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About Lyanna<3Rhaegar

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    Queen of Love and Beauty
  • Birthday 05/18/1980

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  1. Lyanna<3Rhaegar

    Dany and child murder

    Of course she does. She has 3 dragons. The point is she doesn't seem to think much about the treatment of the slaves until it's in her face. She went there to buy an army of slaves. Knowing they were slaves. Upon seeing their horrendous treatment she plots to free them. If she had arrived & the slaves were treated decent she most likely would not have thought twice about the fact that they were slaves - like she had done in the past. It has nothing to do with whether or not she has the power. We have her internal dialogue to know that previously she doesn't think much about the unsullied she comes in contact with.
  2. Lyanna<3Rhaegar

    Is body swapping possible?

    I agree with the other posters that it would depend on the ability of the warg & the strength of the mind he/she is trying to warg into. Why would dragons be harder to warg than dragon riders? It doesn't seem to have anything to do with the size of the beast, only the strength of the mind. Hodor is very large but Bran is able to take control of him with an underdeveloped ability & almost no teaching. Varamyr tries to warg a small woman & has had years of practice & teachings but is unable because she fights him out. I haven't seen anything to suggest Dragons have more intelligence than direwolves or any other beast.
  3. Lyanna<3Rhaegar

    Dany and child murder

    Yes! I forgot that also. I think Daenerys is naive & doesn't think too much about how the unsullied became unsullied when she first encounters them. She isn't in a position to do much for them but as you said it doesn't seem to bother her either. She has, in a sense, turned them into her "nicely" treated slaves. The only difference being she tells them they can go. But realistically where would they go? It's a nice gesture but ultimately empty. Maybe it's a sign of her maturity? A turning point in her character line? Because she is faced with such cruelty she cannot not think about it. It's very in your face at that point.
  4. Lyanna<3Rhaegar

    Appropriate Punishment for Catelyn

    Yes. Jeor & Jon A. Are the unsung heros of the story. What does it say about the story & the society of aSoIaf as a whole that they were both murdered by those closest to them?
  5. Lyanna<3Rhaegar

    Dany and child murder

    This is a very interesting question. I'm not sure. I think she may have bought the slaves (assuming she could pay the price without giving up a dragon) and been on her merry way. It's the treatment of the unsullied that gets her goat & the arrogance & cruelty of their master. I don't say this to down play her liberation of the slaves or to paint it in a more negative light but had she arrived & the slaves were treated decent she probably would not have roasted the place. Whether that's good or bad I don't know. I'm inclined to think freeing slaves, regardless of how they are treated, is a good thing.
  6. Lyanna<3Rhaegar

    Appropriate Punishment for Catelyn

    Yes. IMO in order to make a fair opinion on the matter you must take into consideration the context & all the surrounding pressures & situations. They make a difference.
  7. Lyanna<3Rhaegar

    Appropriate Punishment for Catelyn

    Agreed. We see it repeatedly all through the books. Indeed. It was hard for me to merge my initial impression of Ned - appalled as I was over him beheading this man & taking an 8 year old along to watch - with the man that he ultimately turned out to be. (Bran's age didn't seem so young after reading more of the books but in the beginning I couldn't imagine what kind of monster would do this!) I don't think Ned thought he was lying, I think Ned thought he was crazed. He doesn't appear to put much stock in supernatural things & probably thought Gared was not thinking clearly. Very interesting contrast. Why did Mormont spare Starks son's life but Stark was willing to take Mormonts. On the surface it leads one to believe Ned is more invested in the letter of the law than Mormont, which may be the case, but down deeper I think it shows Mormont is more mature, seasoned, & more apt to think for himself than to blindly follow the 'laws' - which is an issue I think we run into IRL. Do what you're told regardless what is right, or do what is right regardless of what your told. That in itself is a subject I could go on for days about so I'll stop myself before I derail the thread. Doesn't Jeor feel as if Jorah has shamed his family as well? I can't remember if those were his feelings or if he was just telling Jon what Jorah said/felt on the matter. I think we've come full circle here. Ned got beheaded for a treason that many think he was justified in when knowing the whole story. With the same sword that Ned beheaded Gared with for a treason many believe he was justified in when knowing the whole story. I think GRRM repeatedly challenges us with which crime is greater. With Dany & the slavers, Arya, Jon & Bowen & Co etc. There really doesn't seem to be any consensus either. Some believe wholeheartedly Daenerys was completely justified, some believe she is a blood thirsty murderer, others are between the two. I think what is boils down to is your own life experiences. Like with the Rat Cook. George goes out of his way to show us that breaking guest right is a terrible, unforgivable thing. So much so that even cannibalism isn't as bad in asoiaf. It is all so very subjective.
  8. Lyanna<3Rhaegar

    Appropriate Punishment for Catelyn

    Isn't part of being impartial looking at the whole picture though? Only looking at the parts of the crimes that are the same & ignoring the parts that are different is being impartial. What is the most common punishment for treason IRL today is much more irrelevant than the differences in their crimes. aSoIaF isn't real life & isn't in a setting remotely close to today. We will just have to agree to disagree here. Otherwise we will be in a never ending circle. I will tell you Robb did put forth a punishment, you will tell me either that it wasn't a punishment or that it doesn't count because it hadn't begun, I will tell you it is a punishment & really it had started as she was confined to her fathers room at RR, you will tell me that wasn't Robb's punishment, I will tell you it's still a punishment & the only reason her punishment from Robb hadn't started was because she died etc etc etc. So I'll go with the part of your sentence I can discuss without being circular. I don't necessarily disagree with Robb's punishment, however, I can see the argument for a bigger punishment for Cat. She did commit treason, she did release a very valuable prisoner. It wouldn't be unjust or extraordinary for Robb to done something harsher to her. I disagree Cat's crime was more devastating to Robb's war effort. Karstark's crime essentially cost Robb all of Karstark's men. Cat's crime only cost him Jaime. Either way though there is no rule stating that the harsher punishment has to go to the person whose crime was more devastating to the war effort. That is only one thing that should be taken into consideration when doling out punishments. Some of the other things being: What the crime actually was, the motive, any remorse, the effect the crime had on others - not just the war etc. So for arguments sake lets say Cat's crime was more devastating to the war effort. That only makes her worse in 1 out of 5 categories. If Karstarks crime was more devastating to the war effort he is worse in 5 out of 5 categories. I agree that being kin & also being a woman should be taken into consideration. Not necessarily today, IRL but in such a misogynistic society it would be cruel to take away one of the only prejudices towards women that could actually help them. Possibly but I think it's necessary to talk about Stannis & any other King or Queen who has not killed someone for a treasonous action. I disagree that the reason is pure nepotism. Robb didn't kill Cat for a slew of reasons: She is his mother, she is a woman. Robb had just made a very bad judgement call of his own (which is likely what cost him the war more than Cat or Karstark combined) & after letting his emotions cloud his own judgement understood that she let her emotions cloud her judgement as well. Cat had just suffered devastating losses & releasing Jaime had the potential to bring those losses to an end. He understood her reasons were not malicious, they were not meant to hurt him or anyone else. He has known her his entire life & knows she is not the kind of person to purposefully hinder his war efforts. Being a woman she may not see how this would hurt his war efforts as clearly as the men who are leading & fighting the battles. He knows she would not do anything of the nature again. Stannis didn't kill Davos because he had served him faithfully, always been honest - even when being asked about the treason he attempted to commit. Stannis also understood that Davos was doing what he thought was best FOR Stannis with no malicious intent toward Stan or his war effort but quite the opposite. He knows Davos would not do it again. Daenerys didn't kill Jorah because he too had served her faithfully for the most part. She trusted him, she liked him as a person. He was very remorseful & even though Daenerys didn't like it she understood that his treason was committed before he really knew who she was. She knows Jorah would not do it again. Karstark on the other hand killed children. One of the most heinous crimes that can be committed. He did so knowing it could potentially cost Robb his sisters lives, knowing it would do nothing to help his own cause or to bring his child/ren back & instead of being remorseful was insulting & made it very clear he had no remorse - given the chance he would absolutely do it again. I can see that. It seems harsh to me but not too harsh. Almost fate indeed. Whether Robb punished her or no she did receive punishment in it's fullest form.
  9. Lyanna<3Rhaegar

    Dany and child murder

    I agree with most of this but isn't Dany guilty by association with Drogo? The same as the tokar wearing folk that support the slavery are? Dany is essentially wearing the khalasar's 'SS' badge & participating in what they do right? I personally thought 12 was a little young & definitely wouldn't have dropped it to 8 but I do have a hard time with the age differences IRL vs aSoIaF To the OP: 1. I agree with the above explanation for the tokar. 2. I don't think an age is explicitly stated as to when someone is responsible for slavery. Clearly Daenerys thinks it's 12. If I were forced to say an age I suppose it would be at whatever age a child is able to make their own decisions rather than following the rule of their parents in text. I think that age is, in most situations, older than 12 though. 3. Yes those were her explicit orders. A person, wearing a tokar, 12 years of age would've been killed. I think she sanctioned child murder but I don't think she thinks she did... If that makes sense. Whether that is because 12 is a normal number to deem someone responsible for slavery or because she just doesn't make very good decisions I don't know. Either way I believe she wants to avoid killing children. I think she believes she is doing what is right & just. 4. I'm not sure. That's quite the contradiction. 5. This is a difficult question. Yes in a way MMD was a slave rising up against her slavers. I, however, disagree with Daenerys's assumption that slaves/former slaves shouldn't be punished for that. I agree they shouldn't be punished for defending themselves or doing what is necessary to free themselves but when it goes above & beyond that I think it should be punished. I don't know if it was necessary for the slaves to kill the father & eldest son but I do know it wasn't necessary for them to rape the mother. That should be punished. It can be argued that MMD needed to kill Drogo to free herself, maybe even Daenerys but definitely not Rhaego.
  10. Lyanna<3Rhaegar

    Appropriate Punishment for Catelyn

    Her confinement was still the start of her punishment whether it came from the King or no. I apologize for the confusion but I did say I wasn't positive. Possibly it was Karstark's men I was thinking of? Or maybe I'm just not remembering correctly. Yes, banishing his mother to a strange castle is absolutely a punishment. He hadn't done this earlier so it was clearly not only for her safety. W You tell me what he should have done? Lobbed his mother's head off? I suppose it would have been an easier fate than what she ultimately faces.
  11. Lyanna<3Rhaegar

    Appropriate Punishment for Catelyn

    Amazing parallels as always Seams. I love the Alyssa Arryn parallel. Cat is suffering a worse punishment than most can even imagine. P.s. I couldn't quote that post right either.
  12. Lyanna<3Rhaegar

    Why Lord Walder is great for the story

    You're right. His family will be hanging from all the highest trees.
  13. Lyanna<3Rhaegar

    Appropriate Punishment for Catelyn

    Maybe the differences are irrelevant to you but to most they are not. Obviously they were not irrelevant to Robb & every other person there minus Karstark. Her punishment had started. She was confined to her father's room at RR. Just because the punishment may have not been permanent does not mean it's not a punishment. People get sentenced to some form of punishment every day & the majority of them are not permanent. Again, if your argument is that Cat's punishment wasn't harsh enough, I'll agree there are logical arguments for that. What I disagree with is that she deserved the same as Karstark. The punishment for treason is death but obviously that's up to the Kings discretion as shown with your quote. Davos didn't lose his head either. Because the why matters. Because the way they committed treason matters, to Stannis, Robb, and most every other King we have witnessed in the text. I don't have time to look up quotes but IIRC Catelyn was very worried that Karstark & Co were going to kill Jaime while Robb was away. I think this is a very real possibility.
  14. Lyanna<3Rhaegar

    Appropriate Punishment for Catelyn

    They are both treason but they are very, very different. Robb was completely justified & well within his rights to punish Karstark with a beheading & Cat with banishment. In fact it seems to be only some on this forum & Karstark & Co that disagree. I get why Karstark's don't like it but it's an enigma to me that people can't understand the differences between killing children & setting a prisoner free. (a prisoner that probably would have been killed as well had he not been set free)
  15. Lyanna<3Rhaegar

    Jon Snow and Julius Caesar

    I'm trying my very best to not turn this into another Jon vs Bowen thread so I'll just say this: No.