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About Lyanna<3Rhaegar

  • Birthday 05/18/1980

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  • Queen of the Royal Heathens
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    Tower of Joy

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  1. Do tell where in the 'duties' of the watch it's said to cause a mutiny & murder your LC.
  2. Yes, let's not let the horrible wildlings bother the lovely Ramsay. Certainly don't want them to take WF from him, that he holds illegally & by deceit, else it may cause problems in peaceful Westeros. I'm sure the rest of the NW will be so ever greatful for the heroic acts of mutiny & murder by Bowen that they will just immediately elect him LC. After he assures the rest of Westeros they will probably elect him king. Seriously, where do you come up with this stuff?
  3. I was talking about Jon trying to mend things between the NW & the wildlings & you said Jon ruined all that by announcing he wants to march on WF. If you agree the wildlings couldn't careless then why did you say that? Funny because there are quite a few law abiding people that agree with the decision. Ramsay is not law abiding, the very marriage through which he holds WF is illegal. Sure it does. It wasn't a plan Jon came up with or enacted. Why would that not matter? Mel is not a member of the NW so he is not her LC. Neither is he Mance's LC anymore as Mance is Stan & Mel's man. Lol! It was Mance & the spearwives (none of which are Jon's men) that carried out Mel's plan. Jon made no plan. Please quote the plans he made. His single effort was sending men to Moles town to get the spearwives.
  4. The wildlings could careless if he broke his vows. Marching on WF did nothing to cause discord with the wildlings. Secondly, he didn't initiate the plan to rescue fArya, it wasn't his idea, the plan he knew of was to rescue an already fled fArya not to help her escape & he wasn't there. This was Mel's plan & her doings.
  5. That isn't the same as defending themselves. It has naught to do with the internal wars of the realms. The watch takes no part does not mean the watch cannot defend themselves from domestic enemies. Nor is that what makes Jon announce his decision to march on WF. He gives his reasons & it isn't to avenge Stannis or oppose Ramsay other than opposition to the threat to the NW itself. He cannot comply with the demands. First & foremost he doesn't have fArya or Then to return to Ramsay, but secondly & most importantly, IMO, handing over people to Ramsay would be meddling in the matters of the realm. The NW is not Ramsay's personal army & Jon is not obligated to collect the people Ramsay is angry with & deliver them to him. Yes, & his words were a direct threat to the NW. I agree they aren't Ramsay's words but for the sake of this discussion - since Jon believes they are, I think we can operate under that premise. Yeah, he thinks it might but I don't think it does. I don't think we have another situation where a Lord is threatening to attack the NW to compare & because of that grey area Jon does not ask his brothers to come along. Well the watch didn't take any part & Ramsay is threatening to attack castle black. He has no reason to attack them now but as far as Jon knows is threatening just that. He is angry his "property" - fArya & Theon have been stolen from him, angry Stannis attacked, thinks maybe Theon & fArya fled to the wall but none of that constitutes the watch taking a part. I suppose if fArya was at the wall (Ramsay has no legal right to Theon) & Jon was protecting her it could be argued the watch was taking part but even then the marriage isn't legal, it isn't Arya, & the marriage was forced under false pretenses so I don't know that the watch would be under any obligation to throw fArya to the wolves, so to speak. Isn't it smarter, strategically to take the fight to Ramsay, with the wildlings, to answer the threat than to wait for Ramsay to attack, forcing the NW to fight on both fronts? Agreed. Sure, he definitely wants Stannis to stand against the Bolton's & maybe I'm arguing semantics here but giving advice isn't necessarily against the rules. Objectively, I agree. Jon made this case in his letter to King's Landing. But from Cersei's point of view Jon is assisting her enemy. Bowen did have a choice. There comes a day when every man must choose, as Aemon said, and Bowen chose to take a side rather than take no part. If Jon did nothing to move against the Bolton's then Stannis would have marched on the Dreadfort with his small army and whatever happened would have been no concern to Jon. That is not the case though. I agree with you that the demands cannot and should not be met. This is part of the point. Honor is doing the right thing, not necessarily sticking to your duty for as we know there are many good men, like Barristan, sworn to bad causes like Aerys. And Jon always strives to do the right thing, and he strives to keep his oath, but sometimes these things come into conflict and that is the conflict he must learn to resolve. I'm not dumping on Jon, or Bowen for that matter, I'm just explaining from my perspective how and why the characters find themselves in such a predicament Quote isn't working right on my phone so I'll try to touch on all the points. I agree he would like to protect Arya but this isn't something he says or thinks when giving his reasons for marching on WF. He does not protect her, as much as he would like to, until Ramsay threatens the NW. Point being, it doesn't seem to be the urge to protect Arya that makes him cave but an opening in which he can kill two birds with one stone. Sure, Cersei's POV is always going to be that. I don't think she is justified in that thinking though. No, I get that you aren't dumping on either & I understand where you are coming from. I agree it's a difficult position & there is lots of grey area there. I would have loved for Jon to forsake his vows to protect Arya the minute he knew of her situation, but he did not. I view this as a loophole of sorts. Jon did want to protect her, he doesn't want WF in the Bolton's hands, he does want Stannis to stand against them but he did not actively do any of that until he had a NW related reason to do so.
  6. I understand he says this but he is answering a threat to the NW. Surely, the black brothers are not expected to not defend themselves? I disagree. He is not waging any war, proxy or no. He has given Stannis advice, he has fed his men, but how could he not when Stannis is the only one to answer the call for help? If he truly wanted to help Stannis's cause he could have accepted the legitimization Stannis was offering him. Tbf, Cersei is a traitor. They would see him as a traitor regardless because he is Ned's son. There is nothing treasonous, IMO, in helping the only army that answered the call for help, to stay alive. Food, shelter, etc. This is what Jon gives them. He certainly had a choice. Ramsay threatened the NW. He threatened Jon directly. Jon did not involve himself in the politics of the realm, not when they have decimated his childhood home, not when being told his sister was being married to this monster. He does nothing to move against Ramsay until Ramsay makes demands of the NW that cannot & should not be met & directly threatens the NW & Jon.
  7. Come now, Samwell? Not a chance. Besides there is a far cry from understanding why he did it & supporting it. It's illegal, they murdered their lord commander. No one supported the men that murdered LC Mormont...
  8. Wasn't it this way anyway? Jon was trying to mend the bad blood between them, Bowen wanted to continue it. So can we really blame Jon for the discord between them?
  9. Yeah fair enough. It'll be interesting! Haha! It's the wait, I'm telling ya, makes cynics out of all of us!
  10. For sure, for a time. But I don't find it likely the NW accepts a murdering, mutineer as even a defacto leader. Oh yeah, things are gonna get messy.
  11. Let's start with the errors in your post. -Lord Commander Snow did not betray the NW. He intended on answering a threat to himself & the NW. -Roose Bolton has naught to do with it, it is Ramsay -The chaos started because of the stabbing of the Lord Commander. - I highly doubt most will side with Bowen, even if they disagreed with Jon's decision, they won't back murder & multiny. The rest is fanfic with no basis in the text. 1. What reason do you have to believe Wun-Wun will be killed, let alone without trouble? 2. That isn't how a LC is elected, there is an... Election, remember? 3. Why would Bowen try to stop the wildlings? He doesn't want them there & if someone doesn't confront Ramsay he intends on attacking the NW. He told them as much. 4. Why?
  12. She is indeed imposing foreign customs on Essos. My contention isn't with how you view the book though, it's with you calling another poster racist or xenophobic for discussing the fictitious plights of a fictitious character. Foreign & Horde aren't bad words. Daenerys is foreign to the people of Mereen & Yunkai, she is leading a horde. ETA: not that it is a contest but your profile says you joined the forum in November of 2021. So not very long, unless you were under another profile previously.
  13. I am so sorry for your loss
  14. Yeah that's what I'm thinking. Could be.
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