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About Morte

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    Hedge Knight

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  • Location
    Sigil, the Hive Ward
  • Interests
    (in no particular order:) books, comics, CRPGs, history, archaeology ... have I mentioned books?

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  1. Unless he gives us some more (much! more) specifics as to why Viserys would have been like his father back in his youth, I don't think this is something Barristan DID even think back then; it's something he is interpreting into the past because of what he heard about Viserys. That's what I mean with "Barristan is reinterpreting". There might not even have been a tantrum over pees or one or two seizures, it's just the same thing other people are doing with Dany: Viserys=son of the mad king=mad. But I want to focus on two aspects of one of those: Your analysis of Dany's emotions here reminds me a lot of Didier Eribons feelings toward his family in "Return to Reims". And yes, it's very common: One separates themselves from their pitiful and powerless upbringing and embraces the new environment, it takes some time to realise what made ones parents (or brother, in Dany's case) the way they were, and while one still doesn't think they were (completely or even remotely) right, one learns to understand them and what has driven them.
  2. That's why I think he reinterpreted "things" he saw/remembered from the end, and he's not at all specific. Maybe Viserys was suffering from one or two seizures as a child (a friend of mine had two while he was in primary school, but never again since, he's thirty now), and now, with the knowledge of what became of him, Barristan is over-interpreting this things. Maybe he will be more specific in one of the next books, until then I stay by my opinion: Viserys was an asshole, but not mad.
  3. I know. I was thinking about reverse roles here. But to be fair: Rhaella would have a - however slightly - better chance succeeding than Jon had.
  4. Barristan(?) says the queen shielded Viserys as best as she could, so I think she would have tried to send him away for fostering soon; and yes, it would have been good for him. The Tyrells had sons around Viserys' age, so it would fit perfectly, but Dorne would also be possible. However I think it would be almost as "funny" as trying to send Sweet Robin away for fostering.
  5. I’m not sure... And actually, none of us can be sure. But from what little info we have, Aerys was much more agreeable and less nasty than Viserys when he was young. TWoIaF, Aerys II “AERYS TARGARYEN, the Second of His Name, was but eighteen years of age when he ascended the Iron Throne in 262 AC, upon the death of his father, Jaehaerys, after little more than three years of rule. A handsome youth, Aerys had fought gallantly in the Stepstones during the War of the Ninepenny Kings. Though not the most diligent of princes, nor the most intelligent, he had an undeniable charm that won him many friends. He was also vain, proud, and changeable, traits that made him easy prey for flatterers and lickspittles, but these flaws were not immediately apparent to most at the time of his ascension.” When Viserys died he was 22 yrs old or thereabouts. And from what we’ve seen, he was very much his father’s son, sharing some of Aerys’s worst traits: changeable, vain, proud. At the same time, he didn’t really show any of the more positive traits his father seems to have had as a young man. It's not about whether Viserys was a nice person (here his father might have even been better compared to him, but Aerys did not spend his life in exile), but whether Viserys is mad - and imho he isn't, he's just - pardon my French - an arsehole (at least when we meet him the first time, his character might have changed over the years on the run). Him being emotionally unstable ("changable"), vain, not the sharpest knife in the box - as @Varysblackfyre321 pointed out, these are the characteristics of many noble young men (and women), and because of this traits he would have made a mediocre king (= a king whose success would depend on his small council), but we can't be sure he would have turned mad out of the blue. But as you said: We don't know, none of us can be sure. However @Varysblackfyre321 is not wrong here either: I would add that Aerys would have broken and turned mad quite fast, had he lived Viserys' life. So while Viserys might have inherited more traits from his father than his siblings, he's still a lot more sane (grammar?) than Aerys. I also agree that Barristan is anachronistic in his analysis of Viserys: His fathers doting on him and what Viserys became (or better: what he heard about Viserys) made Barristan think he inherited his fathers madness. Yes of course. Just wanted to point out that their attitudes toward their sisters weren't so far away (plus targ-incest on Viserys' side). And nobody* was shocked about Viserys selling marring his sister off for troops, they were just shocked about selling marring her off to a "barbarian". *Okay, I think we would be able to find a handful of nobles in the books who would never do this to their daughters/sisters, but they are clearly a small minority.
  6. Dogs don't care, dragons would neither.
  7. Cheese. It's always cheese, works much better than bacon.
  8. I agree, also don't think Robb would do it. I know however, that he did not care a lot whether they were raped or killed by others as long as he could keep his precious kingdom and get his vengeance. So is Robb also "mad"? On Viserys again, because this seems to be misunderstood here: Nobody says that Viserys is a kind and good character. In the end he's an abusive and unhealthy brother, but that's not an equivalent to mad (please be so kind and stop insulting insane people). And while he would probably not have become a very nice and gentle person without the exile, one has to wonder if he would have turned out as he did, had he lived an uneventful secure life in the Red Keep. Remember: Dany also has nice memories about him, he wasn't always this way.
  9. I think he had partly inherited his father emotional instability. But I wouldn't bet on him becoming another Aerys just out of the blue, and it also needed Duskendale to make Aerys into the monster he became. However Viserys seems much more stable than his father to me, as it takes a lot to let him go over the edge: Dany remembers her brother as kind and loving for a long time, it took many years and blows to make him change, the last one was the selling of their mother's crown. And even then he is not even remotely comparable to Joff or his father. So I think @Lord Varys is right here: Had Viserys III inherited the throne, he would have been a mediocre king, maybe with family issues and quiet guidable, but not per se mad or particularly cruel.
  10. Morte

    Do You Think Sam Will Forge His Chain?

    If we don't get some Greek fire and pyr automaton, and at least two or three interesting war machines out of the Citadel, I will be seriously disappointed - it would however illustrated the name "grey sheep" quiet well. Good summery. If he hired the FM and did not pay they would be more than pissed, surely. One wonder what they would think about killing Balon with Warlock-magic? Maybe we will get some insight on all this if Winds will be released. One could imagine something like emergency-chains because of Euron's sack of the city. It would be very futile and frustrating for Sam, that's for sure. But I'm still not sure if Euron is such a important piece in the overall game, or if he is just a catalyst for other events but himself will fail and vanish quicker then we all think. In this case him trying to sack and plunder Oldtown could fail epically.
  11. Morte

    Do You Think Sam Will Forge His Chain?

    Might be. It's just that I think it would make Sam's life more miserable if Gilly would vanish with Marwyn. Her being there makes it much easier for Sam to be brave and handle situations. She is just a minor character, so her role both in Meereen or with Sam would not be a prominent one: In Meereen she would be an eye witness and, as @Three-Fingered Pete pointed out - would give informations about the group around Mother Mole, but we don't know if this informations are even needed or if Dany & Co. would not stumble across them anyway. With Sam she would continue to be the catalyst for him getting sh*t done and move his arse (pardon my French). I'm not dogmatic here, all possibilities are welcome. Well, the city will not go down without a fight, and it would be fun to see the Maesters actually being of some use in such a situation. Concerning the FM: Do we know if Euron did pay the price for his brothers demise already (if it truly were FM he hired)? Or does he have an open depth with them? They may be in Oldtown for more than one reason...
  12. Morte

    Do You Think Sam Will Forge His Chain?

    I don't know. As Sam will spent a lot of his time in the Citadel with the other novices and acolytes, Gilly would just be a little "nuisance" he has to care about, something to make him feel a little bit guilty for not spending enough time with her. I simply don't see her running around the Citadel helping Sam with books ( ). But if Sam keeps his lucky streak this could also be all he will see from obstacles for him. But of course the sack of Oldtown and maybe plundering would bring both in peril and would give us the dreaded travelogue to Horn Hill and back to the wall. So: We'll see. It's just one of many possibilities for Gilly.
  13. Morte

    Poll. Is Bran ever leaving the cave?

    Could be. we don't know enough about the first Long Night, not even WHETHER it was the first at all. If it is a cycle you are most likely right, if however the Others are coming back due to some event (like the humans unknowingly tipping an achieved balance or breaking some pact or magical seal) there are other possibilities open, but of course the price to reforge the broken whatsoever could still be Bran's (or others) life. But: I don't know if the life in the tree is not worse than death. Bloodraven doesn't sounds too happy to me: also even if the body dies the greenseers seem to live on in the trees, having to watch helplessly, not only the present, but also the past, their loved once long dead, not able to help them or be with them... And it would be interesting how they feel about the apparent lose of self in the process. I'm 100% with you on the Sam will discover something that Bran will use and their linked destinies. Maybe they will even start to move again in opposite direction at the same time? Well, Coldhands can indeed be dead since the last Long Night, it would fit the "killed long time ago" by Leaf. I don't think there was a single "Last Hero" or "AA" in the way the myths tell it, but Coldhands could be the person who was sacrificed/had to sacrifice himself at the end. It would be another possible explanation why he is still himself, and not controlled by the Others. And it would be worse than death, yes. Interesting idea, will add it to the "possible-shelf".
  14. Morte

    Do You Think Sam Will Forge His Chain?

    Just laid out the possibilities, pick one - and hopefully in the next book we will see which one GRRM did pick. Yes, although we wouldn't see anything from the journey in A, and we don't know which route they would sail from Oldtown directly to Meereen. However: If the people in this books would think their actions though, about 80% of drama would not have happened, so: Beside, there are two other things we have to consider: Maybe Marwyn would even want her to go with them to have an eye witness with him. And: would Gilly leave the Cinnamon Wind to wander Oldtown in search for Sam/let herself be dumped in an inn to wait for Sam to find her, or would she rather stay with people she knows? There are no 100% here. Have to wait and see. Yes, GRRM is not finished with Sam's education in torment yet. It all went too well for him, even on his journey back to the wall, even in Braavos, and at the Citadel.