kissdbyfire

Ah okay then. I haven’t read the scene where Cat finally sees the bones in forever, I didn’t remember her thoughts on this. I’ll reread the passage, now I’m curious. I don’t believe he is alive, though there’s always been much speculation. There’s also always been discussions about Ned’s spirit having gone… into someone else? I don’t believe that either, mostly because I haven’t seen any hints pointing to something like that. As to Cat thinking she “doesn’t recognise” his skeleton and whether that could be b/c his spirit isn’t in his bones… I don’t know. Wouldn’t that be the same for everyone? Even if the corpse is still whole, the spirit isn’t there anymore, therefore shouldn’t the dead person feel alien somehow to everyone?

Sansa sees there are heads on the parapet but doesn't look directly at them on purpose. She looks out towards the north. Then Joffrey makes her look, and she does; she looks without seeing. It’s literally spelled out in the text. AGoT, Sansa VI What are you looking at?" Joffrey said. "This is what I wanted you to see, right here." A thick stone parapet protected the outer edge of the rampart, reaching as high as Sansa's chin, with crenellations cut into it every five feet for archers. The heads were mounted between the crenels, along the top of the wall, impaled on iron spikes so they faced out over the city. Sansa had noted them the moment she'd stepped out onto the wallwalk, but the river and the bustling streets and the setting sun were ever so much prettier. He can make me look at the heads, she told herself, but he can't make me see them. "This one is your father," he said. "This one here. Dog, turn it around so she can see him." Sandor Clegane took the head by the hair and turned it. The severed head had been dipped in tar to preserve it longer. Sansa looked at it calmly, not seeing it at all. It did not really look like Lord Eddard, she thought; it did not even look real. "How long do I have to look?" As to Cat not recognizing Ned’s bones, surely it’s a joke, right?

What are you saying? Because if you keep at this pace we’ll get to “no one has ever died on Planetos, they’re all immortal”.

Are you serious?

Loyal to the Targs but also fully committed to a greater purpose perhaps? I would rather prophecies in general were a sort of red herring. As in, someone hears/learns of a prophecy, fully believe in it and end up causing it to come true. I don’t know how Martin will deal with this, I don’t know if he’s going to make them real instead of self-fulfilling prophecies, which would be more interesting imo. But either way, we know several characters knew of a prophecy or believed in one or were told one or whatever. We also know Rhaegar either read something or was told something and started to try to learn more (I’m not going to say he was obsessed with this b/c we simply don’t know enough; it’s certainly possible but in no way a given). Bloodraven went to the Wall a long time before Rhaegar was born, but what are the odds that, if there was a prophecy about the Others, that he wouldn’t know about it? Zero imo. I think ending up at the Wall was exactly what he intended.

Yeah, but it goes without saying, right? Anything good in the books was destroyed in the abomination. Alternatively, anything bad in the books was made so much worse in the abomination!

Is that why Jon keeps thinking about Mance and where he is and why he isn’t back? I was wondering if you could provide a quote showing where you got this info? Or at least point me to where in the books I’d be able to find any textual support for this? Or is this just something you know because you’ve seen it in a crystal ball or something? Some unwanted advice: don’t waste your time thinking about what Marsh will do, b/c he won’t do anything other than die. You’re welcome.

I’m not sure if this is what you mean, but I take for certain that the IB originate from a splinter group of the FM. And that doesn’t really change anything for me. Meaning, we have no reports or accounts or anything claiming the FM practiced slavery or thralldom in any way. This seems to be a practice the IB started once they settled the II. The practice of FN is horrible, w/o question. And it’s something that the FM started, Andals didn’t abolish upon arriving, and Targs joined in gleefully. So my point remains since this would still keep them at a draw in terms of “evil practices”. With Valyrians still being a nation that was a massive enslaver of other peoples w/ the added “bonus” of full on sibling on sibling incest.

Yeah, I agree. Aegon really comes across as enjoying doing horrible things and being a horrible king/person. And Robert is both but maybe doesn’t enjoy it, And for the most part Robert’s reign was ok, w Arryn as hand etc. I have one good thing only to say of Aegon IV, and it’s something that just happened and not something he actively did, and that is that he fathered the one hero of the story, Brynden Bloodraven Rivers.

Considering there are no accounts or reports or anything saying ancient Starks were the main enslavers of other peoples in Westeros (or anywhere) nor that they ever practiced systematic sibling fucking, there’s no way that they will compare to ancient Targs.

I don’t know… one chapter ends with the will being signed, then there’s the one where they arrive at the Twins, and then it’s “party time” (sorry). It’s not like she’s had pages and pages to think about Robb’s will. The chapter between the will and the RW has very, very little inner monologue; it’s really just a couple of thoughts revolving around the upcoming wedding and how to navigate the situation. Probably on purpose, to avoid giving anything away. ps: out of curiosity, who do you think Robb named his heir?

Yes, same here. And by the way, douchy is a great adjective for the Blackfish, love it!

Agree. I was thinking Robb could have named Arya his heir to appease Cat even if he believed her to be dead. And in Arya’s absence, Jon. Could make for interesting developments.

Agree. Mentioning all his siblings but Arya is… odd. It could be a hint. What’s also interesting is that while Robb may have believed her to be dead, we know she isn’t. So it is within the realm of possibility that since he just added her to appease Cat not really caring what he assigned to her, this could have actual consequences once she’s revealed to be alive.

In regards to Sansa and Arya… I find it interesting that while Robb and Cat talk about both girls when discussing the issue earlier, when Robb presents his will to the Greatjon, Maege Mormont, Galbart Glover, Jason Mallister and Edmure, he talks about his brothers and Sansa but never mentions Arya. I’ve often wondered if he added her in some fashion to the will. Not b/c he thinks she’s alive but more as a small gesture to appease Cat. “I left my wife at Riverrun. I want my mother elsewhere. If you keep all your treasures in one purse, you only make it easier for those who would rob you. After the wedding, you shall go to Seagard, that is my royal command.” Robb stood, and as quick as that, her fate was settled. He picked up a sheet of parchment. “One more matter. Lord Balon has left chaos in his wake, we hope. I would not do the same. Yet I have no son as yet, my brothers Bran and Rickon are dead, and my sister is wed to a Lannister. I’ve thought long and hard about who might follow me. I command you now as my true and loyal lords to fix your seals to this document as witnesses to my decision. ”A king indeed, Catelyn thought, defeated. She could only hope that the trap he’d planned for Moat Cailin worked as well as the one in which he’d just caught her.”