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Crona

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  1. Crona

    Kevan and Pycelle’s death

    I think it was actually very similar to the switch at the Wall. I believe the “Gilly” in this scenario would be Septa Lemore. If Septa Lemore was the wet nurse for Aegon (Elia was noted as having small breasts) then it would mean there would be another infant roughly the same age as Aegon and she does have stretch marks indicating pregnancy. I think she switched her child with Aegon, this would also explain why only one child was switched and Elia protecting the baby as the child would be familiar to her.
  2. Crona

    Kevan and Pycelle’s death

    Could you tell me what is straw man about the argument. Is not the fake Aegon Blackfyre theory means Varys/Illyrio raises a person who is really a Blackfyre as Aegon. Then ends up ruling as Aegon, not as a Blackfyre and Varys/Illyrio not telling him he’s a Blackfyre. Which begs the question of why even make Aegon fake, when if he’s real it still makes sense without making the storyline complicated. i don’t get it, are you saying he killed in this manner to mimic the kids death to throw off Cersei only? Even if he done it for this reason only, it still does not prove Aegon is fake, he could still do this even if Aegon is real. we don’t have much information from Varys time during Aerys reign. He seemed to not care for Rhaegar but we don’t know how he felt towards Elia. Perhaps, he felt that his council was rejected and lead to their horrible deaths and feels guilt. He also always talked about Rhaenys and Aegon in a sad or deep tone. Elia found Tyrion cute and was described as having sweet wit, perhaps Varys and her got along. We also don’t know Elia’s mother’s consort, who may be related. We just don’t know yet. Thats really not the argument, Aegon and Rhaenys are just two people he cares for and others not. Going by your example, Cat treating Jon bad would mean that she was a bad mother for her children or would not be able to empathize with Brienne. i don’t think the same thing applies to Varys, I think it only applies to some scenarios. Varys was able to listen to the council meeting undetected, and had kids hidden in the chambers, I am pretty sure he would know if there are others around. Also, if he wasn’t sure of the ears around him then he shouldn’t have said anything, which Varys should know.
  3. Crona

    Kevan and Pycelle’s death

    I am thinking there may be a Martell connection with Varys and Illyrio as they seem to favor Aegon and Rhaenys. The rulers in Dorne do take Essosi partners, perhaps Illyrio or Varys are related to Elia. Also, we don’t know the consort of Elia’s mother, could the consort be related to Illyrio?
  4. Crona

    Kevan and Pycelle’s death

    He could be but I really can’t tell what his background is. I think the bigger question for me is what connection does Varys and Illyrio have with Rhaenys and Aegon (both). Could it just be guilt or something more? Illyrio seems to be very knowledgeable about westeros especially during Aerys time as a foreigner. I think he may have lived in westeros during Aerys reign for a time.
  5. Crona

    Kevan and Pycelle’s death

    Not only that but his story of her hand in his home could not be true as the hand would carry greyscale. He also had offered Tyrion to visit the prince’s menagerie meaning he was not barred from the palace
  6. Crona

    Kevan and Pycelle’s death

    This is a great point, I can definitely see this happening
  7. Crona

    Kevan and Pycelle’s death

    Alright I give you two scenarios: Varys raises a fake Aegon to get power for the Blackfyres then teaches this fake Aegon that he is Aegon but really not and will not tell the Fake Aegon that he is really a Blackfyre. And these Blackfyres hate the Lannisters instead of the Martells and Targs. Then has Pycelle die of blunt force trauma and has Kevan stabbed multiple times while holding a crossbow for shits and giggles because he doesn’t care about the children. or Varys has the real Aegon, raises him, and wants him to take his rightful throne. Killed Kevan and Pycelle in this manner as revenge for Rhaenys and the pisswater prince. which one makes more sense? i don’t think it takes much for Cersei to go off and in fact she’ll probably finger Tyrion, Tyrells, and Dorne for this, even Varys says so. I don’t think he cares to control her reaction as long as it’s not rational. we don’t know what happened during the sack regarding the child’s possible swap. No point in trying to speculate, GRRM has not given this information for a reason. However we can’t deny supporting arguments for either one as either possibility could be true. I didn’t know you were allowed to only have one secret prince in a story and are we sure Jon will take the title as Prince? I am not familiar with War of the Roses but I doubt GRRM will take everything from war of the roses, I did not make an argument that Varys cared for children, I said he cared for only Rhaenys and Aegon, he is indifferent towards others. So because LF doesn’t know who’s around him to listen, this somehow applies to Varys? Why even tell Kevan about Aegon then?
  8. Crona

    Kevan and Pycelle’s death

    If he has the real Aegon within his possession then his actions here makes sense, as it give motive for Varys. You haven’t given me a motive that is different. Aegon can still be real if Varys wants him to be the perfect ruler I can’t think of any other reason why he would do this then. He has always talked about Rhaenys with sadness and his voice becomes deeper when he talks about Aegon. While you can say he may not care, I guess it’s up to interpretation what about this message would Dorne care for? How would they even have the foresight to connect this to Aegon and Rhaenys death. We don’t know what happened during the sack. I don’t see the point of over complicating the story by making him fake when he can be real with a simpler explanation.
  9. Crona

    Kevan and Pycelle’s death

    Yes, I do believe Varys had brought up Rhaenys for a reason and he does care about her. As for the weapon used to kill Pycelle, I didn’t see any mention of a different weapon and the crossbow can do the same job. I would be open to different weapons but to me it would be unnecessary. Pycelle was alive a few hours before as he attended the council meeting, it was during Cersei’s meeting Pycelle died. He couldn’t have been dead for more than a few hours. Also, Pycelle soiled himself and Varys opened the window and it’s snowing outside. I interpreted their deaths as very similar visually. I doubt Varys would drag Pycelle to a wall to bash his head. It’s sufficient enough to wack him over the head. I think going close to someone and bashing their head is more riskier than standing away and shooting a quarrel. Varys doesn’t strike me as someone who wants to be physically close to someone to kill them. I think he wanted to kill Pycelle this way because of anger and hatred. I slightly disagree, I don’t think Varys cares about other kids, he is shown mostly indifferent towards Sansa, Dany and Viserys. It is Aegon and Rhaenys that he actually takes actions for and supports.
  10. Crona

    Kevan and Pycelle’s death

    I think Rhaenys and the pisswater prince are dead. Varys wanting vengeance for their deaths would suggest Aegon is alive as he wouldn’t raise a fake Aegon if he felt a need to avenge them.
  11. Crona

    Kevan and Pycelle’s death

    What would be the point of mimicking their deaths? Everyone already thinks they are dead
  12. Crona

    Kevan and Pycelle’s death

    Thank you for commenting! Yes I do feel the chapter has a huge eerie presence of Aerys court during the time of Robert’s rebellion. Pycelle even mentions how similar Red Ronnet and Jon Con had acted during the rebellion.
  13. The epilogue chapter of ADWD has the death of Kevan and Pycelle. During this chapter, I believe we find out how Varys truly feels about the Aegon and Rhaenys deaths. @Alexis-something-Rosemay be interested in this topic, feel free to chime in. Let’s go over their manner of death. Varys deliberately picks the crossbow because he thinks it's fitting for Kevan's death: "I thought the crossbow fitting. You shared so much with Lord Tywin, why not that?" Varys had known that Pycelle was unguarded while Kevan visited Cersei, snuck in and killed Pycelle. "There are … there are hundreds of Lannister guardsmen in this castle." "But none in this room, thankfully." He wanted guards, Ser Kevan thought. I should have sent him guards. Instead of using the quarrel, he used the blunt side of the crossbow and bludgeoned Pycelle to death. Then he saw. Grand Maester Pycelle was seated at his table, his head pillowed on the great leather-bound tome before him. Sleeping, Kevan thought … until he blinked and saw the deep red gash in the old man's spotted skull and the blood pooled beneath his head, staining the pages of his book. All around his candle were bits of bone and brain, islands in a lake of melted wax. This is a violent and riskier way of killing Pycelle rather than the easier method of just shooting the crossbow. However, the visual of Pycelle's death almost matches Aegon's death: "Aegon?" For a moment he did not understand. Then he remembered. A babe swaddled in a crimson cloak, the cloth stained with his blood and brains. "Dead. He's dead." We also learn here, Kevan was present during the sack and had seen the children's bodies. Pycelle had told Aerys to open the gates for Tywin against Varys wishes which caused the children's deaths too. Varys first shoots Kevan with a quarrel, and Kevan thinks of Tywin's death. No. No, that was how my brother died. Blood was seeping out around the shaft Varys tells Kevan that he is doing this for the children: "Ser Kevan. Forgive me if you can. I bear you no ill will. This was not done from malice. It was for the realm. For the children." I have always wondered who the children were, but what if he meant Rhaenys and Aegon as "the children?" Tells Kevan that he is in service to a bad cause There are many like you, good men in service to bad causes … Kevan was present during the sack and part of the regime for his brother which caused the children's deaths. Varys goal is to remove Kevan from power: but you were threatening to undo all the queen's good work, to reconcile Highgarden and Casterly Rock, bind the Faith to your little king, unite the Seven Kingdoms under Tommen's rule. So …" Here's the last puzzling part of the chapter. Instead of shooting another quarrel into Kevan which would be similar to Tywin's death. Varys chooses to whistle and have children stab Kevan multiple times: A child emerged from a pool of darkness, a pale boy in a ragged robe, no more than nine or ten. Another rose up behind the Grand Maester's chair. The girl who had opened the door for him was there as well. They were all around him, half a dozen of them, white-faced children with dark eyes, boys and girls together. And in their hands, the daggers. What is the purpose of this? Why not shoot another quarrel? Well I think it mirrors Rhaenys death: Ser Amory was almost as bestial with Rhaenys. I asked him afterward why it had required half a hundred thrusts to kill a girl of . . . two? Three? This is why I believe Varys had killed Kevan and Pycelle in this manner. To remove Kevan from power and reflect his goal of avenging the children's deaths.
  14. Elia had just nearly died giving birth to Aegon, do you really think she’s going to think about Harrenhal even 2 months ago after she survives death? Also some parents usually don’t argue in front of their children. This was a small window in their lives but doesn’t necessarily show they were fond of each other. Besides if she was heavily pregnant during Harrenhal, I doubt they would allow for her to leave Dragonstone as it would be a risk. Most likely GRRM was not paying attention to the timeline.
  15. Crona

    What do people think about Rhaegar?

    You have no proof Elia had consented to polygamy and basing this idea that Rhaegar is not a cheater because of polygamy is a theory only.
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