kissdbyfire

The direwolves pick up on Robb's hostile feelings towards Tyrion, that's all. And btw ask Ghost how bothered he is by .Jon's blood.

“Who are you?” Meera Reed was asking. Bran knew. “She’s a child. A child of the forest.” He shivered, as much from wonderment as cold. They had fallen into one of Old Nan’s tales. “The First Men named us children,” the little woman said. “The giants called us woh dak nag gran, the squirrel people, because we were small and quick and fond of trees, but we are no squirrels, no children. Our name in the True Tongue means those who sing the song of earth. Before your Old Tongue was ever spoken, we had sung our songs ten thousand years.” Meera said, “You speak the Common Tongue now.” “For him. The Bran boy. I was born in the time of the dragon, and for two hundred years I walked the world of men, to watch and listen and learn. I might be walking still, but my legs were sore and my heart was weary, so I turned my feet for home.”

Forget for a second that we have books and show. W/ that in mind I'd say forget the show. Not because it will spoil anything, but rather because it's so goddamn awful on its own that it's simply not worth watching. There are loads of awesome TV shows and loads of awesome books to get one through the wait.

Strong argument right there. And you elaborated on it beautifully, too! /s

As Jon tells Ygritte, "I suppose it's all in where you're standing". While what stands out to you is that Coldhands serves up human flesh to Bran, Meera, Hodor and Jojen, to me it is the fact that he saved their lives.

Interesting, but not sure it's very likely. Do you have a link to where he elaborates on the hows and whys and such? I'd like to read more about it. IMO Barry and Stannis are the front runners, but if I absolutely had to pick one it'd be Barry.

This. Also, we have the Old Bear telling Tyrion (I think it was Tyrion but could be wrong) that WWs had been seen near Eastwatch. If he knew this it's verly likely that other crows did too.

1- Ned and Jon Arryn bethrotals to Cat and Lysa respectively. 2 - Robb was going to pick one of Walder Frey's daughters.

Indeed. But given the context of the OP I'll stick to my previous response.

@Rhaenys_Targaryen, why, oh why...

Sure. If Jon was Ned's son, which he isn't.

It's very annoying when it happens, but I'd say those are shut down/moved pretty quickly. I don't want to hear about the abomination, preferably, not ever again! I always warn posters, but if they don't fix their posts I sure as hell report. Overall I think it's been pretty good, how separate both are being kept around here.

Oh boy, here we go again... ADwD, Jon XIII "The Night's Watch takes no part in the wars of the Seven Kingdoms," Jon reminded them when some semblance of quiet had returned. "It is not for us to oppose the Bastard of Bolton, to avenge Stannis Baratheon, to defend his widow and his daughter. This creature who makes cloaks from the skins of women has sworn to cut my heart out, and I mean to make him answer for those words … but I will not ask my brothers to forswear their vows. "The Night's Watch will make for Hardhome. I ride to Winterfell alone, unless …" Jon paused. "… is there any man here who will come stand with me?" The roar was all he could have hoped for, the tumult so loud that the two old shields tumbled from the walls. Soren Shieldbreaker was on his feet, the Wanderer as well. Toregg the Tall, Brogg, Harle the Huntsman and Harle the Handsome both, Ygon Oldfather, Blind Doss, even the Great Walrus. I have my swords, thought Jon Snow, and we are coming for you, Bastard. When Jon speaks in the Shieldhall, he makes it very clear why he's decided to do what he's going to do. We know Arya is a very powerful motivator, and that's just as it should be. But Ramsay has threatened the NW and its LC. People love to bring up how the NW is not supposed to interfere in the affairs of the 7K, but that's a two-way street; Ramsay has no right to threaten the Watch, even if he suspects the Watch is involved in fArya's escaping from Winterfell. Still, one could possibly argue that what Jon says is an excuse, a way he's found to justify the "unjustifiable": breaking the Watch's neutrality and meddling in the affairs of the real. But very shortly afterwards, as he leaves the Shieldhall, we have his own thoughts. He is going after Ramsay. He's gonna make Ramsay answer for his threats. And the the way he thinks about it makes it clear that he thinks it's possible Ramsay has left Winterfell already and is on his way to CB. Yes, it's that simple. ADwD, Jon XIII Horse and Rory fell in beside Jon as he left the Shieldhall. I should talk with Melisandre after I see the queen, he thought. If she could see a raven in a storm, she can find Ramsay Snow for me. Then he heard the shouting … and a roar so loud it seemed to shake the Wall. "That come from Hardin's Tower, m'lord," Horse reported. He might have said more, but the scream cut him off. As to the question about Jon's role in Winds, well, I think he will be the King of Winter. Jon Snow, King of Winter.

Yeah, it's a real possibility, I agree. Still, unless Marsh communicated w/ Hewett to let him know in advance, it won't matter much straight away. I think Marsh has been involved n plotting against Jon for quite some time. At some point he/they decide it's time to act and remove Jon. But... something forces his hand and he decides to carry out the assassination sooner than expected. Quite possibly a combo of things w/ the PL followed by Jon's speech as the final straw. The numbers we are getting from characters are not adding up. Jon says there's ~ 400 crows at CB early on in ADwD Marsh says Tormund came in w/ 3,000+ and that alone means the free folk will outnumber the crows 3:1. But if CB has 400, thrice that would be 1,200. And counting is literally the ONLY thing Marsh is capable of doing. It's weird. That's why I think it is possible that it's just a mistake, like the gender of horses and colours of eyes. I didn't make myself clear, sorry. I think it is possible that crows at EbtS and or the ST are involved in the conspirators' plotting, but I don't see any correlation between that and Marsh's counts being off. ETA: just saw a couple of new posts and have to ask... Am I wandering off topic? If so, apologies, I didn't think I was...

Actually... brb Nope. He is considering all w/ Tormund. And there's still the ones that came before, how many were there? 600? I don't remember. Found it, c lose to 1,000 actually. ADwD, Jon III Lady Melisandre watched him rise. "FREE FOLK! Here stands your king of lies. And here is the horn he promised would bring down the Wall." Two queen's men brought forth the Horn of Joramun, black and banded with old gold, eight feet long from end to end. Runes were carved into the golden bands, the writing of the First Men. Joramun had died thousands of years ago, but Mance had found his grave beneath a glacier, high up in the Frostfangs. And Joramun blew the Horn of Winter, and woke giants from the earth. Ygritte had told Jon that Mance never found the horn. She lied, or else Mance kept it secret even from his own. A thousand captives watched through the wooden bars of their stockade as the horn was lifted high. All were ragged and half-starved. Wildlings, the Seven Kingdoms called them; they named themselves the free folk. They looked neither wild nor free—only hungry, frightened, numb.

It is weird. But how could this have anything to do w/ the conspiracy against Jon? I mean, it's quite possible that others at EbtS and/or ST are involved. But know the free folk w/ Tormund number roughly around 3,000 because we have it from other characters as well. I also don't think Jon could be so off when he thinks about those 200 being 'more than half'. Could it be just one of those mistakes that slip by?

Damn straight! But Marsh's count is off, innit? If there are roughly 400 crows at CB, and Tormund brings 3,000 + change, the free folk will have much more than 3 x. Hmmm. Now I do wonder... at any rate, the free folk outnumber the crows.

Weren't some sent to EbS and ST? If I'm not mistaken, more than half the hostages are not there, something like 60 something? Or was it 40 something? And the ones at CB are not going to be locked up in a room, they will be housed... where the recruits are housed would be my guess. Jon makes it very clear that they will work and train etc. The Thunderfist's boy will be Jon's squire/page whatever. ADwD, Jon XI Yet even that did not appease his Lord Steward. "You say these boys will serve as squires. Surely the lord commander does not mean they will be trained at arms?" Jon's anger flared. "No, my lord, I mean to set them to sewing lacy smallclothes. Of course they shall be trained at arms. They shall also churn butter, hew firewood, muck stables, empty chamber pots, and run messages … and in between they will be drilled with spear and sword and longbow." ADwD, Jon XII No, thought Jon Snow, it has only just begun. Bowen Marsh was waiting for him south of the Wall, with a tablet full of numbers. "Three thousand one hundred and nineteen wildlings passed through the gate today," the Lord Steward told him. "Sixty of your hostages were sent off to Eastwatch and the Shadow Tower after they'd been fed. Edd Tollett took six wagons of women back to Long Barrow. The rest remain with us."

A quickie regarding numbers... In Dance, when Mancelshirt is about to be executed, Jon has a bunch of men w/ him. And he thinks that they are mostly older men and green boys. He also ponders... he has 200 men w/ him, and that's more than half of CB's crows. ADwD, Jon III Inside his cage, Mance Rayder clawed at the noose about his neck with bound hands and screamed incoherently of treachery and witchery, denying his kingship, denying his people, denying his name, denying all that he had ever been. He shrieked for mercy and cursed the red woman and began to laugh hysterically. Jon watched unblinking. He dare not appear squeamish before his brothers. He had ordered out two hundred men, more than half the garrison of Castle Black. Mounted in solemn sable ranks with tall spears in hand, they had drawn up their hoods to shadow their faces … and hide the fact that so many were greybeards and green boys. The free folk feared the Watch. Jon wanted them to take that fear with them to their new homes south of the Wall.

Yup. But the thing is, this twist involves a character that the show killed off but is alive in the books. So, it's not some character that never made it to the screen. That narrows down things a bit. Also, it's not a new character. Martin talks about 15 characters the show killed off that are alive in the books... Also, we should look at when exactly he said that. He first talked about the twist in 2015, then in 2016 he confirmed he was going to go for it. But when in 2016? For instance, by the time he says he will go for the twist and that the show has killed off this character, had series 6 aired already? If so, which characters were killed in s 6 that are still alive in the books? I think the more likely ones are ser Barry, Stannis, Jojen, Doran, Pyp, Grenn, Shireen, Selyse... who else? And Mance!

I was thinking along these lines but thought it was just my wishful thinking getting the better of me. But you're thinking the same, so maybe it's not just wishful thinking!

I just saw that! "Jennings, Elizabeth", made the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end.

Well, when was it first out? That's how old my version is! But apparently no updates available.

My e-book says only "v3.1".

Nope, had two updates for 2 other books, totally unrelated to TWoIaF.