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frenin

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  1. We do btw, Martin has stated several times that the Lannisters were as good as dead if he ever found out. With the show now being an undeniable hit... Does that mean they're going to go with more calm in S2?
  2. This is punnet square 101. Kids with 1/4 black ancestry and 3/4 white ancestry can be, and most likely are, white, not white passing but white. The telling part of the bastardry is the hair, not the skin tone, imo the meta reason for the kids beeing white is to laeve no doubt for the audience. Do they have Baratheons in their family tree? Afaik they do not, nor we're told those matches got reintroduced to the main line. They were random matches of random branches, which is one of the other reasons those characters are not going to ever come again. Yeah. Won't be that helpful if Arryn decides to come with his Westerosi version of Maury program. That Robert had sex with her doesn't mean that he's the father, especially if there's circumstantial evidence pointing out the contrary. This in an inference we the readers can make. Laenor was gay and wasn't that interested in Rhaenyra, so they'd be only together a few few times to get children, or as Murmison puts it to eat fish. I'd say that if the Greens had conducted an investigation properly, they could have proved that the children couldn't be Laenor's. They used it as a slander tho, so those who didn't care or didn't stand to gain anything from it, which as things stood were everyone in the Realm but Alicent's kids and Vaemond Velaryon simply dismiss it.
  3. Sure they did and that's why no one suspected a thing for 13 years. Once they start investigating and concluding it's not really possible for a Baratheon to have Lannister looking kids, especially if Jon Arryn just like Varys is tracking down Robert's bastards in the city and realizing he's just fathering clones of him. Saying that he doesn't have conclusive evidence is just blatantly untrue. There's nothing Cersei can use as excuse to save herself from Robert, Rhaenyra did have that, even if admittedly is flimsy, that's also the reason of the treatment each children receives. There's also the fact that the children were acknowledged by Laenor even after the rumours of bastardry arose, had Robert heard about thte bastardry and still decided to claim the children as his, well tough luck Stannis.
  4. No, but the Rhaeny's feats, as Aemma's, gives people the liberty to dismiss the argument, that is how people like Eustace dismiss it when they are not particularly pro Rhaenyra. Which is the point, the kids were def bastards but there's enough wiggle room, so the only argument of the bastardry is that they do not look like the parents, which although is fair in this case it's a bad bad argument overall. No wonder it was dismissed and most people didn't actually care about the paternity. Martin had Laenor live in a different castle from Rhaenyra to make it incredibly obvious for the readers, but in universe, Laenor and Rhaenyra living separately is not impediment from the having sex every once in a good while. Robert rose in self defense, he didn't take the throne in self defense.
  5. Laenor is Velaryon-Baratheon. Rhaenys herself was black of hair, in the show she isn't which makes the kids not having blonde hair a deal breaker, so there's enough wiggle room for people to raise the concern and that concern being dismissed. No such thing occured with Robert. Eh, whether Martin is going to flesh those marriages or not is another matter. He wrote on purpose to make a point, the children couldn't be Robert's. That is evidence, Alicent and Stannis words are just rumours, treasonous rumours at that.
  6. Varys and Jon Arryn had the evidence of children came out all looking like him and the fact that thereh had been several Baratheon-Lannister matches in the past and all the kids looked Baratheon. It's a concrete proof? Not really, but it's solid enough to conclude the children are not Robert's and it's solid enough to convince Robert, and the readers. But it went beyond "this three particular kids just don't look like you". Like Stannis or Alicent.
  7. Tbf, no, Stannis does not any proof. Both Varys and Jon Arryn did have conclusive evidence about Robert not being the father, Stannis had none. Children not looking like the parents is no proof of bastardry, on that much Viserys is right. A couple like Laenor and Rhaenyra can perfectly have white kids, it's not even unlikely, what gives the barstardry away is the hair, much like Cersei's children. But that they look nothing alike the parent is not very indicative of much.
  8. Except when it comes to the Strongs bastardy it is. Where in fact, most do not actually care. Cersei's children aren't royal blood whereas Rhaenyra's are.
  9. My point exactly. You can deal with traitors but just killing relatives for the fear of it is being Maegor mad. Daeron gave it a chance cause well, we're talking about his brother. Btw and again, Jaeharys called the Great Council because war was obvious, as in both sides were preparing themselves for war. Had it not been that obvious, Jaeharys would have crowned Viserys and told Rhaenys to fuck off. As Viserys planned on doing. Viserys didn't call a Great Council or made the Lords renew her vows to her because Rhaenyra had been the unquestioned heir for decades and the Realm had grown used to it. It was a matter of his sons not stirring the pot. And that is where he failed. There was a good need to remarry. Rhaenyra was 6-10 then? She could have died. Rhaenyra needed spares, it's common sense. As things stood, her spare was Daemon.
  10. Sure but the actions of the Realm goes against the narratve both in and out of universe that the Realm cared enough about the bastardry of the children. Jace wouldn't get the support of two kingdoms nor Luke would be given the hand of a Baratheon girl if they cared about it, either during the Dance r in the regency, this is never addressed.
  11. It is funny that no one but the Greens at Court and Vaemond Velaryon ever called them bastards. Like Jace goes to Winterfell, the Eyrie and White Harbor, no one calls him bastard or suspects him because he's a bastard, Luke goes to Storm's End and Borros tells him that if he wants his allegiance he gotta marry his daughter. Those who rose for Aegon did either because they believed in salic law or because they had connections to him. For all the doom and gloom Rhaenyra had twice the support her brother had. So either people really didn't believe in the bastardry or they didn't give a single fuck about it.
  12. One dragon, however big is not going to do much against a pack of them. Rhaenyra doesn't have plenty of reasons Aemond isn't going to suffer her sons on the Throne. Aemond himself asks whether he should bent to Rhaenyra or Aegon is King And the latter part... I just didn't understand it. I'm sorry but Sara Snow didn't actually exist in the books.
  13. It's a hypothetical. Aerea was obviously not going to try and wrestle the Throne anyway. It's obvious that it's a hypothetical because non of those things or were likely to happen. Did she? Why? Because of the eye? Rhaenyra herself wasn't wary of him. Hell, by her words she intented to give him places of honor at her court. Aemond himself dislikes Rhaenyra and her kids but he's pretty nonchalant. He asks whether Aegon is King or he has to kiss Rhaenyra's ass.
  14. That threat is ever existent. What if Aegon the Younger tried to usurp Jace? What if Aerea used Balerion against her uncle? What if Aemon and Baelon turned against each other? What if Daemon got really fed up and roasted his dragonless brother? What if the Velaryons took advantage on the fact that Daemon was away and striked against Rhaenyra's young dragon and Viserys? What if... At the end of the day, these people are family and the likelihood of them trying to kill each other depends entirely on how much they care about the other besides each other's ambitions. Rhaenyra didn't have any reason to believe her brothers would act against her and her brothers had every reason to know that trying to take the throne from her was the one thing guaranteed to make her strike. But at the end of the day, the Greens, and by Greens I mean Cole, Alicent and Otto, believed they were going to be killed because they would try to get the Throne and they would try and get the Throne because they would going to be killed. The solution to that circular reasoning is obviously not try and get the Throne... But they were not going to do that so...
  15. Neither sibling is indefense, they are dragonriders. It is quite difficult to weaponize a dragonrider who is not interested on what you have to say. The only danger there is... Well, if they get ambitious and try and press their claims but then, we're talking about treason, not paranoia.
  16. The blonde kids is not evidence of incest but it is certainly evidence of affair, i also don't know how Ned got to the incest either, when all of Robert's kids are coming out his way and all the matches in the pass came out the Baratheon way, something is amiss. Daeron is not going to appear, his arc seems to be mixed with Aemond's.
  17. Society accepts child rulers but when it came to Great Coulncils, they outvoted them for adults.
  18. I did not, what it says is that all the children inherited their mothers rivalry, then we're given a pretty clear reason why... If you become my bitter rival because you wany¬°t my place, i sure as hell will grow to hate you too. Btw, no, Viserys is not at fault for siring more chldren. All Kings should strive for an heir and a spare and as things stood, Rhaenyra's spare was Daemon. This is a medieval setting, Rhaenyra or her children could have died in a thousand different times, leaving the succesion back in square one. Having more children was not a frivolity, it was imperative to guarantee the succesion. And for all his faults, Viserys, much like Jaeharys with Baelon, had made his decision claear and everyone on the Realm knew where the succesion stood. @Winterfell is Burning Eh, more like his doubts about whether Rhaenys would capable, both as a ruler and as well, let's say it, a woman ruling. Jaeharys or his council don'treally mention that he has doubts that her granddaughter won't be accepted by society, especially because if Baelon didn't press his claim and supported Rhaenys... What are they gonna do? He also wanted Viserys to succeed him ahead of Rhaenys and her line, Jaeharys more than any king represented Westerosi society, so if society didn't accept her, well neither did he. @EggBlue Sure but in this case... it would have been as simple as not having their mother all but admit they are bastards... Like what's the purpose of that? Jace is heir to the throne, i does him no good knowing he's actually a fraud and a usurper.
  19. None knew it would happen, well none but the Greens who tried and take the throne and even then they attempted to deescalate the situation before Aemond made it all but impossible. Wars between different branches of a clan can always happen, it happened with Maegor, it could have happened between Jaeharys and his nieces and sisters or between his son and his granddaughter. Having a large family and different branches means that internecine conflicts can always happen, too many dragons are as dangerous as too few and all that. It doesn't mean however that it is either likely or the default situation. Could war happen and kinslaying happen with Rhaenyra's ascension? Sure, as it unlikely as it is there's always the possibility of it, was it that likely? Not by a longshot. Had they tried to get along as Viserys wanted, the odds would have been even lower, alas Alicent indoctrinated her kids into hating Rhaenyra and her sons. This man went after his own nephews, it doesn't really surprises that he killed his father and brother to get Harrenhall. Then again, Larys as a plot device is like Nymor's letter to again, just a tool to move forward the story. @Ran It is a weird direction, both that and calling the kids Targaryens and not Velaryon even before Jace took the throne, in the books the kids are sure and confident of their background, which meand that their circle kept the charade. I don't know what good it does to Jace knowing that he's a bastard, tt just gives him impostor syndrome.
  20. Why should he? So long as he lived, Rhaenyra was the unquestioned heir and everyone in the Realm knew that. The reason why Jaeharys called the Council was because both sides were openly preparing themselves to war. No such thing happens with Viserys. It's as easy as having Baelon or Jaeharys murdering their neieces or Egg killing baby Maegor. The difference between smooth transitions of powers and usurpations is that you don't really need to resort to killing your relatives to remain the unquestioned ruler. That is why Viserys can rule easily while pissing offthe Velaryons who are as rich as him and command more dragons than him. There's little reason for him not to expect the same thing for his children. About the episode, I'm torn about it, this and episode three are the ones that really felt like there had been an entire episode narrating the events of the ten year gap. I didn't dislike the episode but i didn't like it either, i was indifferent to it. The Velaryons are given as little screentime as Martin gave them, which i didn't like it in the books and i certainly don't like it here. Btw, I'm not against them cutting up the scene with Daemon and his daughters, after he just killed Rhea last episde, he just seemed a different person, it was bizarre. Larys... He's every bit as random as he was in the books, this is the one character I will refrain to judge one way or another. Btw, Rhaenyra all but admitting to her son that he's a bastard...
  21. Subscribe word for word. About the article, several fantasy shows have been aired ever since GoT ended, all of them trying to get the mantle without shame, they were all received with lukewarm at best when not outright distate. I normally don't pay attention to neither articles or opinions on youtube but this run with both RoP and HotD i have put my toe in for a little and yikes.
  22. You know where the money goes I guess. For me, so long it entertains me, which it does and it great manner, and does enough decent numbers to keep it running. Don't really care whether it comes first or thirteen. Btw. Trop isn't half bad.
  23. Funny how duty and obligations are optional depending on how he feels that day. There's little reason to believe Robert wouldn't have believe him. He could have told Robert privately. He could have informed Ned easily, he could have easily outraced Robert to Winterfell and tell Ned and confront the Lannisters in Ned's domains or he could have sent Davos to tell him the truth and there is little Pycelle can do about that. Sense of entitlement. Similar symptoms but different roots. The dust had not been settled, Robert was once a rebel and a traitor, so was Jaeharys. He keeps the largest army the land had ever seen well fed, well supplied and in high spirits while he besieges King's Landing from afar and watches his enemies tear each other to pieces making future subjugation easier. Oh we do. There's also some basic maths like Stannis had some 5k whereas the Crownlands commands some 10k levies, the City Watch alone are 2k people. It's kinda impossible to do. And even if by some trickery he does seize King's Landing, he wills imply not hold it, Stannis says as much. Not really, the Lannisters knew and stated that Robb's situation was pitiful by ASOS. If so, Renly wouldn't need to marry Margaery but we're told that Mace wanted a grandson on the throne. Ned was on the Trident.. Jaime thinks a lot of dumb shit, case in point while he was jerking himself thinking how awesome it'd be crowning a Targling and watch Robert's and Ned's faces, his father was sacking the city in Robert's name. After Whispering Woods and Renly leaves the city before Ned is arrested, Robb spends moths calling his banners and Ned was still alive. Pycelle and Cersei were convinced that Robert could set aside Cersei the moment he became really fed up with her tho. About the numbers issue, gotta quote Doran.
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