and there was no political points for it in fact he probably lost some. - Comparison could be with Loras and Sansa, she had feelings for him but he had done it for show - Elia gives birth and Aegon looks targaryen, Rhaegar and his suspicions are satisfied - However Ashara also gets booted from KL. Could it be that she was discovered to be hiding Arthur’s and Elia’s relationship - If he knew Arthur was the father, he did indicate to Jaime that things will change - We know he was fond of Elia and Arthur was his best friend, and while he was fond of her, they didn’t love each other. - Promising that he will allow Elia to live, so Arthur agrees to go along with him to Lyanna which is his true purpose for going Also what is the point of the Daynes are they just red herrings? We have quotes of them looking like Targaryens but they are not Targaryens Dany and Barristan Even after all these years, Ser Barristan could still recall Ashara's smile, the sound of her laughter. He had only to close his eyes to see her, with her long dark hair tumbling about her shoulders and those haunting purple eyes. Daenerys has the same eyes. Sometimes when the queen looked at him, he felt as if he were looking at Ashara's daughter … - Barristan Dany isn’t a Dayne, what is the purpose of this description? To show that Daynes can look like Targaryen. It’s also a nice parallel that Barristan liken Dany to be Ashara’s daughter, and it may play into why he is so loyal to her. And Jon Connington is loyal to Aegon because he believes he is Rhaegar’s son (whom he loved) "Your father's lands are beautiful," he said. His silvery hair was blowing in the wind, and his eyes were a deep purple, darker than this boy's. "As do I, Your Grace. Please, be seated. Ser Rolly, we'll have no further need of you for now." - Jon Connington Gerold Dayne Arianne watched him warily. He is highborn enough to make a worthy consort, she thought. Father would question my good sense, but our children would be as beautiful as dragonlords. If there was a handsomer man in Dorne, she did not know him. Ser Gerold Dayne had an aquiline nose, high cheekbones, a strong jaw. He kept his face clean-shaven, but his thick hair fell to his collar like a silver glacier, divided by a streak of midnight black. He has a cruel mouth, though, and a crueler tongue. His eyes seemed black as he sat outlined against the dying sun, sharpening his steel, but she had looked at them from a closer vantage and she knew that they were purple. Dark purple. Dark and angry. - Arianne He is a Dayne, so what is the purpose of this description, other than to tell us that Daynes look like Targaryens. Every claimant to the throne has something to do with Dragons/Red God: Dany – Dragons Stannis – Red god Euron – Dragon horn and ambitions for dragons Aegon – he only has the name, but if he is a Dayne he has connections to Dawn (which I believe is the original Lightbringer) and the Brotherhood without Banners (Red God) Another indication that Aegon is Elia’s son, Aegon is found on the Mother Rhoyne His mother Elia, is of Rhoynish descent Not only that but the Old Man of the River visits the shy maid and the ride is mostly peaceful Duck was hooting, and Young Griff too. Haldon came out on deck to learn the cause of the commotion … but too late. The giant turtle had vanished below the water once again. "What was the cause of all that noise?" the Halfmaester asked. "A turtle," said Tyrion. "A turtle bigger than this boat." "It was him," cried Yandry. "The Old Man of the River."- Tyrion However once Tyrion talks about Aegon being a targaryen, they get attacked, in fact the river almost goes back in time to do this. No one said a word. The Shy Maid moved with the current. Her sail had not been raised since she first entered the Sorrows. She had no way to move but with the river. Duck stood squinting, clutching his pole with both hands. After a time even Yandry stopped pushing. Every eye was on the distant light. As they grew closer, it turned into two lights. Then three. "The Bridge of Dream," said Tyrion. "Inconceivable," said Haldon Halfmaester. "We've left the bridge behind. Rivers only run one way." - Tyrion This could possible be due to the Rhoyne hatred of the Valyria and the love that they sensed from Aegon’s bloodline but once it was heard that he was of Targaryen descent the river changed. So that’s my jumble of thoughts, any thoughts?
  10. Crona

    Quick question for R+L=J believers.

    I took that passage to mean that Ashara had something to do with Jon. Not necessarily meaning she is his mother. But, yes she does connect in some way to Jon. Otherwise, why not just say that she is not the mother of him. And he also followed up with knowing where she got Ashara’s name and nobody gossiped about Ashara afterwards.
  11. Crona

    Unpopular Opinions?

    You agree even on Cannibal coming back? I would love it xD Arya coming back to westeros is just a hunch, but I think her dire wolf being also named Nymeria, she leads the pack and also Varys’s quote to Kevan makes me think she will be in a leadership position in the North. I agree that she might not be Lady of Wintefell, but she will be a leader of some sort
  12. Crona

    Unpopular Opinions?

    Jon warged into ghost and will live his life as ghost Gerold Dayne has damaging information on Elia There will be Krakens Cannibal is the dragon that will awake from stone Arya will be Lady of Winterfell Aegon is neither a targ or a blackfyre Arianne is one of the best characters
  13. Pretty sure Aerys is Rhaegar’s father. Don’t see a reason why they would reveal that Rhaegar is not his. Only thing I could see is that it rules out Jon from being Azor Ahai
  14. Crona

    Why do book readers hate R+L=J?

    I don’t have a problem with R+L=J, in fact I think its the most plausible theory about Jon’s parentage However, I do think a lot of the story gets streamlined with R+L=J, sometimes other parts of Robert’s Rebellion that are mysterious get lumped in as red herrings or simply seen as not important at all to the current story. But, those mysteries were placed in the story for a purpose and there could have been a lot more happening than just Jon being born. I think that’s my gripe with R+L=J, its not that I hate it, just pushes all other factors that were happening at that time out of the way.
  15. Crona

    Are the Rhoynar supposed to be Carthage?

    Not a big history fan, but maybe they are similar to Moors? I found this about Dorne and the Rhoynish influence from a so spake GRRM...
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