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frenin

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  1. I'm sorry but Mereenese culture is not a "society with slaves", so to speak, it's a slave society. The culture, the religion, everything is aimed to control, subdue, exploit and opress slaves. You cannot only want to change the engine that makes the whole machine work, you transform everything or you change nothing. Obviously but that was always foretold because Dany started her campaign precisely to alter the cultures, traditions and so on in Slaver's Bay. Dany's campaign is fundamentally different than that of Aegon I for example. So it's kinda silly when both characters and fans expect Dany to imitate him and "put on the floppy ears" And she didn't like it, simple enough. She saw it barbaric. And more importantly, she was at war with half the people you have mentioned lol. The free men were ex slaves conditioned to believe their lives was glorious, Dany didn't want to impose her will on them and at the end of the day she didn't even tho she find it egregious. She could still have refused because she said so but chose not to. When Dany conquered Mereen, Yunkai and Astapor she had every mean to destroy the Masters easily, she did just that in Astapor. She could have done so in Yunkai and Mereen which she defeated easily too. She didn't want to spill more blood so she tried to compromise and we know how that went.
  2. If the culture is at odds with your values, and you want to impose a rule imposed on your values, it might not be the smartest move by its certainly the only route. The "not the brightest move" bit was Dany refusing to actually enforce it. Didn't she have an economy plan with the olives that the harpies and their allies blocked based on principle? I simply don't understand the argument. She "choked off a major money earner" because it was against her values. Would you make this argument if it was a sex slave in Lys? That is true, she should have given them a role in her army. Being chummy with a powerful elite, why do they remain powerful in the first time, when you have opposite and irreconciliable worldviews in just about everything, is certainly not the brightest move.
  3. I do not know how, he doesn't mention the Dothraki at all. He may mention only the bows used in the Free cities or by sellswords. Because we're told it's like that, explictly even. You're the one using real life events to disabuse fiction. I have read them, i read it a couple of times a while ago, i'm sorry but your argument is a fallacy in and on itself. We simply do not know a number of issues you're stating as fact. Using irl events or settings makes sense when the books give us a starting point but as it stands, they were perfectly able to adapt themselves His speech says that the leather armour et co were weak against the arrows of the Dothraki, not heavy armour in particular, even tho he didn't fancy their chances. I would say that they are aware of the importance of armour, they have fought men with armour before and Jorah is quite respected among them, which would not happen if they didn't believe he wasn't dangerous. I find hard when they were going to be seen, as we often only get to see the first wave of them yet we're mostly talk about peasants. We don't know the extent of the training and we don't even know if they are the norm or if that was Tywin and Steffon's suggestion, Borros Baratheon sure as hell did not train his. Huh, fair enough. That is a non argument then. Most conquests usually are. Well it was for the Targaryens and for the Baratheons, i truly don't know why it should be different for Aegon. Redwyne Fleet would need to destroy Euron almost completely unscathed to have enough fleet to carry enough manpower and resources to carry out a naval invasion. Menting away as in there are assaults, not as in they are losing men by the the thousands. 2k men were transported to Dragonstone. There's no hint that the Lannisters have spent too much money, in fact Martin has said that the gold is still flowing. Not quite the King of the 7 Kingdoms then. That can be defended but i don't think they'll have neither the men nor the resources to take the vale and the iron islands, i don't think they'll have the resources to take either. And that's ofc operating on the belief that the Redwyne Fleet would be mostly operartive, which is far from certain. Hard to believe given that she had all that and she's already more popular than Aegon. Half the continent fought for Aerys and Rhaegar, legitmacy helped them a good lot. They simply lost. About the latter, well we don't know, as of now they are hers and so long as that remains true, she has every possible advantage when it comes to the other pretenders. Yep. Dragons are the symbol of legitimacy, dragons are the symbol of power and dragons are certainly the most important factor, although agree not the only one.
  4. Few fault Ned for wanting Jorah dead and Jorah is disgraced for what he did. Barristan for example doesn't really reproach Dany for how she handles the slavers, which show Barristan did quite a few times. Even someone as cruel as Victarion is appalled by it. I think only dudes like Tyrion or Euron would be so... open minded to different cultures.
  5. I don't think the Westerosi will care one bit about slave retribution. Then again, there always will be the Tyrion's of the world.
  6. Are you so sure about that? JonCon never says that what he does say is that Summer Islander's one is superior but that's also stated in the World book. Haven't you thought that maybe this is like it is in planetos? That much is true but Dothraki are used to them too and know how to adapt. Does he? He's well aware of the importance of armour and he literally kills a bloodrider for mocking it. This is fiction. None of that is true. Westerosi infantry isn't only peasant rabble, it is mostly peasant rabble. In army 30k army, 18-18k of it is peasant rabble. But we do see plenty of times Lords conscripting peasants. Tywin's second army is made of rabble he's gotten from Lannisport, we're told they were half their training before Robb fell upon them, Borros Baratheon bolsters his own levies from levies from Flea Bottom, Lyonel Hightower couldh ave done the same in Oldtown if he wanted to keep the war going etc etc etc. Notrh, Iron Island, Vale and Westerlands are in fact 2/3 of the continent. And those are Realms Aegon cannot possibly conquer or let alone hold. Not you going by population. Because of plot? Not because she actually doesn't have the means or willpower to do so. You truly are doubling down in population, a new factor you have brought up because you have realized the impossibility of him actually controlling the whole continent. It's as if i say that Tyrion would never control the Westerlands and you say, well he'd control Lannisport so by population... he'd control half ofthe Westerlands... Bro, don't be silly. Well they do but more importantly, Aegon has few to none ways of reaching them. No but the mainland won't have an actual fleet to invade them with in the first place. Are they? We're not told that, they are certainly not in their best shape but they are far from spent and good luck taking Casterly Rock. Curious you talk about the Riverlands instead of you know... The Vale. So you think a foreign army who has never step a single foot in the North, and no hope of getting past the Neck in the first time, has actually a chance to not getting kissed by autumn let alone winter. No, no southern warlord is taking his chances to have half their men dying in the North. Sure it is but it is neither spent nor they have any real reason to start paying taxes back. And with the snow already falling, crossing the Bloody Gate is becoming a tad impossible, so they are quite isolated. And you think Aegon is going to be named Baratheon? The Baratheons are dead or gone, there's a power vacuum and the last dynasty has been ruling for 300 years. So he doesn't have more legitimacy. If only she brought with her the ultimate symbol of legitimacy. May or may not. That's a tad unlikely to happen unless she decides to leave now, if she chooses to fight old slavers. But Dany is fighting slavers and that's something Westerosi will find endearing. One factor? Yes. The most important one by far? Also yes.
  7. What makes you say he isn't thinking straight? What makes you say everything he says is wrong? Given that the average soldier is peasant rabble i'd say he kinda does. It's completely inmaterial what Hungary could or couldn't do. We're told time and time again Westerosi armies are made of knights and majority of able bodied peasants. Cregan Stark, Greatjon, Meribald... Renly calls Stannis's army rable, Stannis complains that there aren't too many of them. You try to make a pun but then you yourself acknowledge that he won't control 2/3 of the continent he's supposed to rule over... You agree that he would King over most of the south and you call that peace... Iron Islands are irrelevant, in your mind, but their independent reaving ways sure aren't, the North is literally a third of the continent and the Vale does whatever it wants. Never forgetting the fact that the Lannisters are greatly beloved in the West and Casterly Rock is unassailable. So if you ignore the 2/3 of the continent Aegon would be simply unable to reach... He can "more or less" bring peace to the continent? Quite the statement. No, I'm saying that force of habit will remain in quite a few people. That force of habit is called legitimacy. You don't think anybody will be impressed with her disrupting slave trade? Huh. Were those the reasons used to justigy the alliance? Because what we read explicitly and implicitly mentioned her dragons. The Greyjoys want her alliance because her dragons. The Martells seeked her alliance because of her dragons. JonCon and Illyrio seek her because of her dragons. And a lot of people in Westeros will flock to her because of her dragons. It has absolutely nothing to do with either Aegon or Stannis lol. Yawn.
  8. Yes, I have. By a lying idiot who wants the best for Dany and doesn't really want her to die a gruesome death, by awoiaf by by... Septon Meribald's speech, one Martin is especially and explicitly proud of, presents Westerosi armies as mostly comprised by rabble and so does the rest of the characterization we've seen so far. For example, Cregan Stark couldn't send armies south because they were occupied with the harvest, Greatjon complains about something similar. Time and time again, we're told that they are in fact rabble. It's a popular conception because that's explicitly how it's presented no matter how you look at it. ???? This is a feudal society, Aerys power depends on his vassals. No one "had to obey him", they could rebel like half the country did or stay neutral like a good chunk oft he country did. If they were ruling over the entire continent instead of a fraction of it, i may be inclined to agree with you. No, he doesn't. He doesn't the numbers or the navy to subdue the West, the Iron Islands or the Vale and whatever else he'll never control the North. He very much can be king over most of the south but that's about it. There are only three people that could realistically hold the entire continent after the war started: Daenerys, Tywin and Renly. Dany is the one left with the power and legitimacy to subdue the continent to her will. Dothraki army or not. That's a plot related role, not one she's limited to given she'd arrive as a conqueror. Cause you say so. As of now she has more support and more formal alliances proposed than Aegon or Stannis ever had without actually being present continent.
  9. Fair enough, so she only has her massive army and dragons. Not a bad start. Fair enough, no i didn't read it. I have read your essay, i find it pretty meaningless. Armies are as good or as bad as plot requires them to be and as of now, the plot has presented the Unsullied as unbeateable infantry unit and the westerosi armies as mainly formed by rabble, no matter how much you disagree on that one. Sure it did, how do you think half the continent still chose to die for his cause after the stunt he and his son had just pulled? She'll offer restore the order after country fell to anarchy and contrary to Aegon she can actually achieve that. That's a hell of a sales pitch. Well i did not say that she'd be unquestionably supported and accepted by all. A sizable part of the country will however accept and support her claim, she has the looks, she has the numbers and she has the legitimacy. Hell, before she has even set a foot in Westeros there's two great houses going her way in order to curry her favor and offer an alliance. Because believe it or not, people like to ally themselves with the one with dragons. The idea that she won't have good support in Westeros runs not only against common sense but it goes against the very text we're reading. Huh, fair enough.
  10. A basic thing no peasant folk has questioned yet and they have complained about hunger a lot. They haven't really complained about foreign armies being too many for them to have any left to eat and half the kingdoms are occupied by the other half.
  11. I have yet to read about a Westerosi peasant making such high spirited questions. Dany has the power, the looks and the dragons. Aegon or not, she is going to have mass appeal. Not that Aegon will have the strenght to project sovereignty over more than 3-4 kingdoms anyway.
  12. Rumours spread by slavers and to slavers only consumption. Most Westerosi are incredbly xenophobic and anti slavery. They won't care much about what she does east except that she's fighting slavers. Peasants are not going to think that, nobles might tho. Yeah that is true. Having a huge army, being the last Targaryen and having at her command the ultimate legitimacy symbols in breathing dragons are more than enough reasons for a sizable portion of the country to support her. Dany looks the part, acts the part and has the most important trappings of power and legitimacy on her side. That she would be unwelcomed and struggle to find support would be the blatantly poor writing. There are cons to not support Dany sure and plenty of people will choose not to support her for that but the pros are so obvious and outweigh the cons by a mile. If only because simply opportunism, like the Greyjoys or Martells, that Dany won't have significant defies logic.
  13. Doubtful, Westerosi know the difference between freedmen and slave and by the time she goes west, the tales about her fight against slavery will have travelled west too. Very much disagree, she is way too powerful for that for that to ever realistically without plor related reasons. There's bound to be plenty of Lords who would flock to the Targaryen princess, this one legit, with three dragons and a massve army behind her. The Ironborn and the Martells aren't the only ones with half a brain. So you say.
  14. I mean everyone and their mother could see Jon was blinded by revenge. I think that Dany is a better leader, mainly because she's facing far more and has fewer allies and she is still alive.
  15. She was a cunt to her daughter and wanted to get rid of her in the most cruel way possible. Backfired but then again, almost all the matches she and her husband made backfired one way or another. She could have married her to Theomore's heirs but chose the one old enough to be her great grandfather...
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