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Crona

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  1. Well, I haven’t quite figured out the situation yet. They did express that they believe Tatters would hurt them but I am not sure why they would think that. If they had betrayed the Windblown then I can see why they are hesitant to meet the Windblown. However, why didn’t they tell Barristan? Well it’s a secret that needs to be hidden from him too..
  2. This is the section: I want you to deliver a message to the Tattered Prince. Tell him that I sent you, that I speak with the queen's voice. Tell him that we'll pay his price if he delivers us our hostages, unharmed and whole." Ser Archibald grimaced. "Rags and Tatters is more like to give the two of us to Pretty Meris. He won't do it." "Why not? The task is simple enough." Compared to stealing dragons. "I once brought the queen's father out of Duskendale." "That was Westeros," said Gerris Drinkwater. "This is Meereen." "Arch cannot even hold a sword with those hands." "He ought not need to. You will have the sellswords with you, unless I mistake my man." Gerris Drinkwater pushed back his mop of sun-streaked hair. "Might we have some time to discuss this amongst ourselves?" "No," said Selmy. "I'll do it," offered Ser Archibald, "just so long as there's no bloody boats involved. Drink will do it too." He grinned. "He don't know it yet, but he will." Where in this section do you see Gerris blaming Dany for not wanting to go to Tatters? Barristan tells them they can go home unharmed if they told Tatters that Dany will take Pentos (he wanted that in the first place and Dany refused). He would likely agree, however Drink and Arch are hesitant and come up with various excuses to not go. They had just tried to steal dragons, why would they be scared of Tatters when they are giving him exactly what he wants? It could be they just don’t trust Tatters or something else.
  3. Honestly, I think GRRM just doesn’t know if he wants him alive or dead. There is one thing I want to point out: In the Dragontamer chapter, Quentyn, Gerris, and Arch all wear brass masks "I'll be the bull," Arch announced. Quentyn handed him the bull mask. "The lion for me." "Which makes a monkey out of me." Gerris pressed the ape mask to his face. "How do they breathe in these things?" "Just put it on." The prince was in no mood for japes. Quentyn wears the mask while going into the dragon pit and doesn't take off the mask. This scene with the brass mask in the dragonpit is also in the 2021 a song of ice and fire calendar (just Google it) Here is a description of what happens to someone who has the mask on while being burned: The crossbowman was fumbling for another quarrel as the dragon's teeth closed around his neck. The man wore the mask of a Brazen Beast, the fearsome likeness of a tiger. As he dropped his weapon to try and pry apart Viserion's jaws, flame gouted from the tiger's mouth. The man's eyes burst with soft popping sounds, and the brass around them began to run. The dragon tore off a hunk of flesh, most of the sellsword's neck, then gulped it down as the burning corpse collapsed to the floor. So the brass melts Here is the body Barristan sees: How can you tell? He has no lips. It would have been kinder if the dragons had devoured him. That at least would have been quick. This … Fire is a hideous way to die. Small wonder half the hells are made of flame. "Cover him." the old knight peeled back the coverlet for one last look at Quentyn Martell's face, or what remained of it. So much of the prince's flesh had sloughed away that he could see the skull beneath. His eyes were pools of pus. No mention of melted brass here is the section they found his body: Neither of the Dornishmen had offered any resistance. Archibald Yronwood had been cradling his prince's scorched and smoking body when the Brazen Beasts had found him, as his burned hands could testify. He had used them to beat out the flames that had engulfed Quentyn Martell. Gerris Drinkwater was standing over them with sword in hand, but he had dropped the blade the moment the locusts had appeared. "They share a cell. At his command, Quentyn Martell had been laid out in the queen's own bed. He had been a knight, and a prince of Dorne besides. It seemed only kind to let him die in the bed he had crossed half a world to reach. The bedding was ruined—sheets, covers, pillows, mattress, all reeked of blood and smoke, but Ser Barristan thought Daenerys would forgive him. Missandei sat at the bedside. She had been with the prince night and day, tending to such needs as he could express, giving him water and milk of the poppy when he was strong enough to drink, listening to the few tortured words he gasped out from time to time, reading to him when he fell quiet, sleeping in her chair beside him. Ser Barristan had asked some of the queen's cupbearers to help, but the sight of the burned man was too much for even the boldest of them. And the Blue Graces had never come, though he'd sent for them four times. Perhaps the last of them had been carried off by the pale mare by now No mention of any mask or melted brass So what happened to Quentyn's mask? I think GRRM wants to keep the possibility Quentyn alive open so he can use him if he needs it.
  4. We are just going to have to disagree here, I have just a different interpretation of things. I think George had put that line with Tristan Rivers there for the readers to understand Illyrio's movements (and his own). Maybe in AGOT, he did not have all of the plans fleshed out, but by ADWD he definitely wanted us to think this was Illyrio's and Drogo's deal. In AGOT, maybe he was toying with a different idea for Drogo but by ADWD, it appears (to me) the deal between them was 50k dothraki. Your interpretation is that Illyrio lied to the Golden Company and had given Dany (and 3 dragons eggs) for 10k dothraki. If the deal was to give Viserys 10k dothraki, why didn't he give it to Viserys? And when the Golden Company realize this, they would just have to deal with it. This is also for a war that he wants to crown Aegon/Viserys.
  5. I remember now, that makes sense! Illyrio gets a lot of flack but its pretty hard to guess what people do next.
  6. Well then why was the Golden Company expecting 50k dothraki? Was Illyrio planning on the Golden Company to not notice they were short a significant amount of dothraki (Strickland does not seem to be the type to agree on less). There was a deal struck between Drogo and Illyrio. For Drogo, he got an Valyrian wife for his prophecy and for Illyrio, he was promised an army. It could be that Drogo was not intending on fullfilling his end of the bargain, however that was changed when they sent the poisoner. That's the whole issue. Illyrio makes these deals but he underestimates them at every turn. He believes Viserys would agree to allow Aegon to be king because he views Viserys as pathetic and would jump at the chance to go home again. Not knowing how truly mad Viserys was. He did not think Dany would be important, but she ends up hatching dragons. Illyio learns of this, he sends ships to her and bring her back to Pentos. But instead she goes to Slaver's Bay. Now, for some reason he thought Dany would be in Volantis, but she is not. Only Aegon shows up.
  7. I think we are talking about two different things, I am talking about control of the Dothraki. Viserys did not have power over the Dothraki. We do know part of the deal was that Drogo was going to give Illyrio 50k Dothraki screamers, but he only had about 40k or so (it was definitely lower than 50k), he was probably planning to get more dothraki. Which Illyrio in turn was planning to give to Viserys to take command of. So it doesn't necessarily mean Drogo was going to cross the Narrow Sea. When Dany was almost poisoned and Drogo decided to go to the Narrow Sea, this effectively made Viserys useless (although he was dead already). I think you are putting too much importance on Viserys and Dany (Dany did not have any dragons at this point). At the end of the day, Illyrio could simply tell them either they can join them or get lost in Essos and Viserys and Dany would have nothing. If Viserys was really important then Illyrio would have been more adamant for Viserys to stay with him after the marriage. Illyrio did have plans, he said that his plan took years that Viserys messed up. Although, he had a difficult guessing what they would do next. I mean how is he supposed to know that Viserys would be stupid enough to threaten Dany in front of Drogo.
  8. I do not recall this. From the reading, he does not have any "seniority" over Dany or really anyone in the Dothraki. Remember when he tried to attack Dany, one of the Dothraki had grabbed him and asked if Dany wanted to kill him. They had him sit with the old women and men etc...He only sat sometimes in a seat of honor just because he was Dany's brother. Drogo made the deal with Illyrio. That is why he gave Illyrio presents and was following the orders of Illyrio...when he married Dany, Viserys was supposed to stay with Illryio till Drogo and Dany come back from Vaes Dothrak. At the time, Illryio wanted to delay.. He doesn't necessarily need Viserys, he does have Jon Connington the former hand that confirms who he is. He would also have Dany (she is already married to Drogo and I doubt Viserys would be able to take her from Drogo).
  9. That's what I got from the text too: Which plan? The fat man’s plan? The one that changes every time the moon turns? First Viserys Targaryen was to join us with fifty thousand Dothraki screamers at his back. Then the Beggar King was dead, and it was to be the sister, a pliable young child queen who was on her way to Pentos with three new-hatched dragons. Instead the girl turns up on Slaver's Bay and leaves a string of burning cities in her wake, and the fat man decides we should meet her by Volantis. Now that plan is in ruins as well. I have had enough of Illyrio’s plans. Robert Baratheon won the Iron Throne without the benefit of dragons. We can do the same. Viserys has no allies, not even the Dothraki were his after the wedding. They do not need an elaborate plot to get rid of Viserys, either he agrees to go to Westeros under the Targaryen banner or he stays in Essos as the Beggar King.
  10. I do have an alternate suggestion, that this means Dorne, Illyrio, Braavos and Tyrosh are in an alliance against the Iron Throne. This means Varys was actually working for Dorne in KL.
  11. I just remember before the show ended, a lot of posters believed the ENTIRE story was about either Jon or Dany and suggesting different was heavily criticized. Dorne, Aegon, Bran, and Ironborn being downplayed. When the finale came out, (and it was George's idea), a lot of this died down lol.
  12. After thinking this over, I think the lemon tree significance means there was a conspiracy between Dorne, Braavos and Tyrosh. Dany unrolled the parchment and examined it again. Braavos. This was done in Braavos, while we were living in the house with the red door. Why did that make her feel so strange? When presented with the pact, she says the pact was made when they were both at the house with the red door. Dany and Vis left the house with the red door when she was 5. Doran wrote the letter to Quentyn that he will rule Dorne when Arianne was 14 years old (Viserys is the same age, and Dany would have been 6 when this letter was written, which was after they had been kicked out of the house with the red door). After they left the house with the red door they went to: They had wandered since then, from Braavos to Myr, from Myr to Tyrosh, and on to Qohor and Volantis and Lys, never staying long in any one place. Her brother would not allow it. The Usurper's hired knives were close behind them, he insisted, though Dany had never seen one. At first the magisters and archons and merchant princes were pleased to welcome the last Targaryens to their homes and tables, but as the years passed Doran wanted to send Arianne to Tyrosh to meet Viserys in secret, this didn't go through but there was a green haired girl in the water gardens (did someone else go instead?): "That green-haired girl was the Archon's daughter. I was to have sent you to Tyrosh in her place. You would have served the Archon as a cupbearer and met with your betrothed in secret, but your mother threatened to harm herself if I stole another of her children, and I . . . I could not do that to her." The brother of the Archon did attend Dany's wedding Illyrio whispered to them. "Those three are Drogo's bloodriders, there," he said. "By the pillar is Khal Moro, with his son Rhogoro. The man with the green beard is brother to the Archon of Tyrosh, and the man behind him is Ser Jorah Mormont." What did Doran give or promise to Braavos and Tyrosh?
  13. I never looked into the Lemongate stuff, so I have no skin it. But in regards to Dany living with Sealord of Braavos, what would be the point of hiding it? The quote posted by @Frey family reunion, when was that quote made? Q: Dany remembers a lemon tree outside the house with the red door in Braavos, but citrus trees shouldn’t really grow in Braavos’ cold, foggy climate. Is this discrepancy significant? Does it point to future revelations about Dany’s past? Thank you so much. GRRM: Very perceptive of you. Yes, it does point to … well, that would be telling. Was that before ADWD? If so, then he’s probably hiding Arianne and Viserys marriage pact. If that quote is after ADWD then I have no idea why he would hide that. I mean he could also just say those climate limitations are not found in the Sealord of Braavos estate.
  14. 100% agree this story is a game between the author and reader. Btw very good eye! It didn’t occur to me that Lady Stoneheart mirrors Lemore, but it goes well with what I think happened (Lemore’s child was killed instead of Elia’s, just my personal theory). I think this quote really goes the Stoneheart mirroring: Lemore had changed out of her septa's robes into garb more befitting the wife or daughter of a prosperous merchant. Tyrion watched her closely. He had sniffed out the truth beneath the dyed blue hair of Griff and Young Griff easily enough, and Yandry and Ysilla seemed to be no more than they claimed to be, whilst Duck was somewhat less. Lemore, though … Who is she, really? Why is she here? Not for gold, I'd judge. What is this prince to her? Was she ever a true septa? Kind of unrelated but I was also thinking of a connection between Gilly and Septa Lemore. With the crew of the Shy Maid mirroring the crew of the Cinnamon Wind (Griff being Sam, Tyrion as Daeron, Haldon as Maester Aemon, Aemon (baby) is Aegon, Ysilla, yandry, and Duck being the captain, captain’s mate and daughter).
  15. I honestly don’t know. The dance of the dragons had both sides with dragons, could this mean Aegon’s side will have a dragon? Who would ride it? Arianne or Aegon? There has to be a reason for the 3 heads of the dragon, it may have something to do with Aegon, since when he was born Rhaegar says he that needed one more. Dany even thinks there are two others out there that will ride her dragons. I know people think it’s Tyrion as the third dragon rider, but in Moqurro’s vision, he saw him snarling in between the dragons. The Toland girl saw dragon(s) dancing and people dying. Tyrion will go to the side that gives him the most power and a ruler he would be able to manipulate. He can manipulate Aegon pretty good but can he manipulate Dany? Can he manipulate Aegon with Varys, Illyrio and Jon Con present? Or is Tyrion going to play both sides (Moqurro’s vision). Who’s left in Westeros? Stannis/Roose, Euron, LF, Mace, Doran, Varys, Illyrio, and Cersei. They might instigate the entire war to get rid of both Aegon and Dany…and they will probably succeed therefore destroying the Targaryen lineage. Maybe Jon was supposed to be the Lord Commander that Dany and Aegon meet to bring them all together against the Others…but since he’s incapacitated, it won’t work. And this why we are getting THAT ending..
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