Morte
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(in no particular order:) books, comics, CRPGs, history, archaeology ... have I mentioned books?
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Morte reacted to a post in a topic: How many ASOIAF characters are on the spectrum?
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Morte reacted to a post in a topic: How many ASOIAF characters are on the spectrum?
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Morte reacted to a post in a topic: The Winds of Winter: The Latest Info (updated 10 July 2022)
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Thank you very much for this. Her betrothal to Hizdahr is the reason she spurns Quentyn. Yes, Quentyn is a nice guy (I really like him as a character), and would be a good match for Dany, even though she doesn't knows this at that time, but he is too late - and alone. That's the reasons Dany rejects him, not Quaithe or his looks. This factors might have played a role in hypothetical scenarios in which she doesn't think her only way to keep the "peace" is to marry Hizdahr, with an army in front of her city. Had Quentyn come to a truly peaceful Meereen, or with an army to lift the siege, the situation might have been different, but he did not. Beside, even with the situation being as it is, she still shows him the dragons - so no, she might be cautious because of Quaithe's prophesy, but not paranoid or cold toward Quentyn, so she even might have married him, or at least considered his a fitting suitor, had there been the possibility.
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Because, if this is really GRRMs ending, he simply did not understand Dune. Not one little bit of it This. I still interpret the things, one could (maybe) take from the show as happening in the books as follows: - Dany being taken away by Drogon = she does indeed leave at the end, realising that Westeros isn't her home, Essos is. So after helping with the long night she and her armies go back home. - Jon going into the wild = he doesn't take any crown, because he is the Lord Commander of the Night Watch, and he has an institution to rebuild into something useful and functional, and has responsibilities toward the Wildlings as well. - Bran becomes a Greenseer, so he will most likely end up connected to the trees, but because of his position as the first Greenseer known again to the realm since a very long time, he will be spiritual guide and magical adviser, his throne will be the trees - Sansa will end up as Lady of Winterfell or Lady of the Earie, imho Who will sit the Iron Throne in the end? Well, how about Aegon? Or Shireen? Or Shireen and Aegon?
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I hope there is no 'Aegon's Prophecy' Retcon in the Books
Morte replied to Craving Peaches's topic in General (ASoIaF)
Yes, it is. It's an atrocity and - as I already said - I think it gets worse by the "Dragon's Wroth" being nothing but personal revenge, and - as @SeanF said - a real stain upon Aegon's and his sister's record. And I have to thank you for your clear and rational questioning my answers. It seems civil conversations are still possible on the internet. Completely agreeing with your interpretation of the Harrying of the North. I think Martin did not quite get it right how this would have been seen and - especially - their horror phrased by contemporary chronologists (we have the same refusal one can see from Orderic Vitalis to justify atrocities in certain chronologists of the crusades, they are rightly very harsh and direct in their phrasing), so the whole First Dornish War imho reads too harmless in F&B. And with the burning of the countryside Aegon, too, would have failed his duty as king to his subjects, which he has even toward the Dornish, even if he first has to conquer them to rule. -
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I hope there is no 'Aegon's Prophecy' Retcon in the Books
Morte replied to Craving Peaches's topic in General (ASoIaF)
Because the first sentence of your definition is the most important, as it tells the difference between genocide and any other atrocity - the intent. All of the physical elements listed are there to achieve the mental element: to destroy a group of people because of what and who they are "as such", without a way for them to convince the aggressor otherwise, without a place where the aggressor would leave them alone if getting hold of them. It's not about conquest, it's not about stupid hurt noble pride or revenge, mass murderous war tactics, scorched-earth policy, "making an example" (this sounds so harmless in English, I mean it in the sense of "pour encourager les autres"), or that else horrible ideas humanity had and has - genocide is about destroying people because they are, for no other reason. I just wanted to say that one should be cautions to use the term for every atrocity one finds especially horrible, to not water the term down until people no longer are able to see how horrible an act genocide truly is. I think it would be better to use the term mass murder with the appropriate contempt. I know it's not that's why I put 'just' in quotations. I know. Just wanted to emphasize your true statement. -
I hope there is no 'Aegon's Prophecy' Retcon in the Books
Morte replied to Craving Peaches's topic in General (ASoIaF)
That's why I said it's difficult to use it (and one maybe should not) on warfare in such a setting (mediaeval fantasy world, philosophically on the level of ... say, the Pliocean). It is a very brutal conquesting war of Dorne, that's why they are killing Dornish, but would they continue if Dorne would yield? Would Dornish be used as cattle? Forbitten higher education? Culled into special quarters? Do they start the war because the Dornish are Dornish? What would have happened, had Dorne gone the "Northern Way"? Would they still try to kill them? Would there be a war? Would there be killing/harnessing/oppression against the Dornish people? Or would it be like everywhere else? That we do have is idiotic hurt noble pride because the people were fighting back effectively and did not bent. And after the - actually very impressive - killing of Meraxes and Rhaenys, it got personal and the horrible atrocities done by Aegon and Visenya can actually be seen as petty revenge. Which - for me, personal - makes them worse than 'normal' war crimes, as their only reason is to hurt the other because someone hurt the siblings on a personal level. Unfortunately such revenge was quite common in feudal societies. No, it isn't, the definition you stated above is actually pretty clear and good, as it also covers genocide within a country/without war. And it is never "just" mass murder, "just" war crimes, "just" atrocities. It's also never "just" war. -
I hope there is no 'Aegon's Prophecy' Retcon in the Books
Morte replied to Craving Peaches's topic in General (ASoIaF)
So it does fit. Sorry, but because this is getting way too close to historical revisionism for my liking, I have to interfere. You put the emphasis on the wrong parts, the emphasis is: Without the intent to destroy a group of people as such, because they are who they are, it's not genocide, it's mass murder atrocities, war crimes, etc. I know that the phrasing became blurry in the past decades, but it is imho important to remember where the blur is originally coming from: From Alt- and Neonazis trying to frame the Shoa as "nothing special" or "not that bad", because others have killed just as many or more people. Just remember: War crimes, mass murder, atrocities don't become less horrible just because one can't mint them as genocide. Inflationary using it on mediaeval or ancient warfare (with or without dragons) takes the historical revisionism even farther than it inventors dared. There is no need to water down the therm, by doing it, one just makes genocide look less horrible than it is. So. Sorry - and thank you. -
Most Unlikely Character to Turn Villainous
Morte replied to Craving Peaches's topic in General (ASoIaF)
Has anyone already mentioned Podrick? -
I think Verhoeven wanted to show how this conflict is used by the leaders of earth in their favour. We don't know if there was an unprovoked attack, or just an accident on behalf of the bug - or even pure bad luck (an asteroid hit earth). We have an "othering" of the antagonistic party, but we essentially know nothing about the nature of the conflict. And neither we nor the protagonists are told anything - that's the one point Verhoeven wanted the viewer to realize above all, and that it doesn't need to be some evil nazi dictatorship to do such a thing. Funny thing, a lot of people did not like him using shades of grey, they wanted the film to be a blunt critique on militarism (it is a critique of that, but not blunt and simple), and were disappointed then they didn't get a simple black and white picture.
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Hm, don't know if it is that nihilistic, he does have lighter shades of grey and even truly benevolent people (some of them pitch black, morally) in his work; one could argue, that they even succeed in the end, however pricey this victory was. What indeed is very frustrating is how many of his reader misinterpreted his work toward the exact opposite of what he actually was saying. But that may be attributed also to the fact, that many people only ever read the first book (although I found him quite straightforward even in Dune. But I, too, have read him quite late in my late Twenties). On this one I have to disagree. A fascist state very well could (we are talking about fascists here, not nazis), Heinlein's certainly would, as it is liberal in this regards (see Marcuse et all.). It's like @Aldarion said: Tyranny comes in many shapes. That's why I do think Verhoeven did a very good job in his movie: They don't seem unsympathetic, because we see them from the inside, with the eyes of people who have been indoctrinated all their life and are sympathetic toward the system, we don't get a bug-POV, we have to connect the dots given to us, to see that the system really is. But he also remained true to his source in a way, as he didn't try to paint the militaristic regime Heinlein created worse than it is in the source material. What both, Herbert and Verhoeven, would imho agree upon is, that there is no easy way out, no easy judgement.
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Just because your only tool is a hammer, doesn't make every problem in the world a nail. The author has already told us, that his metatextual aim is to deconstruct the young-and-clueless-saviour-troupe in fantasy, in which the saviour is a saviour simply because they are, and everything they touch works to the benefits of everyone and nothing ever backfires or has a price. That's why both Jon and Daenerys fail initially, even though they are right in what they aim for. For all his flaws in worldbuilding and researching on historical subjects he's using, GRRM does this one really well. Beside: Can Daenerys even be "read as 'white' in our world"? She was a de facto pauper all her life - and then sold to a Dothraki khaal... Would you read Sally Hemings as "white"? No. It's - beside other things* - about the believe in a messiahs - both political and religious - and that it makes people do or not do. The subject of his novels are not the "narrative persona", but society as a whole. It's not about "the saviour" or his complexes, which - to be fair, however unsympathic, pathetic and cowardly he is - not even Paul has. Because most readers don't pay enough attention and have read the books at an age, then one likes to imagine oneself as a force that can change something for the better (with Superpowers!). One can argue, whether Herbert build this trap intentionally - I would say "yes", as he is actually very explicit about his stunt in the books following "Dune". * Like: "religions purpose is to keep people manipulatable and usable" and "kill aristocrats on sight"
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I think a competent poisoner wants to make sure that it looks like a medical issue, so using a dose, that kills the target outright, is unwise. Maybe they underestimated the freedmen medics and thought that the Green Grace would be called to "cure" the sickness, so they could administer another dose. A slow death after which her grieving husband would inherit Meereen would surely look better than her dying quickly after her wedding day.
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The Original Ending of a Dance with Dragons
Morte replied to BlackLightning's topic in The Winds of Winter
I agree that the POVs of JonCon (and Tyrion as well as Quentyn) are in line with the theme of the book, they are indeed dancing with the dragons, and Quentyn even with both human and animal, but feel incomplete because of the ending. But I especially agree with the bolded part, because every time I read Daenerys' last chapter, I get the notion that we have a time-asynchrony again, as if not as many days have passed in Daenerys' POV, as have in Meereen and Westeros, because she is still alive and strong enough to walk and stand even without clean water to drink and a serious diarrhoea, so imho she can't be out there for longer then a few days, maximum a week. If that is the case, it would have been better if this would have been solved in the same book, and I very much think that it would come naturally with the two battles and Arianne meeting Aegon included in ADwD. -
The Winds of Winter: The Latest Info (updated 10 July 2022)
Morte replied to Werthead's topic in The Winds of Winter
I think it is more or less complete, of course some locations might change and some people move somewhere else, expect maybe: You were right to hesitate, as I, too, wouldn't call it a storyline area, as it plot-important habitants are essentially all spread around the globe at this moment. And while I like the Reader a lot, I really hope no storyline splits in a way, that would make people go to the Iron Isle too soon, as this would cost us another bunch of pages we don't have. -
The Winds of Winter: The Latest Info (updated 10 July 2022)
Morte replied to Werthead's topic in The Winds of Winter
Even if Martin does somehow manage to get back to the pacing of ASOS, there are so many plots hanging in midair now, that it will at the very least take TWoW to get to a point, at which Dany can leave Essos without it feeling rushed. And all the other storylines are also in (dire) need of space to be told, as @Lord Varys pointed out, not even Aegon can be dealed with in just two JonCon and three Arianne chapters without looking like a filler. There is so much that has to happen, that we are running out of pages with just two books left. Of course, and story-wise you are right. The question is, whether GRRM is able and willing to deliver. -
The Winds of Winter: The Latest Info (updated 10 July 2022)
Morte replied to Werthead's topic in The Winds of Winter
The easiest answer would be, that he wanted to deconstruct the topos of the perfect promised prince, groomed to rule and oh so perfect. But beside that: I agree. One could even hypothesise that with the threat of the Others (solved or not) they might even end the dance the way it should have been done the last time: the hard way, by negotiations. I'm afraid we will not get another (eighth) book, or if, than just because he messed up and kept the pace of ADwD. I don't know if he can wrap things up well enough to not make it look cheap.