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About dmfn

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  • Birthday 04/30/1979

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  1. @Alexis-something-Rose I don't just think you're right, I sincerely hope you are. GRRM introduced 3 POVs in Dorne seemingly late in the story with Hotah, Oakheart, and Arrianne. Not to mention Quentyn, another Dornish POV in Essos. And the whole time I was kinda like "so what?" Then he turns Tyrion's chapters in Dance into a long, boring journey that really took a leap of faith in fAegon to believe really paid off. Secret marriage schemes, failed revolts, dead POV characters, and weird Shrouded Lord dreams left me with a lot more questions than answers, and quite honestly feeling blah by the end. If you're right about Elia...that is literally a different story. I would be extremely disappointed if I spent so much time reading about everything that happened in Dorne if it yields zero results, which is what it would be otherwise. Quentyn failed. Arrianne is (I think) set up to fail. Even if fAegon is Aegon, he still has to contend with Dany and dragons, which puts Dorne right where they don't want to be. I'm now imagining three legit Targ claimants to the Iron Throne in Jon, Dany and Aegon. Coincidentally, there are three dragons. So, kudos to you!
  2. Touche' sir Tyrion fell for the same ruse, so I don't feel too stupid... But if there was deliberate misdirection, it served the purpose of nearly dismantling the "Southron ambition" scheme pretty well, temporarily blocking powerful alliances from tying marriage bonds. It could have been thought to be enough to thwart any further plans if not for Robert's rebellion turning out how it did (which I think Rob and company got pretty lucky, all things considered.) I'm running out of evidence for any more arguments, but the whole situation still feels wrong to me.
  3. OK upon re-read I may have not been as clear as I would like to have been. Yeah, I agree with you about parties traveling, and all of the back and forth. I wasn't envisioning any one on one note passed in the forest. I just meant that whatever the source of the account, it had to have been (at least claimed to be) an eye witnesses. Rheagar didn't send a raven announcing anything. And whatever the witness saw was reported in a way, directly or indirectly, that made its way to Brandon's hot head, and in a way that pointed him to King's Landing where he and his father were killed. You're probably right about Rickard and Brandon being part of the same party, maybe separated by a few miles or leagues or whatever, but they certainly ended up in the same place together. I feel like what gives us a reason to suspect that the message was nefarious are the results of what happened. We readers get two stories about Rheagar: kidnapper rapist, or greatest guy in the world. Arthur Dayne (a good guess for his companion) basically only one story: second greatest guy in the world. But the Stark men don't pursue the greatest guys in the world and Lyanna. They go get killed. What could possibly be an alternative to such a horrible miscommunication? *breathless loyal Stark party member and eye witness to the abduction runs up to Rickard and Brandon* "My Lord... (gasp gasp gasp) the lady Lyanna... (gasp gasp gasp) the crown prince... (gasp gasp gasp) he took her... (gasp gasp gasp)...." Brandon rides full speed to King's Landing with mere fragments of information and demands Rheagar come out and die? Of course not. Yes, this is a theory. But I think believing that whatever / whomever / however this information (I don't care about the numbers or physical interaction, raven, messenger, prophecy in a dream) was conveyed, it was done so in a way as to infuriate and mislead the Starks (I'll even retract Brandon being the intended target of the message, but he would be the easiest to manipulate going on what we know), given what little we know about those involved. But I would have to guess that there must be one person, one agenda behind the story that the Starks received.
  4. @Bael's Bastard When Rheagar crowned Lyanna QoLaB, Brandon was furious, and how many people saw that? It cannot be coincidence that Brandon was the person informed of the "abduction". It's no coincidence that we never find out who told him this. It is absolutely classic misdirection. And history is written by the victors. No other version of events (especially including TWOIAF) could / would / should dare to contradict the official story that perpetuated a civil war and usurpation of the greatest dynasty of Westeros. Whoever told Brandon knew as much as they did, but was unaware Rheagar wasn't in King's Landing? Whoever told Brandon told a version of events that resulted in threebLords Paramount being branded traitors. It is no accident that this person remains anonymous, and as readers we should recognize that for the giant waving red flag it is.
  5. Now Rhaegar sounds like Ramsey! I agree with you that there are 'signs' pointing the way you want them to point. And inconsistencies. Lyanna wasn't enthused about marrying Robert because he'd never keep to one bed, but didn't Rhaegar proove he wasn't keeping to one bed by being with her? Like @Sly Wren is saying, the truth is probably somewhere between the kidnap and rape story, and the true love/ prophecy / whatever people are wanting to believe story. All the information we have is either cryptic / dream / rumor / old memory, and on top of that we have numerous conflicting reports. I can't seem to pull your earlier quote about 'secrets too dangerous to share' but regarding that: We are certainly given multiple King Robert rants about how much he loves killing Targs, so we can naturally assume Jon is a secret that can't be shared. A little thought from Ned in KL, after he sees more of Robert's true side (bankrupcy, mis-rule, laziness, drunken, whoring, etc.) about what the 'true king' would do, or something, would be nice. Correct me if I'm wrong, but when Ned alters Robert's will to read 'rightful heir' he leaves in the part about 'comes of age' right? We're kind of lead to believe Ned is all about Stannis at that point, but Stannis is an adult. Jon, fAegon, Dany (other tinfoil Targs) also aren't adults. I don't think I'm biased one way or another. I like Jon for Jon, not whoever his parents are, but I just am not convinced R+L=J. He doesn't act like Lyanna (wolf blood). He doesn't act like Rhaegar (singing, studying). He looks and acts like Eddard Stark.
  6. Kidnap and rape is the official story, and Ned never thinks anything to the contrary. We're also told those blue winter roses grow in the greenhouse at Winterfell, and that they're Lyanna's favorite. If you want to impress a Winterfell girl, that's the flower of choice. If Lyanna had been a Tyrell, would they have been yellow? Or did the florist at the tourney prepare that wreath not knowing who would win the tourney or be the QoLaB? I don't about a 'myth' exactly. The dream is brought on by fever, and he is medicated. An 'old dream' could of course mean a recurring dream, or it could be interpreted as an old as in 'classic' dream, like a dream about fighting, loss, love, etc. Dreaming of flying is an 'old' dream. (Just an idea). Other elements of the dream are very 'dreamy' too...ghost wraith shadow companions and whatnot. I can't call it proof of anything much. And that's why there's a zillion tinfoil theories about KG members who are still alive. Lololol I was kidding about Ben, but his motives for joining the Watch and current whereabouts is a topic for another thread. At the end of the day I'm highly suspicious of GRRM's subtle clues, no matter how subtle they may be. I just finished my 3rd re-read with Jon's mama high on my list of things to look for, and still I just don't know for sure.
  7. @Bael's Bastard @Alexis-something-Rose ok, great. i mis-remembered the quote. but Ned thinks about the Trident, and Ned thinks about dead babies, and whatever else. he doesn't remember that time Rhaegar kidnapped, raped and impregnated his sister in any POVs. his only recollection of ToJ comes in a drug-endused fever dream. his primary memory of Lyanna is the promise. he doesn't really seem to think about Jon either, even when he's looking right at him. we get a couple other characters (like Jon Con and Barristan) actively thinking about Rhaegar years later. there has to be a reason that GRRM planted this line about Ned not 'remembering' Rhaegar, and like the OP said, I'm not 100% sure it's R+L=J. To add to my confusion: when Ned confronts Cersei in the KL godswood to tell her to run away for the sake of her children, she asks Ned what he would do for his own children. Ned considers all children but Jon, which even if he is just his nephew, he should probably still think about protecting him, since someone is insinuating a threat, and that someone had just mentioned 'his' bastard, so that bastard would also be included in a threat to 'his' children. The genestics thing continues to baffle me, too. There are Waynwoods walking around with Stark long faces in WoW sample chapters after generations of being removed from the North. There are plenty of half-Targs who manifest distinctive traits, and plenty who don't. And Neds own kids favor Cat, save Jon and Arya. Clearly Arya is supposed to point to Lyanna, and therefore link Jon to Lyanna. And we're conveniently fed a story about Lyanna's supposedly only sexual encounter in her life. For all we know Benjen boinked his sister, and got sent to the Wall for it. Obviously I see everyone's point, and have read all the clues leading to the RLJ conclusion, but in the end I'm not sure.
  8. The fact that Ned hadn't thought about Rhaegar in years is just as strange as him not dwelling on Ashara (to me)
  9. What did the Valyrian say to the annoying vegetarian?
  10. Why do people get so thirsty in Dorne?
  11. What did the King of Winter say to the whore?
  12. What's Jon Snow's favorite rock album?
  13. What did Craster say to his second wife?
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