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About Reekazoid

  • Birthday 03/05/1974

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  1. Jamie's killing of Aerys is a self-redemptive action, because the action resulted in an instantaneous and permanent saving of thousands of lives. There is no further justification needed. My point in bringing up the other characters is that at least one of them was a anointed knight, who had sworn vows not to do teethings they did. Each of the three from different cultures with different notions of honor did things that no one would consider honorable, whereas Jamie did none of those things. This is in general support of the grayness of characters and the vague and poorly implemented system of vows and conceptions of honor. As far "whataboutism" I am pretty sure you brought up the sister-banging yourself. The way in which y ou said it made me think that you thought it was a bad thing, but that did not make sense to me because you are not also criticizing Aerys Targaryen for doing the same thing to his sister. I mentioned that Aerys Targaryen repeatedly raped and mutilated his sister, and act that you may actually be defending, by not condemning it now that it has been brought into the conversation. Jamie knew bout the repeated sexual violence perpetrated by Aerys Targaryen and it is stated in the text that he wanted to do something about it, but was prevented from doing so because Aerys Targaryen was the king. Don't take it too hard, I really enjoy reminding people what an absolute piece of shit Aerys was. If I can come and do it in a "oh noes the poor wronged Targeryens" thread, it makes me double happy. As others pointed out above, by the time Jamie killed Aerys the rebellion was over, the city had fallen to the rebels, the Red Keep had been breached, and Aerys Targaryen was king of nothing. Aerys Targaryen knew this and wanted to take everyone down with him, and Jamie decided to stop him. Jamie would have died in the fire as well, so he was also saving his own life by killing Aerys Targaryen. So let us recap: Reasons why Jamie Might Have Killed Aerys Targaryen: - Save innocent lives in King's Landing from wildfire (this counts as part of knight's oath) - Save rebel army from wildfire (counts as implicit family oath) - Save himself from wildfire (self defense) - Execute a former king (as stated above, Aerys had already lost. At this point in time, he wasn't even king anymore) who was an insane murderer (falls under knight's oath) - Execute a former king who was a serial rapist (yep, knight's oath) - Save the kingdom from further way by removing the deposed king of the former regime from the political equation - (Possibly) obeying an order from his father (implicit family oath) - for the lulz So we have all these vows floating around, but we don't have an established hierarchy of vows. What is more important, the vow of chastity or the vow of loyalty to your king or your vow to protect the weak? My dude, you mention that Jamie killed The Mad Rapist King Aerys Targaryen because he wanted to, but I am not finding textual support but I would like to read some if you have it. From my readings, Jamie never killed anyone except in battle before he executed Aerys, so we don't have an established pattern of wanton violence and killing for pleasure like we do with Hoat, Weeper, or Lorch from my examples. Even Aerys Targaryen killed for pleasure. He would burn motherfuckers for weird-ass reasons and then use the resulting boner to go rape and mutilate his sister. Like, Jamie executed the mad king, and he threw Bran out the window... but what else did he do that makes you think he killed Aerys out of naked desire to kill him?
  2. This. Also remember that Robert was not a very imaginative or introspective person. He seems to me to be the kind to make decisions on the fly, stick to them, and then accept the results. He killed Rhaegar on the Trident but he was completely prepared to die there too. He didn't carry any prophecies with him into battle, just his hammer. I am sure that Robert did not want to waste his conscious thought on fear and mistrust of Jamie, and even though it is not written in the text, I speculate that the story and context of why Jamie killed Aerys would have been told to Tywin, Jon Arryn, and Robert at the very least, and if that were the case I can easily picture Robert mulling it over for a few seconds, deciding that it is what he would have likely done in Jamie's shoes, then shrugging it off to move on to something else.
  3. Aerys banged his sister too. Raped her, in fact. And mutilated her repeatedly. Jamie wanted to protect the queen, but other "more honorable" knights prevented him from doing so, because apparently being a Targaryen king gives you license to main, rape, and brutalize your own sister? At least Jamie's sister was a willing participant.
  4. Heroism is not binary in these stories, nor is villainy. Everything is gray. No one is always a hero... not Ned Stark, not Barristan Selmy, not Arthur Dayne, not Daenerys Targaryen... you get the idea. Now surely some characters are less redeemable than others, but even that bar is set ambiguously at times. If we read fairly and with intellectual honesty we can see that the relative heroism and villainy in a gray world should be measured by context, choice, and outcomes as much as anything else and certainly more so than idealistic concepts such as vaguely-defined codes of honor, conflicting vows, or racial ancestry. Sure, Jamie is no "hero" but he is also no Ser Amery Lorch, nor is he even a Weeper or a Vargo Hoat. I personally think it is unfair to throw extra villain points at Jamie because the king he justifiably killed - in a remarkable show of maturity and courage, I might add - happened to be a Targaryen king. How dare he! Didn't he know that Targz are better than everyone because they have unusual coloration and used to ride around on dragons? They aren't better, though. They're just store-brand Atlanteans that couldn't even rule a less advanced society for very long without losing all their magic swords, killing each other off, and murdering all of their own fire lizards. *Slow clap*
  5. Ayep... you got that right. The author told us this outright.
  6. You know... bcuz of the sekrit message on the One Ring Aegon's dagger that can only be revealed by flame. The ancient prophecy that was just retconned in to the story, where the Targeryen's are secretly guardians of the flame imperishable light bringer and have to be around and in charge with their fire lizards for when the long night comes. Maybe we need a new "show spoilers" update now that there is a new show that can be used to pollute these discussions with ridiculous fan fiction.
  7. Blood and Cheese! Kidding, kidding… 1. Dunk & Egg 2. Davos and Saan 3. Irri and Jiqhui (Frenemies. It is known. ) 4. Alysanne Mormont and Asha Greyjoy. 5. Jeor Mormont and his crow 6. Jamie and Brienne 7. Rickon Stark and the Walders 8. Davos and Shireen
  8. Nice, symbolism and word play. Breathing shadow fire perhaps could refer to Aegon spreading grayscale?
  9. The prehistoric analogue of a Dire Wolf is a Cave Lion.
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