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Bernie Mac

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  1. How would that be hypocritical? OP is asking Tywin did not cut off Tyrion due to his lifestyle. For Tywin to be a hypocrite in OP's question Tywin would have had to have cut off other Lannisters for their lifestyle and chose to still fund Tyrion's. As is it Tyrion was treated like any other Lannister, allowed to spend their House's money as they please.
  2. True. I'm in agreement with you. Slynt is a deplorable human being. What's your point? True again. However Jon did kill other Watchmen, did help lead a bunch of Wildlings over the wall and did seem to fall in love with one of them, so as bad as Thorne and Slynt are, their suspicions were hardly unfounded about Jon's loyalty. We the reader know he was true(ish) to the Watch, it is understandable that others who did not know Jon as much as the reader does come to different conclusions about him. Sam had a bigger influence on him being elected. Sam does not interfere with the vote and we'd likely have had a case of Lord Commander Slynt unjustly having Jon executed over a trumped up charge, just like Jon did to Slynt. They'd both be in the wrong according to the vows of the Nights Watch though. Dude, did you not actually read what I wrote? I said pragmatically Jon was in the right. Just that it was not in the Spirit of the Oath of the Nights Watch.
  3. Yes we do. "As you will." Jon nodded to Iron Emmett. "Please take Lord Janos to the Wall—" —and confine him to an ice cell, he might have said. A day or ten cramped up inside the ice would leave him shivering and feverish and begging for release, Jon did not doubt. And the moment he is out, he and Thorne will begin to plot again. —and tie him to his horse, he might have said. If Slynt did not wish to go to Greyguard as its commander, he could go as its cook. It will only be a matter of time until he deserts, then. And how many others will he take with him? "—and hang him," Jon finished. It took Jon literally a split second to go from thinking off-putting him in a cell for a day to executing him. That is truly fucked up. Horrific. An abuse of power by someone getting even on a person who he hated and fantasized about chopping his head off even before he refused an order. Jon is getting to make the fantasy he had at the beginning of the chapter. Jon slid the oilcloth down his bastard sword, watching the play of morning light across the ripples, thinking how easily the blade would slide through skin and fat and sinew to part Slynt's ugly head from his body. All of a man's crimes were wiped away when he took the black, and all of his allegiances as well, yet he found it hard to think of Janos Slynt as a brother. There is blood between us. This man helped slay my father and did his best to have me killed as well. Pragmatically it was the right thing to do, Slynt may well have been a problem for Jon in the future. But his execution had little to do with him refusing an order, he was killed for what he did in his past life, before he joined the Watch, and what Jon feared he would do in the future.
  4. How do you figure that? "Instead he had squandered the last of their silver on a healer from the House of the Red Hands, a tall pale man in robes embroidered with swirling stripes of red and white. All that the silver bought him was half a flask of dreamwine. "This may help gentle his passing," the Braavosi had said, not unkindly. When Sam asked if there wasn't any more that he could do, he shook his head. "Ointments I have, potions and infusions, tinctures and venoms and poultices. I might bleed him, purge him, leech him . . . but why? No leech can make him young again. This is an old man, and death is in his lungs. Give him this and let him sleep." Aemon is a 102 years of age. There is no medicine that can repair his health. It was pretty much a death sentence sending him to travel from the Wall. It was Sam who stopped them from doing this. He did not want to travel while Aemon was ill. He was helping. He was earning money for the room and food. The issue is not that he was not helping, but that he was also using the money to enjoy himself.
  5. They have no idea if this army means the end of the world, like some in this thread suggested (not claiming you did, but others have). And I'm not sure he was there. He's not a ranger. Only 300 men of the Watch were there and Dareon, being made a Steward, may well have not made the cut. But even if he was, I'm not sure that means he thinks the threat the same as the reader does. Dareon clearly does not think they mean the end of the world; "No. I'm done with you. I'm done with black." Dareon tore his cloak off his naked bride and tossed it in Sam's face. "Here. Throw that rag on the old man, it may keep him a little warmer. I shan't be needing it. I'll be clad in velvet soon. Next year I'll be wearing furs and eating—" It is unclear how serious the threat Dareon sees them. The Wildlings may well be the bigger threat in his eyes. No worries. I was actually sincere, as I am guilty of that sometimes and it's a relief being in conversations with other blunt people as I worry less about my own words. Nothing worse than rereading what I said and realizing how dickish I came off. Barristan was not forced to make his vows at swordpoint. He willingly chose them and, as we see, the Kingsguard live a pretty charmed life. And this is a pretty weak comparison. Dareon has not turned around and killed anyone. If Barristan, in the Stepstones, decided that he was no longer going to serve the Targrayens and abandoned the royal army I would have no problem with that. None whatsover. And I think you actually agree. Otherwise, why would you have to completely change the scenario, from abandonment to murder? There are many reasons. If his daughter was found out to be willingly sleeping with peasants then that is going to look worse for any prospective husbands. His daughter, by being the victim, escapes with her reputation. Having a bard go around the Reach singing about how he banged Rowan's daughter is not something Rowan would want. The secret was out, they had been caught in bed with each other. The daughter or Lord Rowan himself, will have wanted to keep her reputation intact. I'm not sure that true. Again, pretty poor comparison. A massive gang rape which ended up in pregnancy is not the same as what Dareon did. The fact that you need to make these poor comparisons kind of suggests that you know your argument can't stand on its own. Ami was caught having sex. She was then made to marry a peasant, likely, because her options were severely restricted, much like the pregnant Lollys. They both appear to have been in the same boat after their scandal.
  6. He has no responsibility towards them. He knew Sam for a few months before he was shipped off to Eastwatch by the Sea and does not know Gilly or her child at all. And he did not abandon them, he was sent out to earn money for them because Sam made a decision to get off the boat. Dareon was using some of the money he was making to spend on himself. They had no wine. Dareon had promised to buy some with the coin from his singing. "We'll have wine later," Sam had to say. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "There's no more wood." Dareon had paid the innkeep double for a room with a hearth, but none of them had realized that wood would be so costly here. Dareon was expected to support these people he was not related to, not really close to all because Sam made the bad decision of taking them off the boat and would not find work for himself. And Dareon was supporting them, though he was also using some (maybe most) of the money he earned on whores and alcohol. I'd think him a much better person if he did was selfless, but I don't think any worse of him for doing what he did in Braavos. I personally don't think Dareon has any obligation to Sam, Aemon, Gilly or her child. The fact that he was helping them is actually a nice thing he was doing. Sam, confronting him when he was drunk and ordering him to go home, more than likely was the reason he quit. Sam beating the shit out of him is Sam overreacting in this situation. Dareon was the victim in that situation. Arya murdering him was also out of order. He is not bound by the laws of Westeros in Essos. She has no authority to be handing out punishments to such men. And the irony is her father was murdered legally in Westeros, if any characters should be questioning if the laws of Westeros are fair, it should be people like Arya. Sam and Jon were no better when they had sex with women. Drunk Dareon 'married' a whore who married all her clients. I'm 90% sure these are not official weddings. Morality wise I don't care that Dareon broke an oath he was made to have at sword point. True. He may have done. Which would make him an awful man, though there are certainly degrees to rape so degrees to how bad he could be. The fact that Dareon is legally paying for sex in Braavos suggests, though does not prove, that he is not a serial rapist or does not get off on the power aspect. But I'm not sure what this has to do with your argument? Would your position change if you were told that Dareon was innocent of his crimes? Would you forgive him of breaking his oaths to the Watch and abandoning Sam, Gilly and Aemon? We actually do. Had Ned listened to the word of a deserted Night Watch member in the opening chapters of the series the realm would be in a much better position.
  7. We don't know that, and Dareon sure as shit does not know that. You are mistaking the readers' knowledge on the Others, with the characters. It seems bizarre to me that readers constantly do this. Dude, I love the condescension. Yes, obviously I have noticed that. Daeron is no longer in Westeros, bound to the laws of that realm. His days as a slave to the Watch is over. Do you believe that people should be slaves to the Watch because that are the laws of the land? He had a great reason. He was forced to take those vows at swordpoint. Cool.
  8. Sam was the one stopping them from finding another ship as Aemon was too sick to travel. Dareon was expected to sing and earn them money to survive in Braavos. He was doing that, but also spending the money he earnt on whores.
  9. Needed for what? Jon wanted him to act as a recruiter, send more young men to serve the rest of their lives on the Wall. Why would he want to do that? And does Dareon even see it as an Armageddon event? Dareon was sent to Eastwatch and I'm not sure how clued in the rank and file are on about the situation with the Others. Nothing Dareon says suggests he was aware that an Apocalypse was coming.
  10. Well we know why Walder does it. His father was querulous and stubborn, with an iron will and a wasp's tongue, but he did believe in taking care of his own. All of his own, even the ones who had displeased and disappointed him. Even the ones whose names he can't remember. Once he was gone, though . . . When Ser Stevron had been heir, that was one thing. The old man had been grooming Stevron for sixty years, and had pounded it into his head that blood was blood. Tyrion is not going to be given work as a farmer. Perhaps as a steward, like Lame Lothar, is something he could have done had he been interested in working. Okay, one of the big misconceptions in the series is Tywin, Tyrion and the whoring issue. Tywin's got no issues with whores, there are whores in his war camp, brothels in Lannisport and Kings Landing while he was Hand. Tywin does not care about whoring. Tyrion is in his mid 20's, been whoring for a decade by the events of AGOT. Tyrion does what many young nobles do, such as Edmure, but because of his size he stands out more. Tywin may not have been pleased with Tyrion's lifestyle, but it was not an issue worthy of refusing him money/locking him up. What Tywin did have a problem with was Tyrion's tendency to fall in love with such paramours. He knew this was a weakness in his son and something that could be used against him when the Lannisters are fighting a civil war to keep control of the realm. Tywin becomes furious with Tyrion when he hears that he threatened the lives of his royal grandson over the safety of a whore. This, and not simply whoring, is what infuriates Tywin. Tyrion simply can not be trusted in his father's eyes at that point. Tywin is not going to cut off a Lannister for whoring, drinking and gambling.
  11. Jon could have married a noble. Walder Rivers married a lady from House Charlton. As the son/brother of the Lord of the North Jon could have had a very good match from the North. Plenty of Houses would welcome him as an addition to their Household or their daughter living with him at Winterfell. This is the kind of alliance Houses were in favor of. He could marry a nobles daughter regardless. You will notice one of the prime storylines not yet resolved is Littlefinger's betrothal of his bastard daughter to Harry Hardyng. Ned could not legitimize him. Nor is there any need for him to do so, he has five living heirs as it is. Ned and/or Robb could have given Jon his own holdfast. We don't know, but it may be to do with Lynanna's promise. Can't exactly guarantee his safety as a child if he lives at another Household. True. But Ned was a Lord, it was not his job to placate his wife.
  12. Where do you get that from? I quoted a person who said he was in his 30's. Which lines up with the description of the She Wolves of Winterfell. There seems to be a lack of an adult Lord in the description of those books. My argument does not at all hinge on that. If the Waynwoods were Stark cousins then Cat, who has interacted with Waywnoods when she was in the Vale, would have possibly mentioned that. Well yes. Any child born almost a century ago would be well over 16 in the year 300. Seems to be the pattern in GRRM's world. 7 children in a decade is perfectly reasonable. There are 8 years between Ned's 5 children. Then I'm not sure what your issue is. Right. Cregan/ Willem Brandon/Jocelyn Beron/Jocelyn's daughter Willem/ Anya blank/Morton blank/ adult Roland For Jocelyn to be Anya's grandmother that brach will have had to have bred quicker, by at least two generations, than the Freys, Starks and Lannisters. It just does not seem likely, which is what your argument hinges on. That somehow Harry was the likely heir in Robb's will, despite the fact that even in your own scenario he'd not be the senior male from the line of Jocelyn. I don't think that the case. Serena was married before her second husband. We don'f have a birth date for her or for her children, so I'm not sure how you are coming up with the ages of them. Sorry, please exapand on this. His House? As long as Robin's alive Harry is just the son of a landed knight.
  13. Yeah, I don't think Penrose buys into the idea that Brienne murdered Renly "If that is so, why is the Knight of Flowers not among you? And where is Mathis Rowan? Randyll Tarly? Lady Oakheart? Why are they not here in your company, they who loved Renly best? Where is Brienne of Tarth, I ask you?" Brienne had been living at Storm's End for some time before the series began, he clearly does not believe those rumours. In fact Penrose actually thinks Stannis is a bigger threat to Edric's life than Joffrey. "Nothing from Bitterbridge. From Storm's End, three birds from the castellan, Ser Cortnay Penrose, all carrying the same plea. Stannis has him surrounded by land and sea. He offers his allegiance to whatsoever king will break the siege. He fears for the boy, he says. What boy would that be, do you know?"
  14. Stannis has killed his brother, he is going to kill Robert's 'sons'. Penrose likely thinks Stannis is cleaning House, ridding himself of others who can lay claim to the throne. That seems to be the most obvious reason.
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