kissdbyfire

Marsh is not inherently evil, and he may have what he thinks are good intentions. And you know what they say, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". The main problem w/ Marsh for me isn't even the assassination attempt on Jon. It's the fact that he's a coward, and definitely not the sharpest knife in the drawer. He wanted to sit atop the Wall and block all the tunnels, like that's not the dumbest idea ever. And to make it even worse, he's a racist xenophobe. He's also a spineless lickspittle who wants to please Tywin Lannister. So, really, I have absolutely nothing good to say about him.

Gods be good... Marsh is not 1/100th of the man Jaime is.

Yup, when you play the game of spin, you win or you get called out on your incompetence and . David, Dan, HBO (and the rest of them) got called out.

What's that got to do w/ Rhaegar taking after his daddy or not?

Aerys was vain and fickle from the start, even if his worst traits didn’t become obvious until later. We have no indication that Rhaegar was anything like his father; in fact, what we do have points in the opposite direction. Also, we don’t know what happened between Rhaegar, Lyanna, Elia, etc. We have only a small amount of speculation and head canon from some characters, like Robert. So, I don’t think it’s fair to pass judgement on Rhaegar just yet, when there’s so little information.

The point is that this thread is to complain about the show, whichever way one feels like complaining, not to debate whatever.

Well, that episode was pure horror, no doubt. Just not how it was intended, but horror nonetheless.

They kept him b/c Martin told them he had important plans for Rickon, and then they did what they did to the character! Their total cluelessness is fucking priceless!

Were they really? I think not, I think that’s giving them way too much undeserved credit. I think it’s simpler and sadder than that... they simply didn’t get it, any of it. They didn’t understand the story, like, not at all. They thought the story is a nihilist fest because there are horrible things in it. And then they turned it up to 11 18, because their mentality is “more is better”. So, this really only shows that they absolutely didn’t understand any of it, and that their interpretation is deeply flawed and completely shallow.

Shocking. /s So, basically, they did the same as they had w/ the sept scene. Yes, they hated Jaime almost as much as Sansa. They had a big hate boner for Stannis as well. Hate boners for so many characters. No wonder the whole thing feels like a hugely dismal pile of poop, it’s all about the hate, the vile monsters, the betrayals. It’s so clear they really don’t understand the story at all... Because Martin’s story has those elements, but they are not what’s the story is about. The show, on the other hand, is only about that, and all about that. Honour gets you killed, being a nasty psycho perv gets you the rewards.

Ugh, I had deleted this rubbish from my brain... Jaime killing his cousin just because (he is a monster!), and the sept rape. Ugh, ugh, ugh. Was the scene in the White Tower in the show? I can’t remember... where Cersei tries to use sex to get Jaime to do what she wants, and he turns her down?

So true. The show also seemed to have an issue w/ good looking man. I mean, look at what utter idiots they turned Jon and Jaime into!

This shit is 100% priceless!!!

Ugh, just watched again. They also say that Stannis is all about ambition and that he’s too stubborn. They really don’t understand the characters or the story. And they say that when we first meet Stannis, he’s sacrificing people, burning them alive on Dragonstone. They can’t even remember their own show! And Davos is a moron, too. The way they shot/edited the scene w/ Davos and Stannis, well, Davos knew what was going to happen, and yet he walked away. Book Davos would never. Ever, no matter the cost. Davos is also a moron b/c he’s the one who asks Mel to bring Jon back, isn’t he? I’m not sure b/c I wasn’t watching anymore, but I think it was him. So, after Mel burns Shireen and it all turns to shit for Stannis, why would he think Mel would be able to do anything?

Well, the way they phrased it was, “when George first told us about this”... Which is interesting. Especially in context: their Sansa Poole idiocy got lots of backlash just a few episodes earlier. Also interesting was that they said they were totally shocked upon learning that Shireen would burn - although here I don’t remember whether they said specifically Shireen burning or just said, “it”. But the point here is, clearly they failed at understanding the books, of they read them at all. No reader will be shocked if Shireen burns, readers have been waiting for it for a long time now. And yet, David and Dan were totes shocked, as in, didn’t see it coming at all.

Is it this one? ADwD, Jon I “The white wolf raced through a black wood, beneath a pale cliff as tall as the sky. The moon ran with him, slipping through a tangle of bare branches overhead, across the starry sky. “Snow,” the moon murmured. The wolf made no answer. Snow crunched beneath his paws. The wind sighed through the trees. Far off, he could hear his packmates calling to him, like to like. They were hunting too. A wild rain lashed down upon his black brother as he tore at the flesh of an enormous goat, washing the blood from his side where the goat’s long horn had raked him. In another place, his little sister lifted her head to sing to the moon, and a hundred small grey cousins broke off their hunt to sing with her. The hills were warmer where they were, and full of food. Many a night his sister’s pack gorged on the flesh of sheep and cows and horses, the prey of men, and sometimes even on the flesh of man himself.”

I don’t remember the actual scene, just that it felt incredibly dumb and underwhelming. But dumb and underwhelming describe so much of the show... including stuff regarded by some as “epic” and “excellent”, like that god-awful battle at the CB (s4, I think?), Hardhome and wights on crack and the woman who couldn’t kill child wights b/c ovaries make you dumb and irrational. And so much more... As to Olly, I think he was the worst character they created. Yes, worse than Talisa. All that screen time wasted on Olly stares, ffs.

What a load of bollocks. 1: they didn't want to spoil anything: well, they sure as hell didn't mind spoiling a bunch of other things, going as far as the Stannis thing which was just David & Dan hiding behind Martin's back after the Sansa Poole backlash. IMO this points to Jaime doing something that would make him, at the very least, interesting. And we can't have anything that contradicts the dumb douchy Jaime they turned the character into. 2: LSH would be beneath Fairley: I have to look it up, but didn't Michelle Fairley say she'd love to come back as LSH? This was, iirc, right before one of the series where there was huge speculation that LSH was going to appear. 3: diminish the shock of Jon's death and resurrection: what @Prince of the North said, what did they do w/ that? Nothing, absolutely fucking nothing. Jon's death was pathetic and laughable... remember Olly? His resurrection scene was one of the most underwhelming ever, and the "consequences" were... well, non-existent.

And the show made Jaime rape Cersei in that scene. It’s almost like the opposite of what happens in the book. It’s shocking how they really didn’t care and didn’t get it. Any of it, in any storyline.

You forgot Sweetrobin! And I'm sure there are others as well... Poor Sansa, the most shipped character ever! The main difference between Sandor and everyone else is that there are lots and lots of things in the books connecting him to Sansa, whereas there's fuck all supporting any of the others. IMO. And again IMO the cake (as in, the worst of all) goes to Jonsa. Sadly the show destroyed all romance, together w/ the actual story. In the end there was nothing left... nothing left of the actual characters, nothing left of the actual story. Just dumb shocks that were so awfully boring. Yawn.

No, he didn't. Even w/ Cersei imprisoning Ned, that's not how he lost his head. Cersei didn't expect that, b/c that was little psycho shithead Joffrey. So Martin wasn't saying that honour is dumb and gets you killed, but rather that trying to do the right thing in a ruthless world can have dire consequences. And on a side note, what the fuck is the deal w/ Dany fans that think Jorah is oh-so-great for her? What the fuck, Jorah is a creepy stalker in the books, and the show, again, changed that, too.

More from the excerpt quoted up thread by @Ser Drewy: Martin: Then came the filming of the wedding night. In the Emilia Clarke version, it’s rape. It’s not rape in my book, and it’s not rape in the scene as we filmed it with Tamzin Merchant. It’s a seduction. Dany and Drogo don’t have the same language. Dany is a little scared but also a little excited, and Drogo is being more considerate. The only words he knows are “yes” or “no.” Originally it was a fairly faithful version.

Hmmm. I wholeheartedly disagree. From a storytelling point of view if was so dumb it made my brain hurt. Seriously, even leaving the set up aside... Rickon running across that huge ass field in a straight line, and Jon, like the dumbass the show turned him into, running towards Rickon to save him? As to the actual battle, meh. At least it wasn’t in pitch-black darkness so dark you can’t see a damn thing. I stand by my opinion, total and utter bollocks.

I felt kind of sorry for the guy... he was trying so hard to find something that made sense, but in the end he couldn’t. Not his fault, obviously; he can’t find what isn’t there/doesn’t exist. I highly doubt the Ds would crash and burn on purpose. Even that requires some skill, and they’re not good enough writers even for that. I also disagree w/ the guy when he says the Ds were awesome and brilliant early on. They weren’t, and their inventions were always awful. It’s just that early on their crap didn’t stand out like a sore and pox infested thumb the way it did after s4. Just my 2p worth, of course.

And a scene that is so highly praised, right? The great Battle of the Bastards! What a load of bollocks... I hated everything about it, from the set up to the conclusion, total 100% David and Dan special brand of poor, dumb, and nonsensical “story telling”.