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Bernie Mac

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  1. Bernie Mac

    Westerlands Loot

    Capturing the mines does harm to Tywin and the Westerland Lords as it shuts down production, but the gold is not left lying around, it has to be mined and unless the Northern and Frey men actually mined for Gold it is unlikely they took much gold. They will have taken far more value in livestock than gold from the Westerlands
  2. Bernie Mac

    Why did Robb keep Edmure in the dark about his plan?

    The army outside can do that, I'm not so sure the garrison inside can. "Can we starve the castle out?" Ser Daven shook his head. "The Blackfish expelled all the useless mouths from Riverrun and picked this country clean. He has enough stores to keep man and horse alive for two full years." "And how well are we provisioned?" "So long as there are fish in the rivers, we won't starve, though I don't know how we're going to feed the horses. The Freys are hauling food and fodder down from the Twins, but Ser Ryman claims he does not have enough to share, so we must forage for ourselves. The Blackfish, who knew what was coming, had he sense to prepare. Other former Tully commanders, such as Edmure, did not have such foresight.
  3. It is not what they were doing there. Jumping ship would be jumping ship, not wanting Robb to see sense. They would jump ship much later if Robb refused to listen to reason, but they still wanted to give him the opportunity to do so. They only jump ship at that point because of his marriage to Jeyne. And yeah, most lords would back down from a war they can't win eventually, the Freys are no different to the majority of other Lords in that respect. GRRM is writing historical fantasy fiction, they are not NPC's in a computer game.
  4. Where is it claimed in the book that Robb had no option to say 'no'? You claimed he had no choice, this is not true at all.
  5. Bernie Mac

    Why did Robb keep Edmure in the dark about his plan?

    Where do you get this from? "Wounded and taken prisoner," Ser Brynden said. "Lord Blackwood and the other survivors are under siege inside Riverrun, surrounded by Jaime's host." Robb looked fretful. "We must get across this accursed river if we're to have any hope of relieving them in time." It can be taken by force. The Blackfish is more than aware of this. It is why they are in a rush to get to Riverrun in AGOT. Difficult, sure, but by no means impossible. In the past the Tully's have usually backed down or abandoned it rather than see their castle taken by force, but there is no suggestion that it can not be taken. How so? Is there an unlimited amount of food inside the castle? No it was not. The plan was for Stafford and Tywin to meet at Riverrun, trapping Robb in Riverrun. All the while, their cousin Ser Stafford would be training and arming the new host he'd raised at Casterly Rock. Once he was ready, he and Lord Tywin could smash the Tullys and Starks between them. Robb gets proactive, rather than be trapped between two hosts. Outside of it being the Riverlands capital Riverrun itself is not a particularly renowned castle. You are making it sound like Storm's End or Casterly Rock when it is nowhere close to that. No, he wanted to do both. Both Tyrion and GRRM make this clear. He is not giving up Kings Landing when he marches home, he is under the impression that he can defeat Robb and still return before Stannis is ready. "Both of them." Storm's End was strong, it should have been able to hold out for half a year or more . . . time enough for his father to finish with Robb Stark. "How did this happen?" He is not under the impression that he can not do both.
  6. eh? They want Robb to see sense, but they are still serving him, calling him King. Would they have stood down if Robb refused to be pragmatic, certainly, but they were giving him the chance decide. Once they found out about Jeyne they no longer give Robb that option.
  7. No, they were not. They jump ship the chapter they found out about it.
  8. Who do you think put the sword to Robb and made him be King? I'm happy to go over this with you, please quote from the books where Robb was intimidated and made to be King. Sorry, please repeat as I'm not sure what you are saying here. What ultimatum? Everyone present? Most of the Northern Lords were not present. Where in the books is it suggested that poor Robb was forced to become King?
  9. He crowned himself. If you are allergic to nuts and someone offers you some nuts and you eat the nuts and have an allergic reaction whose fault is that? Who was responsible for eating the Nuts? Other suggestions were made before the idea of Robb being Crowned was brought up, they were shot down, some by Robb himself. He is in charge in this situation, he does not have to bend to what others suggest. No. That is wrong, reread the chapter and quote all the bannerman who state they won't accept any other outcome? Either you are not familiar with the chapter or you are being disingenuous here. For starters only a minority of the Lords of the North were present, the majority were elsewhere and were not consulted on this. Secondly the Lord who suggested it, Greatjon, had a month earlier, before Robb had proven himself on the battlefield, made an actual ultimatum and Robb told him no and put him in his place. This idea that Robb was forced into it is a kop out. Yes it was. Others suggested following Stannis, others suggested Renly, some even peace.. Robb was not forced into any of those. The Riverlords, the largest faction of Lords present, wanted Robb to attack Harrenhal and expel the Lannisters from the Riverlands, he said no to that. You are truly taking away Robb's agency. Robb had a choice, he chose the Crown (like many, many pretenders before him).
  10. No, you were not. No one forced Robb to be King. No one threatened to abandon him if he became King. Robb was not scared of telling, even threatening his subordinates to get what he wanted. He tells others 'no' in the same meeting. Robb crowned himself. Him not suggesting does not mean he was not responsible for it. Robb gets excused of everything by parts of the fandom. Cat, Edmure, Theon, the Westerlings, Lysa, the Greatjon, Rodrik, Karstark, Frey and others are constantly blamed for decisions that Robb makes. What Robb and Stannis do, complain about having to be King, is not an uncommon practice for people in power when things are not going their way. They act like they were forced to be at the top, that they had no agency in it and never wanted it in the first place despite the fact that they could have walked away from it at any point.
  11. Bernie Mac

    Why did the Freys torture Cat before her death, but not Robb?

    No wonder this forum is dying. People like yourself policing others on their opinions and constantly shutting down any conversation by claiming someone is a hater or fanboy and invalidating their opinion. This is not a politics forum, this constant need for some to act like it and only refer to people by the characters they think the person likes or dislikes is tiresome.
  12. Bernie Mac

    What should Robert had done with Reach

    Robert had not conquered the Reach, the Reach army was still a huge obstacle to him, as well as possibly the Dornish and the escaped Targaryens. It is not in his best interests to wage a war against the Reach by demanding major concessions. They surrendered when it was not in their best interests to fight, but if Robert starts demanding lands that is a whole other story. Even 15 years later Robert's position as King is vulnerable "There are still those in the Seven Kingdoms who call me Usurper. Do you forget how many houses fought for Targaryen in the war? They bide their time for now, but give them half a chance, they will murder me in my bed, and my sons with me. If the beggar king crosses with a Dothraki horde at his back, the traitors will join him." It would be idiotic Robert's severely depleted forces starting a new war.
  13. Bernie Mac

    Why does Balon Greyjoy want to attack the North?

    As could have Balon. He's patient, he was good to wait a year for Winterfell, he may have waited even longer for other parts of the North. No, not really. But he could have done, as many conquerors did in history they made deals with the local Lords, made compromises for them to be seen as rulers. It is not about taking every settlement by force, or even taking or having control of every settlement, but as Tywin points out, he had the capital, control of the West coast and enough land to be viewed as the King of the North. That is written in the book, said by an enemy not someone trying to argue for the sake of arguing. In the books it is accepted by some factions that Balon was the King in the North. I get that a lot of fans are angry that the Ironborn attacked the North, but ultimately he was successful. It was the correct choice for him to make. No, he started negotiations because he was in a position to get something from the Crown. He had something to trade and the Small Council at the time was in favor of accepting his terms. Both Mace and Redwyne were happy to accept his terms. Unfortunately for Balon Roose had already made a deal with Tywin first.
  14. Bernie Mac

    Why does Balon Greyjoy want to attack the North?

    He wanted more land, he does not have to rule every blade of grass in the North to call himself ruler of the North. Robb is called King of the Riverlands by his followers, at no point did he rule all of the Riverlands, Joffrey was still called the king of Westeros despite various parts of him rebelling. "He ought to be offering fealty," snapped Cersei. "By what right does he call himself king?" "By right of conquest," Lord Tywin said. "King Balon has strangler's fingers round the Neck. Robb Stark's heirs are dead, Winterfell is fallen, and the ironmen hold Moat Cailin, Deepwood Motte, and most of the Stony Shore. I genuinely think you and others are quibbling about something that does not seem to be an issue for the people in the book or even our own history. William the Conqueror was crowned King of England long before he had control of England. Balons' primary goal was more land, we see that it is Balon who initiated negotiations with the Crown for peace, it is Balon who councils his daughter, his chosen heir, about the wisdom of putting aside a crown to keep a head. Balon and Asha's plan was always to have more land.
  15. Bernie Mac

    Why does Balon Greyjoy want to attack the North?

    Balon is pretty clear on the why; "Casterly Rock is too strong, and Lord Tywin too cunning by half. Aye, we might take Lannisport, but we should never keep it. No. I hunger for a different plum . . . not so juicy sweet, to be sure, yet it hangs there ripe and undefended." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Lord Balon rode over him. "The lords are gone south with the pup. Those who remained behind are the cravens, old men, and green boys. They will yield or fall, one by one. Winterfell may defy us for a year, but what of it? The rest shall be ours, forest and field and hall, and we shall make the folk our thralls and salt wives." It is not that complicated, the North has no Navy the Westerlands does, the North's army was over a thousand miles away from the North while Tywin was not too far away, the Westerlands capital was far more secure than the Northern capital, the North could be defended from Southern land attack via Moat Cailin while the Westerlands has multiple entrances into its realm and just as importantly Tywin was a known threat whereas Robb was a teenager. These are all pragmatic reasons why the Ironborn, loosely modelled on the Vikings, would attack the North. Predators will always pick a smaller, weaker target over a stronger one as there is a bigger chance of success.
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